N
Nigel
Active member
I like f91/92 Mullards in all slots.
MetalHeadMike
Well-known member
Definitely shows how we all hear things differently cause I just swapped between Tungsol, Chinese 12ax7, JJ, Bejing 6n4 square foil getter, EH 12ax7 and don't notice a whole lot of difference in a particular amp. Tubes just don't produce an inherent "tone" or eq curve to my ears. They don't have more mids, or more lows, or more highs. They always react with minimal change to eq or tone in various amps to my ears. An eq pedal in the loop has 1000% more tonal effect than any tube. Just my experience. You folks that hear specific frequency differences between tubs have far better hearing than I do.
LP Freak
Well-known member
RFT in v1
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Another good choice
Erock
Well-known member
shhhhhh
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
I think if you rolled tubes with vintage amps, you'd notice a much bigger difference. Newer production amps typically don't react as much as vintage amps to tube changes.
Greazygeo
Well-known member
I would think those later Tungsols would sound different being made in Chinese factory vs Russian factory. Materials must be somewhat different at the very least. Ruby tubes I never thought sounded as good as just the plain old generic Chinese 12ax7b’s, they must be the same tubes just specifically selected to whatever they look for. These Runy Hg’s were all I could score at the time so making due. They are ok.I was tube rolling a couple of weeks ago with my combo 2203 amp and I just happened to throw this new unused older EH tube that was in my stash into V1 and then popped in an old unused JJECC83 circa 2008/10 into V2 so maybe that is taming the brightness of the EH but I don't hear it as any worse than a 2022 production Tungsol that I recently got or the 9th generation Ruby AC5's I was running in V1 prior in the same amp.
I was running those Ruby 9th generation Chinese AC5's in V1 and V2 and they were definitely brighter. I also find my 2009/10 Tung Sols to sound better than the 2022 ones I got recently and that was disappointing so as with anything YMMV......
The NOS Tungsrams sound interesting for V1.
There are some vintage tubes that I am saving for vintage amps, but have been happy with these chinese in higher gain stuff.
MetalHeadMike
Well-known member
I tube swapped power and preamp tubes in a 79 JMP 2204 years ago Tom and didn't notice a huge difference tbh. I remember chatting with ya on that one. And also swapped in a 79 Mark IIB and didn't notice significant difference. Maybe its just me.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Ahh, I remember......that's maybe a blessing since you won't be falling into the tube rabbit hole anytime soon!
H
harddriver
Well-known member
I picked up two new NOS RFT's a few years ago to try out and I thought it was a little harsh for V1 and even the seller only recommended them for V2 and V3 in a Marshall. I pulled them back out and they are still sitting in my tube tackle box, maybe I'll revisit them.......
Two NOS I think I'd like to try for V1 is either Tungsram or Bugle Boy.
Two NOS I think I'd like to try for V1 is either Tungsram or Bugle Boy.
H
harddriver
Well-known member
I was off on the year of my newest Tung Sol's they were made in 2020 and they say made in Russia still. Did they move production of the New Sensor Tung Sols to China after 2020?
I've found the 9th generation Shuguang Ruby's to be good workhorse tubes but sometimes I like different characteristics in my V1 slots. Even JJ ECC83 were/are good workhorse 12ax7's in V2 V3.
The last time I rolled a bunch of 12ax7's for my 1969 Marshall SL build I wanted new production for V1 and tried alot of different new ones versus NOS from Tung Sol, RFT, Sylvania, GE's mostly longplates and found the 2009/12 Russian Tung Sols sound pretty close to Slyvania, somtimes the NOS longplates can get that plate ring which I don't like. I ended up running V1 Russian Tung Sol Ruby 9th gen Chinese V2 and NOS Sylvania V3 and that sounded really good wit no plate ring whatsoever.
In the end it comes down to what you like and or if the circuit needs something like a shorter plate to handle higher gain like 2203 or a Jose mod.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
IME tubes are the most subtle rabbit hole, but still fun. I had trouble hearing differences in the beginning too, but I kept doing comparisons in a lot of different amps and eventually my ears just learned to get a feel for the way they shape the sound. It also might depend a bit on what tubes you compared. I can see finding a lot of European or US tubes sounding very similar to each other, but if you for example compared a US RCA 12AX7 vs a German Siemens ECC83 they're such opposite flavors that I think you'd hear it. Not even just in eq, but in perceived gain too with some examples. Tubes never though were make or break for my experiences with amps other than just a few where changing from 6L6's to EL34's helped a lot or occasionally vice versa
MetalHeadMike
Well-known member
Rabbit hole fo sho. It's subtle to undetectable to me and not worth the money or time. Much more impact just using the amp controls (eq, gain, etc), using an eq in the loop, or swapping pups.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
It’s a deep, sometimes confusing/headache inducing and deceptively expensive rabbit hole that I recently realized still have a way’s to go since learning about some country’s factories I wasn’t aware of. No guitar guy that I know of has even scratched the surface of all the flavors in it, but Cdawg has taught me a lot about what are now some of my favorite pre’s that I didn’t know of at all before. For preamp tubes he’s one of the most knowledgeable I know
B
braintheory
Well-known member
I find it’s one of those things you just gotta get a feel for sort of like when I learn to appreciate certain music I couldn’t at first. It’s IME not the same type of effect as how amp controls, pickups, pedals, etc shape the sound. More subtle for sure, maybe not worth it, but also different I find different in the way it does shape the sound as are IME all those ways you mentioned of shaping the sound. Sorta like if for example you wanna use sugar, honey, maple syrup or an artificial sweetener to make something taste sweeter, they all shape the flavors of the ultimate dish differently and how obvious the differences are depend on what it’s being applied to and how discerning their taste is
B
braintheory
Well-known member
My favorites so far have been:
Mazda/Miniwatt silver plate triple mica ECC83 (by far the best high end of any tube I’ve tried so far)
‘50’s RFT (killer low mid growl, much better and different than the later versions most know)
‘50’s Tungsram (excellent uppermids)
Siemens E83CC (most musical, creamy midrange of the bunch and imo the best suited for the ‘80’s stuff most guys here are into and having the lowest noise floor is a nice bonus)
Still on the way to try them all are a made in Brazil, France and Australia (all Miniwatt labeled) ECC83’s and will see how the silver plate triple mica’s compare from the Madrid, Barcelona and France factories. Doing my best to be thorough in exploring all flavors, plenty left to try in the other tube categories
EDIT: also on the way a Telefunken ECC803S and Tesla E83CC. Hard to keep track of them all sometimes lol
Mazda/Miniwatt silver plate triple mica ECC83 (by far the best high end of any tube I’ve tried so far)
‘50’s RFT (killer low mid growl, much better and different than the later versions most know)
‘50’s Tungsram (excellent uppermids)
Siemens E83CC (most musical, creamy midrange of the bunch and imo the best suited for the ‘80’s stuff most guys here are into and having the lowest noise floor is a nice bonus)
Still on the way to try them all are a made in Brazil, France and Australia (all Miniwatt labeled) ECC83’s and will see how the silver plate triple mica’s compare from the Madrid, Barcelona and France factories. Doing my best to be thorough in exploring all flavors, plenty left to try in the other tube categories
EDIT: also on the way a Telefunken ECC803S and Tesla E83CC. Hard to keep track of them all sometimes lol
Last edited:
B
braintheory
Well-known member
The most sensitive amps to tube swaps I’ve had have actually been recent made amps, but I guess what they have in common is generally a more open, hi-fi sound and/or NMV amps (Ronin, Alessandro’s, Jamison, Schroeder) besides the Lenz’s strangely also being more sensitive to tube swaps
The other week actually I was comparing some new to me vintage pre’s to my benchmarks (my tunsgram, rft and Fivre (all ‘50’s versions)) in my 72 and was having trouble dissecting some of the differences I was trying to listen for, so I went to my Jamison J30 and the differences were more pronounced to me in that amp. I think rather than vintage vs modern, it’s whether it’s just a good or not good amp lol (but most recent amps aren’t great sadly)
LP Freak
Well-known member
Or speakers. That’s always been the biggest factor for me
Greazygeo
Well-known member
When the Russia / Ukraine war broke out, Russia stopped the exporting of many items. Tubes were one of them. New Sensor had to move all their manufacturing to Chinese factories. They are still being made in China. Pretty sure it was after 2020, my sense of time eludes me it seems
I used to really enjoy the tube rolling stuff years ago. Anymore I know the older china stuff will be good enough for me, so I just roll with it.
dead-pan
Well-known member
New production Mullard labeled tubes are actually really good.
Not the same as NOS but great in their own way.
Smooth up top, harmonically rich, full and quiet.
This isn't always my thing though. I generally puck what tubes I use based on the amp and desired result.
Not the same as NOS but great in their own way.
Smooth up top, harmonically rich, full and quiet.
This isn't always my thing though. I generally puck what tubes I use based on the amp and desired result.