Preamps vs actual amps

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nightlight

nightlight

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Just wondering whether there are any situations where having a preamp-power amp setup would be preferable to having the actual amp. Examples could be one of the highly regarded preamps from Soldano or VHT vs the full blown amps they put out.

Also, are preamps a wise investment in 2023? Looks like most companies have stopped putting them out. I guess that means there isn’t enough demand for them/they’re not as good as the real amp?

Or does it all boil down to the ease of transporting a regular amp vs carrying around a small sized refrigerator with rack gear?
 
Depends. At home levels, you can’t tell the difference.

I had an Egnater M4 preamp and Mod 50 head at the same time for this exact comparison and walked away selling the Mod 50 and keeping the M4. The difference came down to minor differences in the power section.

Also had a Mark IV and Triaxis / 50/50 at the same time. Rhythm green and Lead 2 green were near identical to Rhythm 1 and Lead on the IV.

You’ll hear that a head is going to be a tad more responsive and dynamic vs a preamp.
If you are playing out and at louder volume levels, you might tell a bit of a difference, but I really don’t think it will be much, unless you have an amp that really stands out like a Plexi or SLO.

I think a preamp / power amp at home or modeler and power amp is an ideal solution. Dealer’s choice for live work

The Friedman IR X is super intriguing to me as it’s basically an all in one for recording to DAW or sending to FOH (minus effects) for a super minimal sit and easy setup. Plug your guitar in and go, basically.
 
That’s good to know.

I have a Mesa Boogie Quad and a Recto Stereo power amp setup that I really like a lot. I know it is only 80-90% of the way toward sounding like a Mark series amp, but it has its own thing going, with the Mark preamp and Recto power amp pairing kind of cool in its own right.

I also have the entire system running in the loop of an Axe FXIII to sort out the FX side of things as well as provide me with an IR cabinet signal for the front of house.

But I only know this preamp and power amp combination, other than a shortlived experiment running into a Fryette PS-2 - just not enough power tube colouration. By that I mean, I've not tried out a whole lot of Mesa gear, other than having owned a Triple Recto and two Mark V:25s. So I'm hardly experienced.

I'm now gassing for a second preamp that I can run with the Quad into the Recto 2:100 to give me a second channel of sonic mayhem and perhaps allow for an interesting combination of tones. Will use a Radial Headlight to run into the input of both amps, and may also look into getting some kind of automatic double tracker pedal to give me the feel of two guitarists (albeit running through one power amp)

But before I sink any money into it, I'm keen to know whether I'd be better off parking my funds in an amp that does the whole thing better (i.e. the sum of the preamp and power amp parts is greater as a whole) or another preamp, which would actually fit into the workflow of my stereo much better. I don't really play live much anyway, but fools can dream as well.

I've got a few amps left after selling off most of my collection over the years, and am now looking to rebuild it. But the preamp bug has bit me quite badly after my experience with my Quad rig, it is just so damn good.

Plus, down the road, I see myself picking up another power amp of some kind, just for more flavours.

A different kind of rabbit hole, I guess. I was born far too late to have been playing in the refrigerator rack rigs era. In that sense, I think I'm a bit lucky in that I have an Axe FXIII to make this a lot easier for myself.
 
For me, the whole pre-amp thing is great because it allows me to build only a small section of an amp and then run it through the power section of my JCM-800 via passive loop.

This way, I can try a myriad of preamps & tones with out the cost/complexity of building an entire amp just to try something new.
 
Back in the day I used rack gear since it allowed me to mix and match rack units. I had ART, ADA, Marshall, Mesa rack preamps and amps, and a few rack effects.

Several years ago I got my Engl rack halfstack, with E530 tube preamp and E850/100 tube power amp which is powered by 8 x 6L6GC. I've used my ADA MP-2 and Mesa TriAxis with the E850 for something different. Also considered getting a Marshall EL34 / 100 monobloc power amp for awhile.

These days I prefer tube amp heads and even small combos (50w tube, 1x12) vs rack gear. The rack gear market is mostly used / old gear, few makers are offering new rack units compared to back in the day when rack was king.
 
I prefer preamps with a good power amp. Like I’d rather have the Synergy SLO and a Peavey Classic 120/120 than an actual SLO any day of the week. It seems to me the preamp versions tend to be more aggressive.

My E530 is probably my favorite Engl tone ever. More so than the actual Savage I had briefly.
 
Having the actual amps is better when you want the power section that the preamp was voiced for, and when you want the power section to influence preamp sag. From my perspective I don't think there are other benefits, unless there are logistical benefits to that form factor. A 1x12 tube combo has several advantages (and disadvantages) compared to a racked preamp/poweramp and cab, but at least some of that is situational.

I have an Egnater M4 and Randall RT2/50. I prefer that overall preamp/power amp approach. It doesn't mean my other amps are going anywhere though. Where you're decoupling the power amp from the preamp, I think a lot comes down to the design of the power amp. If I were a NMV guy, I'd probably stick with a conventional guitar amp.
 
IMO, there’s no better power section than the VHT/Fryette 2/90/2 for the music I play so when ppl say there’s this special mojo with heads vs pre/power amps I can’t relate. Any amp ever, if I run its pre through the 2/90/2 it’s an instant significant upgrade.

Regarding OP’s idea to switch amps with the Headlight, I don’t know anything about that particular pedal but at that price point I’d be surprised if it keeps your signal intact, so hopefully you’re not as picky as me about it. IME you have to spend big bucks to split your signal without squashing your tone. The Radial JD6 and JD7 worked well for me, I’ve heard good things about the Sound Sculpture stuff, Lehle did not cut the cheese.
 
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I have been considering going to a Synergy setup because of the stereo poweramp. I think stereo can really sound big at low volumes with a little stereo effects added in, and it is a pain in the ass to do with normal amp heads.
 
nightlight said:
That’s good to know.

I have a Mesa Boogie Quad and a Recto Stereo power amp setup that I really like a lot. I know it is only 80-90% of the way toward sounding like a Mark series amp, but it has its own thing going, with the Mark preamp and Recto power amp pairing kind of cool in its own right.

I also have the entire system running in the loop of an Axe FXIII to sort out the FX side of things as well as provide me with an IR cabinet signal for the front of house.

But I only know this preamp and power amp combination, other than a shortlived experiment running into a Fryette PS-2 - just not enough power tube colouration. By that I mean, I've not tried out a whole lot of Mesa gear, other than having owned a Triple Recto and two Mark V:25s. So I'm hardly experienced.

I'm now gassing for a second preamp that I can run with the Quad into the Recto 2:100 to give me a second channel of sonic mayhem and perhaps allow for an interesting combination of tones. Will use a Radial Headlight to run into the input of both amps, and may also look into getting some kind of automatic double tracker pedal to give me the feel of two guitarists (albeit running through one power amp)

But before I sink any money into it, I'm keen to know whether I'd be better off parking my funds in an amp that does the whole thing better (i.e. the sum of the preamp and power amp parts is greater as a whole) or another preamp, which would actually fit into the workflow of my stereo much better. I don't really play live much anyway, but fools can dream as well.

I've got a few amps left after selling off most of my collection over the years, and am now looking to rebuild it. But the preamp bug has bit me quite badly after my experience with my Quad rig, it is just so damn good.

Plus, down the road, I see myself picking up another power amp of some kind, just for more flavours.

A different kind of rabbit hole, I guess. I was born far too late to have been playing in the refrigerator rack rigs era. In that sense, I think I'm a bit lucky in that I have an Axe FXIII to make this a lot easier for myself.
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I think the guitarist for Offspring Noodles used a Quad pre-amp at times
 
what I have done on a few instances is run multiple pre’s through the voodoo loop switcher (px8) I think it’s called and I can switch rack pre’s into a common power source for different sounds. At one point I was using an Ada, Myasnikov superlead, Myasnikov iic+, and a soldano Caswell. Power source was plentiful as well. So the PS100 is fantastic; the SD KTG2100, Mesa 50/50, soldano power amp. Now I’m using my Rivera TBR 1SL as my main amp and plug and play shit into it. The TBR is my “soul amp”. Well, for now.
 
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alund said:
what I have done on a few instances is run multiple pre’s through the voodoo loop switcher (px8) I think it’s called and I can switch rack pre’s into a common power source for different sounds. At one point I was using an Ada, Myasnikov superlead, Myasnikov iic+, nada soldano Caswell. Power source was plentiful as well. So the PS100 is fantastic; the SD KTG2100, Mesa 50/50, soldano power amp. Now I’m using my Rivera TBR 1SL as my main amp and plug and play shit into it. The TBR is my “soul amp”. Well, for now.
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How would you describe the SD KTG 2100? I have been looking at those the last few days.
 
The Synergy stuff is a game-changer. It’s just so versatile and gives you the option to get just about any flavor of tone you can think of.
 
Shask said:
How would you describe the SD KTG 2100? I have been looking at those the last few days.
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I’d buy it. I think there is still one for sale here relatively inexpensive. For the stereo sound and quality I would get it. I have no horse in the race so I cannot comment on the condition but mine is really nice. I use it still when I’m running stereo. There is something about the quality sound it gives. I don’t know how to describe. If my soldano power amp was stereo it would be king but it’s not. So I go back and forth between both
 
boltzthrower said:
IMO, there’s no better power section than the VHT/Fryette 2/90/2 for the music I play so when ppl say there’s this special mojo with heads vs pre/power amps I can’t relate. Any amp ever, if I run its pre through the 2/90/2 it’s an instant significant upgrade.

Regarding OP’s idea to switch amps with the Headlight, I don’t know anything about that particular pedal but at that price point I’d be surprised if it keeps your signal intact, so hopefully you’re not as picky as me about it. IME you have to spend big bucks to split your signal without squashing your tone. The Radial JD6 and JD7 worked well for me, I’ve heard good things about the Sound Sculpture stuff, Lehle did not cut the cheese.
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The Radial Headlight is an interesting pedal, I haven’t had any trouble using it to push up to three amps simultaneously.

Here’s the marketing spiel on the technology it uses:

The design begins with Radial's legendary Class-A buffer circuit to eliminate distortion and artefact. This is coupled with Drag™ control load correction to deliver the natural tone and feel of the instrument. From there, each output is optimized to eliminate the hum and buzz that is commonly associated with ground loops. A series of ultra-bright LED indicators provide visual status feedback for the active outputs and mute function. The Headlight is made from 14-gauge steel to ensure the protection against outside stress. This also shields the inner workings from external magnetic fields. Power may be supplied by any standard 9V PSU (not included) or by a typical multi-pedal power brick.

And here’s a pic to get an idea of the controls:

IMG_3462.jpeg


But I get what you mean, and I am entirely unsure if this box is colouring my guitar tone. I’ll try to do an A/B comparison to see how it does in a real world test.
 
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Great, this thread is giving me GAS for an Axe-Fx rack... using it for effects and preamps, with my E850 power amp into my pair of Engl PRO E212VHB cabs....

thanks, OP. :doh:
 
rsm said:
Great, this thread is giving me GAS for an Axe-Fx rack... using it for effects and preamps, with my E850 power amp into my pair of Engl PRO E212VHB cabs....

thanks, OP. :doh:
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Always happy to facilitate GAS, though the symptoms will get worse and worse bwahaha
 
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nightlight said:
Just wondering whether there are any situations where having a preamp-power amp setup would be preferable to having the actual amp. Examples could be one of the highly regarded preamps from Soldano or VHT vs the full blown amps they put out.

Also, are preamps a wise investment in 2023? Looks like most companies have stopped putting them out. I guess that means there isn’t enough demand for them/they’re not as good as the real amp?

Or does it all boil down to the ease of transporting a regular amp vs carrying around a small sized refrigerator with rack gear?
Click to expand...

People stopped buying preamps and rack rigs in the mid 90s when the vintage stuff became the hot ticket and stereo sound seemed too impractical, it's basically just fashion and not really related to the sound. I would say that rack rigs got a bad rep mainly because of people not knowing how to wire them up by themselves, stacking up low quality digital conversions in series instead of doing the proper Bradshaw-style routings.

But they're definitely not wise investments in 2023, since every piece if gear is at an all-time high at this point.
 
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