Q&A with multi-platinum rock producer Michael Wagener.

[petejt]

Damn I missed this!


What I would have liked to ask- is what was the specific recording process & guitar setup for Metallica's song The Thing That Should Not Be? There's some odd phasey swirling/modulation on the rhythm guitar tracks I think- is that true?

petejt

I did not record MoP, just mixed it, so I can't attest to what happened during recording. The swirly sound you hear is a Lexicon Prime Time 93 (the older gray colored ones with the Jellybean looking sliders). I used those a lot for phasing/flanging type sounds. hey can be very subtle but still effective in thickening a sound. This one was also used on "Balls To The Walls", which only had two rhythm guitar tacks and then I added the Lex in the choruses to make it bigger.

Thanks very much Michael for answering my question! I'm very grateful that you are here as well, thank you.

Since posting my question, I have learned that there were six rhythm tracks per song, including a track where only notes on the bottom string were played. During mixing, did you process all six tracks with the Prime Time 93 for The Thing That Should Not Be? Or just one or two of them?
Was the unit used for just parts of the song (e.g. main riff) or the whole way through the song?
I could get more specific with Delay Time values etc. but don't want to burden you too much! I'm glad enough that you're even here!

And, did you use the Prime Time 93's phase/flange effect on any other rhythm tracks within the other songs on that album?
For example the bass 'synth' sounds at the start of Damage Inc. sound 'flangey' to me, but was it already flanged prior to mixing? Or did you use the Prime Time 93 for that as well?

Thanks again mate, and I hope you have a great Easter long weekend.

 

[petejt]

Haha, I've got more questions!

Michael, have you ever used the Roland SDD-320 Dimension D for vocal & other instrument processing? If so, what musicians have you used it with? And have you used the Dyno My Piano/Dytronics Tri-Stereo Chorus unit as well, for both vocals/guitars/whole mixes?

 

[Anonymous]

Michael,

It's a real honor to have you here...........................

Greg

What I do is, record a bit of a DI track, loop it and real-amp it through the MW-1 into an amp at very low volume, but with a distorted signal (master volume amp) Then, listening to Isolation headphones, I take a microphone, most likely a Royer R-121 and move it around the cabinet, close to the speaker to find the sweet spot for that particular speaker, hard to explain, but easy to hear. It is most likely different for each speaker/mic combo. Then I take a second mic, preferably a condenser (like the Groove Tubes Convertible or Sterling ST31 as it is sold at GC) switch the polarity and listen to the two mics in mono in my headphones. Now move the second mic back and forth in front of another speaker until you hear the most cancellation in your headphone. It will never cancel all the way, but you can get close. Secure the mic in that position and you will have minimal phase cancellation between the two mics.

I am not an acoustician (?), but it seems with your room setup (with all the insulation) you enhance the low end response by eating up the reflections. You might want to consult an acoustic person on this. I have a pretty reflective and open room with the speakers sitting right on the floor (concrete) and I never have low end problems

wow. thanks SO much for this...absolutely cuts down the learning curve for guys like me SOOOO MUCH.

for recording, what can you recommend in the way of converters, or are they built in? as you had said earlier, an important part of DAW recording is the conversion process...paraphrasing of course.

also,

.............
I love the Tourmaster as well, totally different beast from the Splawn, but the two are very complimentary. Haven't worked much with the Renegade, but I like the little Tweaker and the Rebel 30 very much too. I also use the M4 with the modules, all great stuff. If the Splawn has the Rock, The Egnater has the soul.

i own a tourmaster, and absolutely LOVE it...like you said, it's very versatile and very underrated.
What channel are you using most, and how is it dialed in? are you using the power grid, or leaving that set wide open?

Thank you

Yeti.

 

[Ian Egnater]

This is great that you are doing this Michael and taking time out of your busy schedule. Thanks to Lugo too for talking you into it.

I'm happy to see you like your Splawn Quick Rod. I'm sure Scott Splawn would be glad to know that as well. Has anyone we would recognize use the Splawn lately?

I saw you reference the Egnater Tourmaster a few times. Have you tried the Renegade and do you have any thoughts on it? I ask because I liked the Renegade better and really dug its tube swapping capability and channel switching.


Thanks again

I love the Quick Rod, but I don't own one yet. I borrowed it from my friend Scott Moore for a few sessions.

I love the Tourmaster as well, totally different beast from the Splawn, but the two are very complimentary. Haven't worked much with the Renegade, but I like the little Tweaker and the Rebel 30 very much too. I also use the M4 with the modules, all great stuff. If the Splawn has the Rock, The Egnater has the soul.

We've never met Michael, but my dad speaks highly of you all the time. I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words about our gear!

 

[rokker]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for offering to help us here on the Rig Talk forum. We are real glad to have you here.

Is there a specific manufacturer of metal picks you suggest? They can be a bit hard to find. I personally love them and currently only have one and would like to get some more....most music stores don't carry them for fear of damaged strings/instruments.

Thanks again oh mighty great one!

 

[rupe]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for offering to help us here on the Rig Talk forum. We are real glad to have you here.

Is there a specific manufacturer of metal picks you suggest? They can be a bit hard to find. I personally love them and currently only have one and would like to get some more....most music stores don't carry them for fear of damaged strings/instruments.

Thanks again oh mighty great one!

http://drguitarpicks.com/stainless.html

 

[rokker]

Thanks Bill!
Will order some of the stainless and bronze right now!

 

[Sh0ckwave]

Hi Michael, great to chat with you. George Lynch is my main influence and I am much like him in the fact that I am constantly tweaking my tone. My question is what pedals did George use mostly on all the Dokken Albums you worked on? I hear a bit of chorus, but can't make out if there's a flanger in use or not. I don't have my Ampeg half stack anymore so I'm using a Peavey Soloist 112 solid state amp, and trying to replicate that Lynch tone is some tough business with my equipment.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

The Bock will set you back a cool $6.6k (on sale at sweetwater) is it really that good?

I have a Bock/Soundelux ELUX251 (one of the first ones made), and I absolutely love it, yes it is absolutely worth what it costs. I tried the 5 zero 7 and I wasn't too crazy about it, but there might have been something wrong with it, I heard it went in for repair after we had it on the session.

My absolutely favorite for acoustic (and vocals) is the Lucas CS-1, not sure if they are still available, because they only made a certain amount. I am looking forward to hearing the Lucas CS-4, but I am not sure if my wallet wants me to go there...

Thanks Michael, given your success, what factors do "you" weigh when considering making an investment to upgrade the arsonel of amazing gear and equipment you currently own? As I mentioned before, there is so much hit and miss in matching up the chain from Mic to cable to Pre to board, or not to board, whether to run stereo, etc. You can obviously own about anything related to recording you desire under the sun or certainly have access to it, the CS-4 for instance, what about it excites you to want one? What would you couple it to and what would it take for you know if you made a sound investement or not...sorry for the unintentional pun

Looks like Lucus Microphones are offering the second batch of 100 @ $4500, thats still $2100 less than the Bock.

Thank you sir and I look forward to hearing when your DVD will be available.
Jimmie

Jimmie

it's totally down to if it is useful to me or not, does it give me something that other mics (or gear doesn't, is it a special sound that nobody else can get me (like the ChandlerLimited gear) or is it just something new that might be a great addition to my studio. The CS-4 (and also the CS-1) just sounds amazing. Now that is what I feel about it, your might have a different idea, that's why it is important to check out the gear yourself at your studio. I have heard set of mic pres at somebody elses studio that I liked some of and when I tested the same group (actually the same units) at WireWorld I liked other mic pres better. Weird stuff, but it makes our "job" very interesting.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael, I've been following this thread since the beginning so I hope i am not repeating something someone else has asked and that it is just escaping me. I have a quick question with regards to tracking and mixing guitars and vocals. I'm thinking big 80's rock sounds here and was hoping you could help out:

1. Say you have two guitars in a band. Do you capture multiple takes of each guitar via diff cabs and mics and then mix 2 or 3 sounds that you like down into one guitar track and then pan that one guitarist left and the other one right? Do you use any phasing tricks here or is it simply make a copy of a track and delay it to make it sound bigger?

2. For vocals, along the same lines, do you tend to prefer voice doubling and panning or do you use a straight up copy of a particular passage of a song and just offset the time and add effects?

The problem with a lot of home recordings is that they just don't sound huge enough to me. When I listen to Lynch Mob's Wicked Sensation for example, I hear more than one cab blended into the main tone. I'm looking for ways to fill out the vocals and fill out the guitars.

Thanks!

1. No. For each player I would track one take in a combination of different amps/cabs with different mics, and mix them all to one track. So I end up with one main Rgtr track per player. The delay thing only works sometimes and I rather have two players play one good take each.

2. I like to have one track for lead vocals. Doubling, especially by the same singer, takes away the details of the voice. In choruses I think Harmonies sang by another person are nice to bring up the energy. All this depends, of course, on the specific song, singer, or the result you're looking for, no rules in general.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael.
Thanks for all your answers. I also enjoyed your old thread over at gear slutz.
I have a question about production. I recently had a bad experience with a producer. He has a name in the fusion instrumental guitar genre and a small following and I had an opportunity to work with him, so I took it. My music was instrumental, but ranged from jazz to rock and folk

I quit after the first hour with him, however, because he wanted to change the rhythm of every chord progression, riff or idea, as well as add licks and ideas of his own that I would have to learn, and he would change the melody rhythm and placement etc...
all in order to call it "produced"

In your experience, is this normal? (for music that is already well thought out,catchy, not showing off or drawn out)
Or is it more normal to leave lots in tact but add remove sections or suggest different types of ideas for some parts?

It would help me to know what a talented producer such as your self thought.

Thanks

In my opinion a producers job is to keep the band on track, not to change them, if they off give it a little nudge and bring them back on.. That said I would work with the band on arrangements and add my experience to theirs and their songs, but never try to change the style of the band. If I wanted to do my own songs, I would get my own band

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Damn I missed this!


What I would have liked to ask- is what was the specific recording process & guitar setup for Metallica's song The Thing That Should Not Be? There's some odd phasey swirling/modulation on the rhythm guitar tracks I think- is that true?

petejt

I did not record MoP, just mixed it, so I can't attest to what happened during recording. The swirly sound you hear is a Lexicon Prime Time 93 (the older gray colored ones with the Jellybean looking sliders). I used those a lot for phasing/flanging type sounds. hey can be very subtle but still effective in thickening a sound. This one was also used on "Balls To The Walls", which only had two rhythm guitar tacks and then I added the Lex in the choruses to make it bigger.

Thanks very much Michael for answering my question! I'm very grateful that you are here as well, thank you.

Since posting my question, I have learned that there were six rhythm tracks per song, including a track where only notes on the bottom string were played. During mixing, did you process all six tracks with the Prime Time 93 for The Thing That Should Not Be? Or just one or two of them?
Was the unit used for just parts of the song (e.g. main riff) or the whole way through the song?
I could get more specific with Delay Time values etc. but don't want to burden you too much! I'm glad enough that you're even here!

And, did you use the Prime Time 93's phase/flange effect on any other rhythm tracks within the other songs on that album?
For example the bass 'synth' sounds at the start of Damage Inc. sound 'flangey' to me, but was it already flanged prior to mixing? Or did you use the Prime Time 93 for that as well?

Thanks again mate, and I hope you have a great Easter long weekend.

There were two rhythm tracks per side and the "thickener" tracks, one per side. I don't think used any of 93 on those in that case, because there were already three tracks per side. The 93/95 are just used to "add" guitar tracks when there are only one track per side, as on Accept's Balls To The Walls, where I added the 93 to the choruses to make them stand out.

If I remember it right, I used a Marshall Time Modulator for that intro.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Haha, I've got more questions!

Michael, have you ever used the Roland SDD-320 Dimension D for vocal & other instrument processing? If so, what musicians have you used it with? And have you used the Dyno My Piano/Dytronics Tri-Stereo Chorus unit as well, for both vocals/guitars/whole mixes?

Yes use the Dimension D all the time still. Can't remember who all I used it on. Have not used the Tri-Chorus.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Michael,

It's a real honor to have you here...........................

Greg


wow. thanks SO much for this...absolutely cuts down the learning curve for guys like me SOOOO MUCH.

for recording, what can you recommend in the way of converters, or are they built in? as you had said earlier, an important part of DAW recording is the conversion process...paraphrasing of course.

also,
i own a tourmaster, and absolutely LOVE it...like you said, it's very versatile and very underrated.
What channel are you using most, and how is it dialed in? are you using the power grid, or leaving that set wide open?

Thank you

Yeti.

In terms of converters, get the best you can afford. I just heard the BURL Mothership and it sounds awesome, much more open and wider that other converters

Tourmaster: it differs from song to song, from track to track

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

We've never met Michael, but my dad speaks highly of you all the time. I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words about our gear!

Thanx Ian, your Dad is a great man and he builds some of the most amazing gear available, I am glad I had the chance to meet him.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for offering to help us here on the Rig Talk forum. We are real glad to have you here.

Is there a specific manufacturer of metal picks you suggest? They can be a bit hard to find. I personally love them and currently only have one and would like to get some more....most music stores don't carry them for fear of damaged strings/instruments.

Thanks again oh mighty great one!

No idea where to buy them now, I still got the ones I bought in the 80s. The one thing you should make sure is that you use a thin metal pick and also make sure you have enough spare string sets

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael, great to chat with you. George Lynch is my main influence and I am much like him in the fact that I am constantly tweaking my tone. My question is what pedals did George use mostly on all the Dokken Albums you worked on? I hear a bit of chorus, but can't make out if there's a flanger in use or not. I don't have my Ampeg half stack anymore so I'm using a Peavey Soloist 112 solid state amp, and trying to replicate that Lynch tone is some tough business with my equipment.

We used a Boss chorus pedal (blue metallic) for one of the 4 amps we had set up. Other than that we used only the amps for distortion.

 

[Jimmie]

The Bock will set you back a cool $6.6k (on sale at sweetwater) is it really that good?

I have a Bock/Soundelux ELUX251 (one of the first ones made), and I absolutely love it, yes it is absolutely worth what it costs. I tried the 5 zero 7 and I wasn't too crazy about it, but there might have been something wrong with it, I heard it went in for repair after we had it on the session.

My absolutely favorite for acoustic (and vocals) is the Lucas CS-1, not sure if they are still available, because they only made a certain amount. I am looking forward to hearing the Lucas CS-4, but I am not sure if my wallet wants me to go there...

Thanks Michael, given your success, what factors do "you" weigh when considering making an investment to upgrade the arsonel of amazing gear and equipment you currently own? As I mentioned before, there is so much hit and miss in matching up the chain from Mic to cable to Pre to board, or not to board, whether to run stereo, etc. You can obviously own about anything related to recording you desire under the sun or certainly have access to it, the CS-4 for instance, what about it excites you to want one? What would you couple it to and what would it take for you know if you made a sound investement or not...sorry for the unintentional pun

Looks like Lucus Microphones are offering the second batch of 100 @ $4500, thats still $2100 less than the Bock.

Thank you sir and I look forward to hearing when your DVD will be available.
Jimmie

Jimmie

it's totally down to if it is useful to me or not, does it give me something that other mics (or gear doesn't, is it a special sound that nobody else can get me (like the ChandlerLimited gear) or is it just something new that might be a great addition to my studio. The CS-4 (and also the CS-1) just sounds amazing. Now that is what I feel about it, your might have a different idea, that's why it is important to check out the gear yourself at your studio. I have heard set of mic pres at somebody elses studio that I liked some of and when I tested the same group (actually the same units) at WireWorld I liked other mic pres better. Weird stuff, but it makes our "job" very interesting.

Michael,

I realized after I wrote this, that it was an unfair question. If an engineer has the wallet to A/B high-end recording components in his/her studio, ultimately, that is the make or break between success or epic failure. I appreciate your willingness to elevate our understanding of what makes great music, however, for my request, it seems that the recipe to replicate a basic chain of components that work well in any given environment, isn't something that exists or is readily available. I look forward to your new DVD and thank you again.

Jimmie

 

[Mike Fleming]

Anybody know if this thread will continue? I can imagine Mr. Wagener is quite busy.
Thanks.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Anybody know if this thread will continue? I can imagine Mr. Wagener is quite busy.
Thanks.

Still here Mike, checking in about once a week.