Question about Adam Jones Super Bass ...

[FourT6and2]

I'm pretty close to running his exact setup. It's funny, most people chase VH's tone, I chase Adam's. I just gotta get my hands on a 4x12 with Greenbacks and I'll be set. Right now, I have a VH4 and a Super Lead that I just built. Haven't had a chance to crank the Super Lead, though. I built it to the specs Dave mentioned. It's a bit bright right now, but it should mellow out once it breaks in. I cranked it briefly, though, and I don't think it has nearly enough gain to cop the Undertow sound. I've compared it to the clips of Tool playing at JC Dobbs when Adam was running just the Marshall and it really sounds like he's pushing more gain that normal out of that Marshall. But, maybe it's just me...

 

[jsadctnfn1]

LOL! What's up buddy? The JC Dobbs show is a great reference point for the tone I'm looking for. Kinda why I was thinking that the HBE could possibly get me close.

On a different note, I saw Alice in Chains in Milwaukee over a year ago and they sounded incredible! The guitar tone was the best I have ever heard live and Jerry was using the Marsha for this show. This was the same show where Jerry has the Premier Guitar interview and talks gear (look it up on youtube if you haven't seen it). Anyway, I am pretty sure I can dial it in pretty close to how I want it. Shouldn't be too much longer of a wait till I place an order.

Oh... and where did you hear that Adam has Greenbacks in his cab? Just curious. I guess I always assumed he had a 1960 cab with either G12T-75's or Vintage 30's. Thought I read somewhere that Greenbacks are not good to be played with a 100W halfstack, as this could be bad for the speakers (too much power?), but that they were intended to be ran as a full stack with a 100W head.

I don't know... I'm not much of a gear head, just know when I hear something that I like.

I have heard some REALLY good Diezel tones, so maybe that is in the near future?

 

[FourT6and2]

LOL! What's up buddy? The JC Dobbs show is a great reference point for the tone I'm looking for. Kinda why I was thinking that the HBE could possibly get me close.

On a different note, I saw Alice in Chains in Milwaukee over a year ago and they sounded incredible! The guitar tone was the best I have ever heard live and Jerry was using the Marsha for this show. This was the same show where Jerry has the Premier Guitar interview and talks gear (look it up on youtube if you haven't seen it). Anyway, I am pretty sure I can dial it in pretty close to how I want it. Shouldn't be too much longer of a wait till I place an order.

Oh... and where did you hear that Adam has Greenbacks in his cab? Just curious. I guess I always assumed he had a 1960 cab with either G12T-75's or Vintage 30's. Thought I read somewhere that Greenbacks are not good to be played with a 100W halfstack, as this could be bad for the speakers (too much power?), but that they were intended to be ran as a full stack with a 100W head.

I don't know... I'm not much of a gear head, just know when I hear something that I like.

I have heard some REALLY good Diezel tones, so maybe that is in the near future?

A slightly modified 1959 Super Lead spec. circuit will get you Adam's tone: 0.68 presence cap, 0.68 cathode caps in V1 and V2, 0.022 bypass cap in V1b and 100k NFB on the 4ohm tap. That's it. You're done. Got that from Friedman. My amp's done and I built it to those specs. With the help of an oversized 2" Mercury Magnetics transformer, it nails the Tool tone. You could get there easily with a HBE or any other hot rodded 1959 circuit. But, that might be overkill.

I forgot where I heard about him using Greenbacks. But it was straight from someone who had worked on his rig. If you look at the Dunlop video featuring Tool's guitar tech and a tour of his rig, you can see the settings on his Marshall. The volumes aren't that high, so I doubt he's running into trouble with blowing speakers. Bright channel was at 11:00, normal channel at 1:00. Also, the JC Dobbs videos don't sound anything like G12T-75's (super scooped and shrill) or V30's (slightly compressed and fizzy). The tone is (to me) definitely Greenbacks. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it. I've just never heard V30's nor G12T-75's sound like that. But I've heard plenty of Greenbacks nail that tone...

In any event, this is my rig now!

 

[ericsabbath]

0.022 bypass cap in V1b

I suppose you meant coupling cap?

 

[FourT6and2]

0.022 bypass cap in V1b

I suppose you meant coupling cap?

V1b plate bypass cap. If you call it a coupling cap, that's cool too. I'm just going by the literature I have.

 

[ericsabbath]

0.022 bypass cap in V1b

I suppose you meant coupling cap?

V1b plate bypass cap. If you call it a coupling cap, that's cool too. I'm just going by the literature I have.

coupling cap comes from the plate too, but it's not a plate bypass
a 0.022 wired like that would suck the entire high end and midrange
a smaller value like 0.001 or 0.00047 would be common

a stock super bass has usually 0.022 coupling caps for both V1 plates
a stock super lead has 0.022 ("normal" input) and 0.0022 ("bright" input)

are you using 0.68 cathode bypass caps for both V1 sides as well?

did you install some sort of master volume?

 

[FourT6and2]

0.022 bypass cap in V1b

I suppose you meant coupling cap?

V1b plate bypass cap. If you call it a coupling cap, that's cool too. I'm just going by the literature I have.

coupling cap comes from the plate too, but it's not a plate bypass
a 0.022 wired like that would suck the entire high end and midrange
a smaller value like 0.001 or 0.00047 would be common

a stock super bass has usually 0.022 coupling caps for both V1 plates
a stock super lead has 0.022 ("normal" input) and 0.0022 ("bright" input)

are you using 0.68 cathode bypass caps for both V1 sides as well?

did you install some sort of master volume?

Yes, mine has 0.022uF coupling caps in both halves of V1. According to the literature I have from Metro, they (mistakenly) call them "Plate Bypass Capacitors." My V1a cathode cap is the stock 330uf. My V1b is 0.68. I have another 0.68 cathode cap in V2a.

EDIT: Metro's literature simply mislabels these. They are indeed coupling caps.

 

[jsadctnfn1]

A slightly modified 1959 Super Lead spec. circuit will get you Adam's tone: 0.68 presence cap, 0.68 cathode caps in V1 and V2, 0.022 bypass cap in V1b and 100k NFB on the 4ohm tap. That's it. You're done. Got that from Friedman. My amp's done and I built it to those specs. With the help of an oversized 2" Mercury Magnetics transformer, it nails the Tool tone. You could get there easily with a HBE or any other hot rodded 1959 circuit. But, that might be overkill.

I forgot where I heard about him using Greenbacks. But it was straight from someone who had worked on his rig. If you look at the Dunlop video featuring Tool's guitar tech and a tour of his rig, you can see the settings on his Marshall. The volumes aren't that high, so I doubt he's running into trouble with blowing speakers. Bright channel was at 11:00, normal channel at 1:00. Also, the JC Dobbs videos don't sound anything like G12T-75's (super scooped and shrill) or V30's (slightly compressed and fizzy). The tone is (to me) definitely Greenbacks. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it. I've just never heard V30's nor G12T-75's sound like that. But I've heard plenty of Greenbacks nail that tone...

In any event, this is my rig now!

VERY COOL!

... and about the greenbacks... like I said, I'm not too much of a gearhead, BUT I know Adam's tone is very aggressive in the J.C Dobbs vid. Good to know. Thanks bro!

So, you gonna make a Youtube clip soon?

 

[FourT6and2]

So, you gonna make a Youtube clip soon?

Maybe... I have to figure out how to record it so it's not clipped. This amp is too loud for my camera.

 

[jsadctnfn1]

So, you gonna make a Youtube clip soon?

Maybe... I have to figure out how to record it so it's not clipped. This amp is too loud for my camera.

Yeah, the Marsha IS probably overkill for someone who JUST wants Jones tone, but I like the versatility of a great Plexi in there also. I like to play some Zep, AIC, Sabbath, besides Tool and originals, and this amp covers some ground.

How about micing the cab, and just syncing the audio to the vid?

No recording interface I suppose...

... anyway, thanks for all the info, much appreciated!

and... I'll be waiting for the vid!

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah I don't have a mic or recording interface. Just a laptop with a built in webcam and my DSLR that takes HD video. Neither one can handle the volume of a cranked tube amp.

 

[charveldan]

Yeah I don't have a mic or recording interface. Just a laptop with a built in webcam and my DSLR that takes HD video. Neither one can handle the volume of a cranked tube amp.

Try with the camera mic slightly off axis.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah I don't have a mic or recording interface. Just a laptop with a built in webcam and my DSLR that takes HD video. Neither one can handle the volume of a cranked tube amp.

Try with the camera mic slightly off axis.

I've tried that. Clips hard. So hard.

 

[FourT6and2]

LOL! What's up buddy? The JC Dobbs show is a great reference point for the tone I'm looking for. Kinda why I was thinking that the HBE could possibly get me close.

On a different note, I saw Alice in Chains in Milwaukee over a year ago and they sounded incredible! The guitar tone was the best I have ever heard live and Jerry was using the Marsha for this show. This was the same show where Jerry has the Premier Guitar interview and talks gear (look it up on youtube if you haven't seen it). Anyway, I am pretty sure I can dial it in pretty close to how I want it. Shouldn't be too much longer of a wait till I place an order.

Oh... and where did you hear that Adam has Greenbacks in his cab? Just curious. I guess I always assumed he had a 1960 cab with either G12T-75's or Vintage 30's. Thought I read somewhere that Greenbacks are not good to be played with a 100W halfstack, as this could be bad for the speakers (too much power?), but that they were intended to be ran as a full stack with a 100W head.

I don't know... I'm not much of a gear head, just know when I hear something that I like.

I have heard some REALLY good Diezel tones, so maybe that is in the near future?

You know what, they could very well be G12-65's. Similar to the Greenback, only higher wattage. Just a thought.

 

[jsadctnfn1]

Hmm... I'll look into the scumbacks some more then.

 

[charveldan]

Yeah I don't have a mic or recording interface. Just a laptop with a built in webcam and my DSLR that takes HD video. Neither one can handle the volume of a cranked tube amp.

Try with the camera mic slightly off axis.

I've tried that. Clips hard. So hard.

I'm trying to decide between one of these for $300 bucks, or go the mic/interface route.

 

[jsadctnfn1]

Yeah I don't have a mic or recording interface. Just a laptop with a built in webcam and my DSLR that takes HD video. Neither one can handle the volume of a cranked tube amp.

Try with the camera mic slightly off axis.

I've tried that. Clips hard. So hard.

I'm trying to decide between one of these for $300 bucks, or go the mic/interface route.

While maybe not as high quality of audio as a mic/ interface, that definitely will be more versitile. Great, if you want to capture live music scenarios.

 

[Dale B]

That's a crappy clip I put together real quick-like with my 2203x that has a Metro board set up to Adam's specs. I have the LarMar PPIMV and the OT was swapped to a Marstran C1998. The channels are jumped internally.

Recording chain:

Gibson Les Paul w/ Suhr Aldrich bridge
Cable
Amp (forget where the EQ was, but I was running it between 5 and 6 on both the Norm and Bright Channels; PPIMV set @ 10:00.
Randall ISO cab w/ Celestion Vintage 30 (this cab sounds kind of boxy compared to my regular 4x12's, but it works in my apartment)
Shure SM57 off-axis just off of the dust cap
Metric Halo ULN-2
Logic Pro 9.(whatever the current version is)
Drum loop is some POS loop set to about 150ish BPM
Reverb is a Lexicon plug to give it a slight room sound on the main bus.

No post EQ or any of that junk.

When I run it through my Mesa 4x12, it pretty much sounds like his amp in the room.

 

[Dale B]

This clip is the same clip, but there is a tape saturation plugin running on the guitar parts and main bus. This was done after the initial recording.

 

[xXxGhotimanxXx]

This thread appears to be dead...but it's only been a couple months. Are you guys still chasing Adam's tone for Opiate, Undertow? Any luck? Any more info?

J