Randy Rhoads vs. Eddie Van Halen

[Chubtone]

Lets step back a little bit from the "spontaneity" of EVH's playing. A very, very large number of Eddie's solos were also composed. If we start naming a "best of" or "favorite solos of" Van Halen, I think many of them would end up with us believing they were totally composed or partially composed. They may sound spontaneous because in many cases, if you reduce the actual notes and licks he is playing to what they are, it is quite easy to believe he is winging those. In many cases, they are just very basic, stock blues licks. What is so cool about them is the tone, the feel, the fire and the passion with which he plays them. That is what turns some of those leads from sounding like something Billy Gibbons, Ace Frehley or Joe Perry or any other 70's hard rocker would play. Van Halen made many of those same licks sound like something way more than what they were. I am not talking about his signature tapping and whammy and trem picked or big stretch lines, just some of those Hard Rock Vol 1. licks.

On the other hand, many of Randy's solos would be impossible for anyone on the face of the earth to just improvise with a blank slate in one pass. Personally, I very much dig a well-written solo. And it seems to some that an obviously, painstakingly "written" solo is less desirable than a just as planned out written solo with many stock licks and tons of personality on it. Most of my favorite solos of all time are obviously "composed".

To my ears, Yngwie's best solos were on the Alcatrazz album. The phrasing was unbelievable. And though he likes to say he improvises his solos, I don't think anyone would ever believe he improvised his solo in "Jet To Jet" my absolute favorite Yngwie solo. There is no way that many of those other Alcatrazz solos are improvised. The phrasing is just too good and just fits together so well.

Does anyone think Gary Moore improvised my favorite solos of his in "Shapes of Things" or "Out in the Fields"?

And to throw a "spontaneous" sounding solo from Rhoads out there, the solo on "Children of the Grave" from the Tribute album to my ear is a very spontaneous SOUNDING lead and is possibly my favorite Rhoads solo of all time. If you are familiar with that solo on Tribute compare it to this one at the 6:40 mark and tell me if he played it the same way every night. The answer is no, clearly.

I could go on and on. I guess my basic take is that Randy's leads are much more technically challenging to play for the fingers but that Eddie is much more challenging to duplicate his personality and vibe. Which is more important or better? Both.

 

[Rogue]

Lets step back a little bit from the "spontaneity" of EVH's playing. A very, very large number of Eddie's solos were also composed. If we start naming a "best of" or "favorite solos of" Van Halen, I think many of them would end up with us believing they were totally composed or partially composed.

I'm sure many of them were composed or partially composed. At the very least has jammed over the rhythm section a time or two. But take the Beat it solo. He threw his guitar in his truck and drove over to record the solo. Made a rhythm section of the song a bit more conducive for a guitar solo. He did two takes and told them to pick the one they liked the most. Yes, it is absolutely nothing but an EVH bag of tricks solo, and hell yeah, I'd love to have that smoke and mirrors mojo.

The one thing Eddie is a master of is the resolution of a solo. He might be just holding it together and bring it home in the end...and that resolution makes sense of everything prior to it. The Beat It solo is a good example. Hell, just about any EVH solo is an example of this.

In many cases, they are just very basic, stock blues licks.

Some of the best players to grace the planet has used basic, stock blues licks. Doesn't matter if it's technically perfect or sloppy as hell, if you feel it, that's all that matters.

 

[Chubtone]

In many cases, they are just very basic, stock blues licks.

Some of the best players to grace the planet has used basic, stock blues licks. Doesn't matter if it's technically perfect or sloppy as hell, if you feel it, that's all that matters.

I don't disagree with this. I am just responding to some who have mentioned Van Halen's stuff is harder to play than Rhoads. In many cases while figuring out Van Halen stuff, I have heard something and then when I zero in on it to figure it out, I'm like..... "is that all that is?" because it sounds like so much more when he plays it. All feel and fire. I wouldn't say smoke and mirrors as others have said. Feel and fire and that is not a bad thing.

 

[Greazygeo]

To my ears, Yngwie's best solos were on the Alcatrazz album. The phrasing was unbelievable. And though he likes to say he improvises his solos, I don't think anyone would ever believe he improvised his solo in "Jet To Jet" my absolute favorite Yngwie solo. There is no way that many of those other Alcatrazz solos are improvised. The phrasing is just too good and just fits together so well.

The Alcatrazz stuff is my favorite YJM stuff. I think he "improvises" his solos on all the stuff after Rising Force. But what I mean by this is that he takes his 5 or 6 stock licks and just wings his solos with them. He doesnt even seem to listen to what he's playing over anymore...just hits autopilot.

Alot of players are like this...some have more memory to have a bigger vocabulary. There are very few players that don't repeat themselves.

That Alcatrazz album he was on fire for sure.

I prefer to hear stuff played with some thought behind it...rather than just wanking.

I doubt that Eddie could have played much of Randy's stuff....don't think Randy would of had any trouble playing Ed's though.

 

[Chubtone]

I doubt that Eddie could have played much of Randy's stuff....don't think Randy would of had any trouble playing Ed's though.

I kind of agree with this too. This is why it made me so mad back in the day when Eddie commented on Randy Rhoads death and said something like he was a good guitarist but I really don't think he was doing anything that I didn't already do. Yeah, Eddie..... you have a freaking clue what some of those scales and modes were and those runs that start real low and end real high and don't just climb using a recurring finger pattern but actually follow the notes in the key of the song. Eddie did tons of diminshed and exotic minor scales right?

 

[stephen sawall]

Anyone that improvises in Jazz or whatever will tell you on a good night they hit 25/30% improvisation...We all have our licks & riff.
Just like when you speak .... it is very similar.
I improvise everything for many years (my entire life). But I do enough of the original solo ...the phrasing that you recognize the solo. Some solos you need to play pretty much the whole thing note for note. But most I do not.

Personally I can think of many guitar players I think of as much better guitar players than RR & EVH .... but most do not play "rock" music.
People like John McLaughlin & Paco de Lucia....

 

[rupe]

I could go on and on. I guess my basic take is that Randy's leads are much more technically challenging to play for the fingers but that Eddie is much more challenging to duplicate his personality and vibe. Which is more important or better? Both.

word

 

[mojotone]

I could go on and on. I guess my basic take is that Randy's leads are much more technically challenging to play for the fingers but that Eddie is much more challenging to duplicate his personality and vibe. Which is more important or better? Both.

word

The technically challenging playing can be learned through repetition, if one has the patience. The personality and vibe may or may not come, ever, regardless of who you are trying to emulate.

As much as I love Randy's playing, Eddie will always be a bigger infuence to me. But then again, I am a huge early Joe Walsh, early Billy Gibbons fan.

 

[mixohoytian]

if only Randy had Diamond Dave in his band....

 

[Stramm8]

I doubt that Eddie could have played much of Randy's stuff....don't think Randy would of had any trouble playing Ed's though.

I kind of agree with this too. This is why it made me so mad back in the day when Eddie commented on Randy Rhoads death and said something like he was a good guitarist but I really don't think he was doing anything that I didn't already do. Yeah, Eddie..... you have a freaking clue what some of those scales and modes were and those runs that start real low and end real high and don't just climb using a recurring finger pattern but actually follow the notes in the key of the song. Eddie did tons of diminshed and exotic minor scales right?

Ok, but wasn't Ed a classically trained pianist when he was a kid? He's often talked about studying under some Russian "task master" and he one several competitions at the time. If that's true, it's safe to assume he was more than familiar with any of the scales and modes the RR used. He just prefered rock n roll/blues.

I've also heard that quote he made about RR but my take on it is that he wasn't really paying to much attention to what he or any other players of the day were doing. His plate was probably pretty full with being the guitar player in the bigest band in the world at the time...

That said, i love them both and still get a chill when the lead kicks in on Goodbye to Romance or Push Comes to Shove

 

[Greazygeo]

Eddie did tons of diminshed and exotic minor scales right?

He was too busy drinking to be bothered with all that fancy stuff!

 

[Greazygeo]

if only Randy had Diamond Dave in his band....

He would have moved to classical sooner.

 

[Digital Jams]

I doubt that Eddie could have played much of Randy's stuff....don't think Randy would of had any trouble playing Ed's though.

I kind of agree with this too. This is why it made me so mad back in the day when Eddie commented on Randy Rhoads death and said something like he was a good guitarist but I really don't think he was doing anything that I didn't already do. Yeah, Eddie..... you have a freaking clue what some of those scales and modes were and those runs that start real low and end real high and don't just climb using a recurring finger pattern but actually follow the notes in the key of the song. Eddie did tons of diminshed and exotic minor scales right?

I've also heard that quote he made about RR but my take on it is that he wasn't really paying to much attention to what he or any other players of the day were doing. His plate was probably pretty full with being the guitar player in the bigest band in the world at the time...

That said, i love them both and still get a chill when the lead kicks in on Goodbye to Romance or Push Comes to Shove

Ed was always looking over his back and yes he was VERY aware of the other guitarists out there at the time. Are you saying Ed was SO busy he could not listen to the radio or a cd? All of those guys were VERY aware of what they were doing and Ed is known for being a mess during interviews like the one where he even goes as far as making fun of handicapped children. How many of the greats has Ed shared the stage with? For reasons only he knows not many while others have shared the stage with their peers.

That said ed when he cared was very good regarding improv, you know what licks he will use, but this is a great performance. Then again when you get on stage with a beast like Tony Levin you better have your A game.

 

[Digital Jams]

if only Randy had Diamond Dave in his band....

He would have moved to classical sooner.

You are on a roll

 

[mixohoytian]

if only Randy had Diamond Dave in his band....

He would have moved to classical sooner.

You are on a roll

if only Randy had Diamond Dave in his band....

He would have moved to classical sooner.

You are on a roll

Told ya I was comin back, say your messages, say it like you mean it
ahhh aaa yeeeeheeyyyaaaaaaaaahhhh!

 

[Stramm8]

I doubt that Eddie could have played much of Randy's stuff....don't think Randy would of had any trouble playing Ed's though.

I kind of agree with this too. This is why it made me so mad back in the day when Eddie commented on Randy Rhoads death and said something like he was a good guitarist but I really don't think he was doing anything that I didn't already do. Yeah, Eddie..... you have a freaking clue what some of those scales and modes were and those runs that start real low and end real high and don't just climb using a recurring finger pattern but actually follow the notes in the key of the song. Eddie did tons of diminshed and exotic minor scales right?

I've also heard that quote he made about RR but my take on it is that he wasn't really paying to much attention to what he or any other players of the day were doing. His plate was probably pretty full with being the guitar player in the bigest band in the world at the time...

That said, i love them both and still get a chill when the lead kicks in on Goodbye to Romance or Push Comes to Shove

Are you saying Ed was SO busy he could not listen to the radio or a cd?

No. What I said was at the time he made that comment after Randy's death he could give a shit less. I'm sure that back in the club days it was like you described. Just my opinion of course ...

 

[Chubtone]

No. What I said was at the time he made that comment after Randy's death he could give a shit less. I'm sure that back in the club days it was like you described. Just my opinion of course ...

I truly think that as a rock star in a heavy rock band and the reigning king of rock and roll guitar that Eddie was probably quite aware of what was going on in that world. I'll bet the other guys in the band were popping Blizzard of Ozz into the tape deck on the bus. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Roth kept playing that as an irritant to keep the fire burning in Eddie and keep him on top of his game. They had freaking even toured with Sabbath. They knew Ozzy. And the new Ozzy was all over the radio in their hometown of LA. I think Ed was painfully aware of what Randy was doing and that he was a petty little b'yatch and unwilling to acknowledge there may have been a contender for his throne. Not a new champ, not a shoe in, but a possible contender.

I have a strong feeling that Ed was getting quite tired of hearing Randy Rhoads this and Randy Rhoads that as he went from town to town and talked to guitar players all over the world. For the first couple of years of Ed's career, he was the man and there was really no one that others could talk to him about. Ed WAS the hip new player setting the world on fire. Then starting in about 1981, I'll bet there was a lot of, "have you heard this new guy Randy Rhoads?". "Have you heard the new Ozzy album?". "Did you see Randy Rhoads won the "Best New Talent" award in Guitar Player magazine?".

I'm sure this made Ed feel a little uneasy and possibly also brought up in him this memory of their "rivalry" back in the clubs and Ed knowing that in the VH vs. Quiet Riot days that Eddie could dust Randy. But this wasn't the Quiet Riot days anymore. And there was no longer any dusting going on. Van Halen was more ballsy and heavy than Quiet Riot, but now Randy was playing heavier and ballsier stuff than Van Halen. Rhoads was on fire and I honestly think it made Ed a little uneasy. Remember the story of Ed early in his career being bummed out that Blackmore wouldn't shake his hand and the sort of sour grapes feeling that Blackmore seemed to have towards him? I think the tables had turned and Ed was feeling those same sour grapes. It sure sounded like it in that comment he made after Rhoads death.

This is all speculation on my part, but I have heard stories about Ed being surrounded by Yes men and people who told him he was the greatest since the days of the first album. It's gotta be kind of annoying to have someone else out there threatening to burst your perfect little bubble.

And I'm changing my vote to Rhoads. Eddie can suck it after being so classless in a response to a Guitar Player magazine interviewer for an article meant to pay tribute to a peer who had just died. Even that had to be about him.

 

[Motorpud]

I'm changing my vote to Rhoads. Eddie can suck it

Looks like he might already be one step ahead of you

 

[metalmaniac93]

No. What I said was at the time he made that comment after Randy's death he could give a shit less. I'm sure that back in the club days it was like you described. Just my opinion of course ...

I truly think that as a rock star in a heavy rock band and the reigning king of rock and roll guitar that Eddie was probably quite aware of what was going on in that world. I'll bet the other guys in the band were popping Blizzard of Ozz into the tape deck on the bus. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Roth kept playing that as an irritant to keep the fire burning in Eddie and keep him on top of his game. They had freaking even toured with Sabbath. They knew Ozzy. And the new Ozzy was all over the radio in their hometown of LA. I think Ed was painfully aware of what Randy was doing and that he was a petty little b'yatch and unwilling to acknowledge there may have been a contender for his throne. Not a new champ, not a shoe in, but a possible contender.

I have a strong feeling that Ed was getting quite tired of hearing Randy Rhoads this and Randy Rhoads that as he went from town to town and talked to guitar players all over the world. For the first couple of years of Ed's career, he was the man and there was really no one that others could talk to him about. Ed WAS the hip new player setting the world on fire. Then starting in about 1981, I'll bet there was a lot of, "have you heard this new guy Randy Rhoads?". "Have you heard the new Ozzy album?". "Did you see Randy Rhoads won the "Best New Talent" award in Guitar Player magazine?".

I'm sure this made Ed feel a little uneasy and possibly also brought up in him this memory of their "rivalry" back in the clubs and Ed knowing that in the VH vs. Quiet Riot days that Eddie could dust Randy. But this wasn't the Quiet Riot days anymore. And there was no longer any dusting going on. Van Halen was more ballsy and heavy than Quiet Riot, but now Randy was playing heavier and ballsier stuff than Van Halen. Rhoads was on fire and I honestly think it made Ed a little uneasy. Remember the story of Ed early in his career being bummed out that Blackmore wouldn't shake his hand and the sort of sour grapes feeling that Blackmore seemed to have towards him? I think the tables had turned and Ed was feeling those same sour grapes. It sure sounded like it in that comment he made after Rhoads death.

This is all speculation on my part, but I have heard stories about Ed being surrounded by Yes men and people who told him he was the greatest since the days of the first album. It's gotta be kind of annoying to have someone else out there threatening to burst your perfect little bubble.

And I'm changing my vote to Rhoads. Eddie can suck it after being so classless in a response to a Guitar Player magazine interviewer for an article meant to pay tribute to a peer who had just died. Even that had to be about him.

I totally agree with you an this and I remember that article. It kind of pissed me off and after that I lost all respect for EVH and never looked back!!! His last great accomplishment was Fair Warning and it was a great album. One of the best IMO!!!

 

[rupe]

I'm changing my vote to Rhoads. Eddie can suck it

Looks like he might already be one step ahead of you