Randy Rhoads vs. Eddie Van Halen

[guitarmike]

When you play music for people with your guitar (solo or in a band) and they enjoy it, you are a good guitare player.

When you inspire others to pick up a guitar and start playing, you are a great guitar player.

 

[Anonymous]

When you play music for people with your guitar (solo or in a band) and they enjoy it, you are a good guitare player.

When you inspire others to pick up a guitar and start playing, you are a great guitar player.

I inspired my nephew to pick up the guitar! Fuckin' a, I'm a great guitar player!

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Lets step back a little bit from the "spontaneity" of EVH's playing. A very, very large number of Eddie's solos were also composed. If we start naming a "best of" or "favorite solos of" Van Halen, I think many of them would end up with us believing they were totally composed or partially composed. They may sound spontaneous because in many cases, if you reduce the actual notes and licks he is playing to what they are, it is quite easy to believe he is winging those. In many cases, they are just very basic, stock blues licks. What is so cool about them is the tone, the feel, the fire and the passion with which he plays them. That is what turns some of those leads from sounding like something Billy Gibbons, Ace Frehley or Joe Perry or any other 70's hard rocker would play. Van Halen made many of those same licks sound like something way more than what they were. I am not talking about his signature tapping and whammy and trem picked or big stretch lines, just some of those Hard Rock Vol 1. licks.

On the other hand, many of Randy's solos would be impossible for anyone on the face of the earth to just improvise with a blank slate in one pass. Personally, I very much dig a well-written solo. And it seems to some that an obviously, painstakingly "written" solo is less desirable than a just as planned out written solo with many stock licks and tons of personality on it. Most of my favorite solos of all time are obviously "composed".

To my ears, Yngwie's best solos were on the Alcatrazz album. The phrasing was unbelievable. And though he likes to say he improvises his solos, I don't think anyone would ever believe he improvised his solo in "Jet To Jet" my absolute favorite Yngwie solo. There is no way that many of those other Alcatrazz solos are improvised. The phrasing is just too good and just fits together so well.

Does anyone think Gary Moore improvised my favorite solos of his in "Shapes of Things" or "Out in the Fields"?

And to throw a "spontaneous" sounding solo from Rhoads out there, the solo on "Children of the Grave" from the Tribute album to my ear is a very spontaneous SOUNDING lead and is possibly my favorite Rhoads solo of all time. If you are familiar with that solo on Tribute compare it to this one at the 6:40 mark and tell me if he played it the same way every night. The answer is no, clearly.

I could go on and on. I guess my basic take is that Randy's leads are much more technically challenging to play for the fingers but that Eddie is much more challenging to duplicate his personality and vibe. Which is more important or better? Both.

Speaking for myself, when I was discussing Ed's improv/spontaneity, I was talking about live. Of course I realize Ed's solos were worked out. What I was talking about is live he'd start and end 'em pretty much in the same way, but he'd just go off script in the middle and sometimes it was brilliant. Also, there is another factor, which is that while Ed's solos were, of course, worked out for the albums, they often don't sound like they were worked out. To me, Randy's solos sound more worked out a lot of the time ("Mr. Crowley" is an exception to me). Not bagging on that - I enjoy Randy's approach as well, I just prefer Ed's approach.

Also, to say that Ed's solos were "in many cases" just stock blues licks I think is really unfair. Perhaps you haven't tried to work out as many of his solos as I have, I dunno, but I find that he is often outside of the stock blues lick zone - there are passing tones and more complex things going on that made Ed different and make it difficult to get his solos right.

Also, I think it is a toss up on who's solos are harder to play and that your particular development as a guitarist and your affinities and abilities are going to dictate what you are going to be able to duplicate. I spent a lot more time trying to learn Ed's stuff, and my technique developed around that style, which makes other things harder for me. The whole idea that Randy could easily play Ed's stuff and Ed would not be able to play Randy's is just nonsense (I know you didn't say that, but others have in this thread). They are different players and that is it. There are things about Ed's playing that Randy would have difficulty duplicating and vice versa...

Love that "Children of the Grave" solo you posted above - lots of great stock blues licks...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I truly think that as a rock star in a heavy rock band and the reigning king of rock and roll guitar that Eddie was probably quite aware of what was going on in that world. I'll bet the other guys in the band were popping Blizzard of Ozz into the tape deck on the bus. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Roth kept playing that as an irritant to keep the fire burning in Eddie and keep him on top of his game. They had freaking even toured with Sabbath. They knew Ozzy. And the new Ozzy was all over the radio in their hometown of LA. I think Ed was painfully aware of what Randy was doing and that he was a petty little b'yatch and unwilling to acknowledge there may have been a contender for his throne. Not a new champ, not a shoe in, but a possible contender.

Although neither of us would ever know without getting honest input from Ed (probably impossible), I just don't buy that Ed was feeling this competition or need to maintain some kind of imaginary superiority over other guitar players. While I think it is impossible that Ed would be unaware of Randy, especially since they played the same Hollywood scene for years, I doubt he gave a shit about what he was doing.

I have a strong feeling that Ed was getting quite tired of hearing Randy Rhoads this and Randy Rhoads that as he went from town to town and talked to guitar players all over the world. For the first couple of years of Ed's career, he was the man and there was really no one that others could talk to him about. Ed WAS the hip new player setting the world on fire. Then starting in about 1981, I'll bet there was a lot of, "have you heard this new guy Randy Rhoads?". "Have you heard the new Ozzy album?". "Did you see Randy Rhoads won the "Best New Talent" award in Guitar Player magazine?".

I don't know what would give you this impression. Ed has always been really honest about the players he admired. LIke Holdsworth for example. Once again, I don't see why he would care.

I'm sure this made Ed feel a little uneasy and possibly also brought up in him this memory of their "rivalry" back in the clubs and Ed knowing that in the VH vs. Quiet Riot days that Eddie could dust Randy. But this wasn't the Quiet Riot days anymore. And there was no longer any dusting going on. Van Halen was more ballsy and heavy than Quiet Riot, but now Randy was playing heavier and ballsier stuff than Van Halen. Rhoads was on fire and I honestly think it made Ed a little uneasy. Remember the story of Ed early in his career being bummed out that Blackmore wouldn't shake his hand and the sort of sour grapes feeling that Blackmore seemed to have towards him? I think the tables had turned and Ed was feeling those same sour grapes. It sure sounded like it in that comment he made after Rhoads death.

I just don't think Ed cared about Randy's success with Ozzy. I dunno that Randy was playing "ballsier" music. It certainly was more heavy metal. I don't think Ed wanted to be in a heavy metal band anyway...

This is all speculation on my part, but I have heard stories about Ed being surrounded by Yes men and people who told him he was the greatest since the days of the first album. It's gotta be kind of annoying to have someone else out there threatening to burst your perfect little bubble.

I don't understand your point. Those yes men never left and rooms full of men still worship Ed even when he drunkenly rolls around on the floor with feedback screaming from his sustainer. The perfect little bubble is never ending in the face of many guitar players who have come along since...

And I'm changing my vote to Rhoads. Eddie can suck it after being so classless in a response to a Guitar Player magazine interviewer for an article meant to pay tribute to a peer who had just died. Even that had to be about him.

Fair enough and I don't like what he said either, but he was a complete drunk, was probably drunk then and drunk people stay stupid things. Look at the way he treated Pat Smear:

from an interview with Pat Smear:

Pat: Can I tell you my Eddie Van Halen story? I actually met him. He was backstage at the final Nirvana concert at the Forum, which for me, was like,"Oh my God, I'm playing on the SAME stage as [Queen's] Brian May!" I was dying. Anyway, Eddie Van Halen comes backstage drunk out of his fucking mind, and he started begging Kurt to let him play with us. It was so disgusting. He was like, "I'm all washed up; you are what's happening now." It was horrible! He was a horrible racist pig!

Jeff: I heard he was running Mennen Speed Stick deodorant all over his face. Is that true?

Pat: Yeah [laughs]. Kurt had this deodorant, and he sniffed it or something like that, and it got on his face. It looked like he had cocaine under his nose.

Jennifer: I heard he was asking Kurt to let him come on stage and play "Eruption," but Kurt said, "no," and Eddie said, "C'mon, let me play the Mexican's guitar," referring to you.

Pat: I told Krist [Novoselic], I thought we should let him play with us. But he said no because we'd never get him off the stage. When I walked up to Eddie, he was talking to Krist. I just saw the back of his head so I didn't know who he was. And Krist goes, "Oh Eddie, you haven't met Pat. He's our new guitar player." Eddie turns around and sees me, but he doesn't say hello or anything. He just say's, "Oh no, not a dark one." At first I thought he was kidding. But he kept asking me, "What are you? Are you like a Raji or something? Are you Mexican?" Then he kept saying to Kurt," C'mon let me play the Mexican's guitar." I was horrified!

Jeff: Is he the El Duce of Metal?

Pat: [Laughs] Eddie Van Halen is the perfect example for me of not wanting to meet your heroes 'cause you'll be disappointed. I hear he's sober now. I blame that incident totally on the alcohol. I've done a lot of bad things when I was drunk, too.

Jeff: I don't think you're coming from a judgmental place at all.

Pat: I was just shocked. I was thinking, "God, Eddie Van Halen hates me."

Anyway...

To me, that is way worse than what he said about Randy...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Ed was always looking over his back and yes he was VERY aware of the other guitarists out there at the time.

Is this information garnered from your many wide ranging conversations with Ed?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

In many cases, they are just very basic, stock blues licks.

Some of the best players to grace the planet has used basic, stock blues licks. Doesn't matter if it's technically perfect or sloppy as hell, if you feel it, that's all that matters.

I don't disagree with this. I am just responding to some who have mentioned Van Halen's stuff is harder to play than Rhoads. In many cases while figuring out Van Halen stuff, I have heard something and then when I zero in on it to figure it out, I'm like..... "is that all that is?" because it sounds like so much more when he plays it. All feel and fire. I wouldn't say smoke and mirrors as others have said. Feel and fire and that is not a bad thing.

Next time we get together, I'm gonna have you explain some of the note choices in the "So This Is Love?" solo. Sounds real bluesy, but when I look at the notes, I'm not seeing how they fit the blues scale. There are countless examples of this in his solos...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Randy was twice the player Eddie was, even Randy use to say ed is all smoke and mirrors,have you people forgotten, just listen to the song, diary of a madman, and find anything technically close from van halen, it doesn't exist,

Really? How about "Girl Gone Bad"? Technically very difficult... There are many more as well.

Steve

C'mon Steve...not even close. Eddie brought A LOT to the table, but precise, technical playing wasn't a part of that package IMO. Not that he didn't have a few moments (check out his spotlight solo in "Live Without a Net" for one) but overall he was more "tricks and flash" than well composed as far as soloing is concerned (I personally think his rhythms are his strong point).

Are you saying that the song "Girl Gone Bad" is not hard to play?

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. That "tricks and flash" bullshit is so tiresome to me. His playing is precise and technical, it just doesn't sound like it because it sounds natural and not worked out and he uses more legato than a lot of the "precise, technical" guys. How many of Ed's solos have you actually figured out? There are a lot of strange notes and many of them are very hard to play with his feel... Those 12-15-19 and 12-16-19 runs that he's fretting with only the left hand are extremely fast and hard to play.

Have you ever seen that video of Paul Gilbert playing "Spanish Fly"? Even he admits he ran out of gas trying to finish it. You can see his left hand dying at the end. This guy is one of the most technical guitar players ever to pick up the instrument... Here ya go (imbedding is disables, so click "Watch it on YouTube"

But, you're right... that's a cinch to play!

Steve

 

[Digital Jams]

Ed was always looking over his back and yes he was VERY aware of the other guitarists out there at the time.

Is this information garnered from your many wide ranging conversations with Ed?

Steve

I am in the same camp as Curt with this one and yes should have inserted the "IMO" that Ed knew exactly what was going on back then being that it happened right on his backyard. I just do not see Ed being oblivious to what was happening back then which to me was a golden time of rock and gear technology. From what I heard about Ed's ending with Jose it was because he was working with other people and Ed did not like this and the Golden amp was never finished and had only one live show. Could be wrong I but the guys I heard the story from have enough cred I will chew on it. Could be another internet legend.

If other musicians were lining up to see guitarist "X" due to this hyperbowl around him I would think the same would be for pro guitarists back then. The same rags that had the EVH stories had others in there and I cannot see Ed reading about himself and trashing the mag.

Well maybe he did have an Adonis complex

 

[Anonymous]

Ed was always looking over his back and yes he was VERY aware of the other guitarists out there at the time.

Is this information garnered from your many wide ranging conversations with Ed?

Steve

I am in the same camp as Curt with this one and yes should have inserted the "IMO" that Ed knew exactly what was going on back then being that it happened right on his backyard. I just do not see Ed being oblivious to what was happening back then which to me was a golden time of rock and gear technology. From what I heard about Ed's ending with Jose it was because he was working with other people and Ed did not like this and the Golden amp was never finished and had only one live show. Could be wrong I but the guys I heard the story from have enough cred I will chew on it. Could be another internet legend.

If other musicians were lining up to see guitarist "X" due to this hyperbowl around him I would think the same would be for pro guitarists back then. The same rags that had the EVH stories had others in there and I cannot see Ed reading about himself and trashing the mag.

Well maybe he did have an Adonis complex

I don't think Ed was oblivious to Randy. I think that would be impossible. I just don't think he cared what he was up to. At the time, there was just too much booze to drink and cocaine to snort to worry much about other guitar players...

Steve

 

[Digital Jams]

BTW people talking album sales and worth.............................

From what I can find The Edge is worth around $200,000,000

 

[Digital Jams]

Ed was always looking over his back and yes he was VERY aware of the other guitarists out there at the time.

Is this information garnered from your many wide ranging conversations with Ed?

Steve

I am in the same camp as Curt with this one and yes should have inserted the "IMO" that Ed knew exactly what was going on back then being that it happened right on his backyard. I just do not see Ed being oblivious to what was happening back then which to me was a golden time of rock and gear technology. From what I heard about Ed's ending with Jose it was because he was working with other people and Ed did not like this and the Golden amp was never finished and had only one live show. Could be wrong I but the guys I heard the story from have enough cred I will chew on it. Could be another internet legend.

If other musicians were lining up to see guitarist "X" due to this hyperbowl around him I would think the same would be for pro guitarists back then. The same rags that had the EVH stories had others in there and I cannot see Ed reading about himself and trashing the mag.

Well maybe he did have an Adonis complex

I don't think Ed was oblivious to Randy. I think that would be impossible. I just don't think he cared what he was up to. At the time, there was just too much booze to drink and cocaine to snort to worry much about other guitar players...

Steve

I will drink to that while remembering big hair and stocking at shows

 

[Rogue]

So, it is decided then, blue is the best.

 

[rupe]

Randy was twice the player Eddie was, even Randy use to say ed is all smoke and mirrors,have you people forgotten, just listen to the song, diary of a madman, and find anything technically close from van halen, it doesn't exist,

Really? How about "Girl Gone Bad"? Technically very difficult... There are many more as well.

Steve

C'mon Steve...not even close. Eddie brought A LOT to the table, but precise, technical playing wasn't a part of that package IMO. Not that he didn't have a few moments (check out his spotlight solo in "Live Without a Net" for one) but overall he was more "tricks and flash" than well composed as far as soloing is concerned (I personally think his rhythms are his strong point).

Are you saying that the song "Girl Gone Bad" is not hard to play?

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. That "tricks and flash" bullshit is so tiresome to me. His playing is precise and technical, it just doesn't sound like it because it sounds natural and not worked out and he uses more legato than a lot of the "precise, technical" guys. How many of Ed's solos have you actually figured out? There are a lot of strange notes and many of them are very hard to play with his feel... Those 12-15-19 and 12-16-19 runs that he's fretting with only the left hand are extremely fast and hard to play.

Have you ever seen that video of Paul Gilbert playing "Spanish Fly"? Even he admits he ran out of gas trying to finish it. You can see his left hand dying at the end. This guy is one of the most technical guitar players ever to pick up the instrument... Here ya go (imbedding is disables, so click "Watch it on YouTube"

But, you're right... that's a cinch to play!

Steve

I think we're simply looking at this differently. I find a lot of VH stuff difficult to play correctly because of Ed's timing and feel, not because of the harmonic complexity of his soloing (ala Randy). If your definition of "technical" includes those elements (mine doesn't), then you've made a good point...otherwise you're misconstruing feel for technique.

They were both great players, but in different ways IMO.

As for the debate on whther or not Ed felt pressure from Randy and others, I can't see how anybody could think that he didn't, regardless of how drunken and drugged he was at the time. The shots at Randy, the constant "everybody stole from me" quotes throughout the 80's...he noticed it and it got to him IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Randy was twice the player Eddie was, even Randy use to say ed is all smoke and mirrors,have you people forgotten, just listen to the song, diary of a madman, and find anything technically close from van halen, it doesn't exist,

Really? How about "Girl Gone Bad"? Technically very difficult... There are many more as well.

Steve

C'mon Steve...not even close. Eddie brought A LOT to the table, but precise, technical playing wasn't a part of that package IMO. Not that he didn't have a few moments (check out his spotlight solo in "Live Without a Net" for one) but overall he was more "tricks and flash" than well composed as far as soloing is concerned (I personally think his rhythms are his strong point).

Are you saying that the song "Girl Gone Bad" is not hard to play?

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. That "tricks and flash" bullshit is so tiresome to me. His playing is precise and technical, it just doesn't sound like it because it sounds natural and not worked out and he uses more legato than a lot of the "precise, technical" guys. How many of Ed's solos have you actually figured out? There are a lot of strange notes and many of them are very hard to play with his feel... Those 12-15-19 and 12-16-19 runs that he's fretting with only the left hand are extremely fast and hard to play.

Have you ever seen that video of Paul Gilbert playing "Spanish Fly"? Even he admits he ran out of gas trying to finish it. You can see his left hand dying at the end. This guy is one of the most technical guitar players ever to pick up the instrument... Here ya go (imbedding is disables, so click "Watch it on YouTube"

But, you're right... that's a cinch to play!

Steve

I think we're simply looking at this differently. I find a lot of VH stuff difficult to play correctly because of Ed's timing and feel, not because of the harmonic complexity of his soloing (ala Randy). If your definition of "technical" includes those elements (mine doesn't), then you've made a good point...otherwise you're misconstruing feel for technique.

My definition of technical is that it requires a lot of technique to play, meaning it is physically hard to play, usually because of the accuracy and minimization of movement required to move through some intricate passage of notes at the required speed. Harmonic complexity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with technical playing. I can compose you something right now that is harmonically complex and is really easy to play as well.

It is interesting that you didn't comment on the video I posted. That piece is technically very difficult. It's hard to play. Even Gilbert is running out of gas at the end. How can you say that is not technically difficult? It has nothing to do with timing or feel. It is is just flat difficult, requiring great accuracy and minimization of movement to play. The amount of practice required to achieve it is significant.

Randy used different scales and modes than VH, but VH also does a lot of strange things in solos that I've never been able to figure out how those notes fit harmonically - yet they sound killer.

I dunno. I love both players, but this whole idea that one is technically better than the other doesn't make sense to me. They play very differently and both would have trouble playing each others material from a technique standpoint because they developed different capabilities with respect to technique...

Interesting discussion for sure...I'm kinda diggin' these threads you've started here recently...

Steve

 

[Rogue]

I dunno. I love both players, but this whole idea that one is technically better than the other doesn't make sense to me. They play very differently and both would have trouble playing each others material from a technique standpoint because they developed different capabilities with respect to technique...

It makes sense to me in that RR is a more "polished" in his playing. His licks tend to follow a more strict approach, so to speak. Eddie was never about that. He was about jamming out some cool shit. RR seems the guy who sat down and worked on alternate picking scales where Eddie just noodled and developed his own thing. Note: not to suggest RR didn't have his own thing.

So I get the RR is technically better thing, I just don't understand why the hell it matters. Like I said earlier, you can find dozens of youtube videos of people that technically blow RR out of the water. Not a single one of them make RR less a great guitar player. This is clearly a spandex forum, and I think there was a mindset created from that period that technical was better, which it isn't necessarily. You know, if it's so damned great, why did that whole era implode? To be honest, even as a child of the 80s and love the blazing solo thing, the 80s just may be the worst decade of actual good music since it all became publicly accessible. IMO, of course.

That said, I don't think RR would have any easier of time playing EVH than anyone else. And why the hell would he? He's RR and he owns his own thing. Eddie owns his own thing. Yeah, there are some guys that dedicated their life to copping EVH licks and can do them well, but what is that? Cool, sure, but what difference does that make in the grand scheme of things? No is going to remember the guys that could imitate Eddie, or RR.

If it sounds good, it is good. Doesn't make a flip whether you are a robot player or can't even play a scale.

 

[Chubtone]

There are lots of interesting takes in this thread and it has been pretty fun to read. It reminds me a bit of high school which for me took place at this exact time. It was bizarre in that we all aligned with either Eddie or Randy and that was it. You liked one or the other. I was in the Randy camp but there was still plenty of Van Halen listening and attempting to learn his songs from me.

We also made it onto 5 pages. This is the first time in a long time we have done that.

 

[Tonelover]

I find Randy's playing in the context of those two Ozzy albums much more visceral and thought provoking. Don't get me wrong, Van Halen has some killer songs and riffs but they are like sugar water in terms of what they do for me emotionally vs. something like say, Diary of a Madman.

 

[Rogue]

....It was bizarre in that we all aligned with either Eddie or Randy and that was it.....

I never aligned with one or the other. In fact, I wasn't even aware there were alliances taking place. I liked RR's stuff far more than most 80s guitar hero stuff that came about in the late 80s. But at the basic most level, I prefer Eddie's style a bit more. I have noticed though, since this thread began, that I am missing some Ozzy cds.

As a side note, I do play the obligatory DOAMM intro and Dee when I pick up an acoustic.

 

[rupe]

Randy was twice the player Eddie was, even Randy use to say ed is all smoke and mirrors,have you people forgotten, just listen to the song, diary of a madman, and find anything technically close from van halen, it doesn't exist,

Really? How about "Girl Gone Bad"? Technically very difficult... There are many more as well.

Steve

C'mon Steve...not even close. Eddie brought A LOT to the table, but precise, technical playing wasn't a part of that package IMO. Not that he didn't have a few moments (check out his spotlight solo in "Live Without a Net" for one) but overall he was more "tricks and flash" than well composed as far as soloing is concerned (I personally think his rhythms are his strong point).

Are you saying that the song "Girl Gone Bad" is not hard to play?

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. That "tricks and flash" bullshit is so tiresome to me. His playing is precise and technical, it just doesn't sound like it because it sounds natural and not worked out and he uses more legato than a lot of the "precise, technical" guys. How many of Ed's solos have you actually figured out? There are a lot of strange notes and many of them are very hard to play with his feel... Those 12-15-19 and 12-16-19 runs that he's fretting with only the left hand are extremely fast and hard to play.

Have you ever seen that video of Paul Gilbert playing "Spanish Fly"? Even he admits he ran out of gas trying to finish it. You can see his left hand dying at the end. This guy is one of the most technical guitar players ever to pick up the instrument... Here ya go (imbedding is disables, so click "Watch it on YouTube"

But, you're right... that's a cinch to play!

Steve

I think we're simply looking at this differently. I find a lot of VH stuff difficult to play correctly because of Ed's timing and feel, not because of the harmonic complexity of his soloing (ala Randy). If your definition of "technical" includes those elements (mine doesn't), then you've made a good point...otherwise you're misconstruing feel for technique.

My definition of technical is that it requires a lot of technique to play, meaning it is physically hard to play, usually because of the accuracy and minimization of movement required to move through some intricate passage of notes at the required speed. Harmonic complexity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with technical playing. I can compose you something right now that is harmonically complex and is really easy to play as well.

Clearly we view it differently. I can make up a lick that is damn near impossible to play yet really doesn't have anything going on harmonically or melodically...I wouldn't consider that to be technical as mush as simply difficult for the sake of difficulty. Also, I would say that your example of "I can compose you something right now that is harmonically complex and is really easy to play as well" would qualify as a technical composition no matter what level of skill it takes to reproduce it.

It is interesting that you didn't comment on the video I posted. That piece is technically very difficult. It's hard to play. Even Gilbert is running out of gas at the end. How can you say that is not technically difficult? It has nothing to do with timing or feel. It is is just flat difficult, requiring great accuracy and minimization of movement to play. The amount of practice required to achieve it is significant.

I hadn't watched that video yet when I commented...I got too excited with all the important things I had to say in rebuttal

Upon watching it, I think the difficulty has more to do with stamina than chops...that's like saying its technically difficult to run a marathon. I've never learned that piece but as I watched Gilbert it appeared to be based more heavily on patterns and chromatics than anything else. Sounds cool, no doubt its a bitch to play, yet that doesn't qualify as technical...in my world

Randy used different scales and modes than VH, but VH also does a lot of strange things in solos that I've never been able to figure out how those notes fit harmonically - yet they sound killer.

Agree wholeheartedly

I dunno. I love both players, but this whole idea that one is technically better than the other doesn't make sense to me. They play very differently and both would have trouble playing each others material from a technique standpoint because they developed different capabilities with respect to technique...

Understood...its all very subjective. Perhaps I would have been more accurate by referring to Randy as "compositionally deeper" than Ed...or that could set off yet another discussion

Interesting discussion for sure...I'm kinda diggin' these threads you've started here recently...

Thanks! Just trying to spark up some good discussion in the face of all the "stale" and "boring" comments that have been flying around recently. Appears that it may have worked to some degree

Steve

Yes, you are

Bill

 

[rupe]

There are lots of interesting takes in this thread and it has been pretty fun to read. It reminds me a bit of high school which for me took place at this exact time. It was bizarre in that we all aligned with either Eddie or Randy and that was it. You liked one or the other. I was in the Randy camp but there was still plenty of Van Halen listening and attempting to learn his songs from me.

This is exactly what it was like for me as a teenager, and is also the reason I started the thread. It was odd that these two great players could be so polarizing to a community of young guitarists (and fans). My feet were planted firmly in the Randy camp...I had to do all my VH listening in the privacy of my bedroom, kinda like a secret love affair