Recommend some "high output" pickups that don't suck with all maple L/P

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DanTravis62 said:
I believe you if you say your guitar is bright - but it's just an exception to the rule

scale has everything to do with it the vast, vast majority of the time
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It's bright because it's all maple w/ebony.
edit; (which in itself is an exception to the rule)
 
The vast majority of LP scale guitars are darker because they have those huge hunk of mahogany bodies and are strung at lower string tensions.
 
dave74 said:
It's bright because it's all maple w/ebony.
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If you say so 😂

Different woods can have mildly different tonal characteristics but especially with high output pickups and a poly finish I'm pressing x to doubt.
 
DanTravis62 said:
The vast majority of LP scale guitars are naturally darker, no matter the wood :dunno:

I'm sure there's 5 exceptions out there in the world, but its a rule of thumb for a reason
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I’ve also played a ‘50’s LP Jr that had an all maple body and neck and it was a very bright guitar (WAY brighter than my all mahogany ‘57 LP Jr when AB’ed) and I’m sure if I went back to the list of all the past guitars I’ve owned can other examples. Of course scale length is a huge factor, but so is wood and finish type IME. I’ve had/still have plenty of bolt-on strat scale guitars that are very dark and thick sounding. The common denominator is they have darker sounding woods. It’s a sum of the all parts IME, but the wood choice itself is a huge part of it that I find contributes to the overall package quite a bit more than scale length. I’ve had now over the years over 100 different guitars, played way more than that and just my findings from it and it’s about as diverse a range of guitars as I think it can get whether it be wood or material choices (including all aluminum, magnesium alloy, carbon fiber, stone, resin), scale lengths, how the neck attaches, etc
 
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DanTravis62 said:
If you say so 😂

Different woods can have mildly different tonal characteristics but especially with high output pickups and a poly finish I'm pressing x to doubt.
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So you think it's bright because of scale length being 25"?
 
DanTravis62 said:
If you say so 😂

Different woods can have mildly different tonal characteristics but especially with high output pickups and a poly finish I'm pressing x to doubt.
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Poly finish certainly homogenizes things (unfortunately), but the op didn’t say what the finish is on his guitar. Would be good to know. And of course high output pickups also homogenize things unfortunately, but even then wood choice to me at least IME is the easiest difference I tend to hear between comparing different guitars
 
braintheory said:
Poly finish certainly homogenizes things (unfortunately), but the op didn’t say what the finish is on his guitar. Would be good to know. And of course high output pickups also homogenize things unfortunately, but even then wood choice to me at least IME is the easiest difference I tend to hear between comparing different guitars
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I have a couple of short scale tele partscasters about - specifically, one is hardrock maple (and is heavy as shit) and one is mahogany

I actually think I'm going to record both of them, with the same everything except body wood, and see just how much of a difference it makes

I kind of already know what the result is going to be, because i've done this before, but not with these specific woods or guitars
 
Anyways, at any scale length, something like an Invader or Warpig will balance out nicely with a guitar that is very mid-bright unplugged. It will indeed be somewhat 2-dimensional because of the compressing nature of high-dcr winds and the strident and focused nature of hard-maple.

A lower or medium-dcr wind will breathe more and open-up the sonic spectrum of the mid-focused maple. It just comes down to what your looking for from your tone.

Tone Zone would not be a bad choice either IMO, but if you are a "tight-metal" guy maybe stick with ceramic mags.
 
dave74 said:
Anyways, at any scale length, something like an Invader or Warpig will balance out nicely with a guitar that is very mid-bright unplugged. It will indeed be somewhat 2-dimensional because of the compressing nature of high-dcr winds and the strident and focused nature of hard-maple.

A lower or medium-dcr wind will breathe more and open-up the sonic spectrum of the mid-focused maple. It just comes down to what your looking for from your tone.

Tone Zone would not be a bad choice either IMO, but if you are a "tight-metal" guy maybe stick with ceramic mags.
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Yeah regardless of scale length or any on paper specs I find you really just have to play the guitar (especially unplugged) and see what it’s inherent voice is and try to find a pickup that complements it well. It can take some trial and error. Wood and organic materials in general tend to vary more IME

For me, the 2D part I was referring to is just how I found all BKP’s regardless of DC (I’ve tried almost their whole line-up). Their pickups to me just come off sterile and uninspiring vs others in any of their respective output ranges, so I don’t recommend them. Some others that get recommended here like Wagner’s I find markedly better, but still IME just not as 3D or inspiring to play through as the vintage high output pickups I’ve liked and they’re not even more expensive (many are actually a lot cheaper and way underrated). For non-vintage pickups I do like the Lundgren M6 a lot, but I don’t think it’s what the op would want nor most guys on this forum
 
DanTravis62 said:
I have a couple of short scale tele partscasters about - specifically, one is hardrock maple (and is heavy as shit) and one is mahogany

I actually think I'm going to record both of them, with the same everything except body wood, and see just how much of a difference it makes

I kind of already know what the result is going to be, because i've done this before, but not with these specific woods or guitars
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I admittedly suck at recording since it doesn’t interest me as much, but I found from my experience that tends to just be a more subdued version of what I hear in person when I’ve tried recording amps with different guitars and all else equal, so I’d expect to hear the same in that scenario. My opinions I give are always just based on what I hear in person, not recorded

Either way it could be interesting what you find. Fwiw, I don’t actually like maple much as a tone wood in general. I’m having a guitar being made for me now by a luthier I really like that will have an all port Orford cedar body and neck, all shellac finish too, basically a wood like Mediterranean cypress used on flamenco guitars. I find that wood is even brighter, tighter, more articulate with more pop and snap than maple, but more importantly more musical and tonally complex. More electric guitars should use it imo as well as spruce. The original plan actually was to use Mediterranean cypress, but he said the batch of Port Orford Cedar he just got in has exceptional tap tone even better than the Turkish Cypress he has and he seems to be one of the few that actually cares about tone in his guitars
 
braintheory said:
I admittedly suck at recording since it doesn’t interest me as much, but I found from my experience that tends to just be a more subdued version of what I hear in person when I’ve tried recording amps with different guitars and all else equal, so I’d expect to hear the same in that scenario. My opinions I give are always just based on what I hear in person, not recorded

Either way it could be interesting what you find. Fwiw, I don’t actually like maple much as a tone wood in general. I’m having a guitar being made for me now by a luthier I really like that will have an all port Orford cedar body and neck, all shellac finish too, basically a wood like Mediterranean cypress used on flamenco guitars. I find that wood is even brighter, tighter, more articulate with more pop and snap than maple, but more importantly more musical and tonally complex. More electric guitars should use it imo as well as spruce. The original plan actually was to use Mediterranean cypress, but he said the batch of Port Orford Cedar he just got in has exceptional tap tone even better than the Turkish Cypress he has and he seems to be one of the few that actually cares about tone in his guitars
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I already know exactly what its going to sound like lol

The difference, if any, is going to be barely perceptible, mostly because of the short scale, but also because high output pickups become such a huge part of the sound, and both you and dave VASTLY overrate the differences in wood TYPE as having a huge change in sound.

Not that I think the wood doesnt make a difference - I think it does - it just isn't a species specific difference. It literally depends on the age, dryness, and a million other factors more important than the species of wood
 
DanTravis62 said:
I already know exactly what its going to sound like lol

The difference, if any, is going to be barely perceptible, mostly because of the short scale, but also because high output pickups become such a huge part of the sound, and both you and dave VASTLY overrate the differences in wood TYPE as having a huge change in sound.

Not that I think the wood doesnt make a difference - I think it does - it just isn't a species specific difference. It literally depends on the age, dryness, and a million other factors more important than the species of wood
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I would have to disagree strongly based on my experience. I agree of course that unfortunately high outputs will mask a lot of these differences (I mostly use low output pickups) and maybe if we’re talking something like alder, ash and basswood it can be more subtle, but with very different woods like mahogany, maple and rosewood all compared it’s a HUGE difference even I think if one doesn’t have the best ears. The one time I AB’ed my all mahogany ‘57 LP Jr to a ‘50’s all maple version LP Jr even my dad who was there (he’s in 70’s, doesn’t have the best hearing or even play guitar anymore) noted how the maple one sounded so much brighter and different and I guarantee if you heard my all aluminum EGC’s or Carbon Fiber Etherial with the same pickups as my wood guitars they almost sound like comparing different instruments. I think you’re very much underrating the effects of the materials. Of the 100+ guitars I’ve owned and many more I’ve played I have tried with them the same wood species of many different ages and dryness (some roasted, one had Kauri wood that is literally 1000’s of years old, some had mahogany, maple, redwood or pine over 100 years old) of course these factors all make differences, but I always found each wood type still has their own distinctive characteristic sounds much like how an orange or apple has many different varieties, but they still maintain most of their distinctive characteristics of their flavors within their fruit type

I think different ears just hone on some parts of sound more than others. Maybe your’s are more sensitive to the effect of scale length and mine are more sensitive to the materials used. In classical guitar, my main area, I’m friendly with some luthiers and when I’ve been at their workshops one of them (who’s one of my favorites) was surprised at how I identified the types of wood on his guitars based on sound. Even with say Indian vs Brazilian vs Madagascar rosewood after playing enough examples you pickup on the different charactersrics they have vs each other. And with classical guitar the scale lengths vary more than on electric guitars and I again don’t notice hear nearly as much difference in sound from that as I do with materials, but I do notice big differences in how it affects playability (more for me than with electric guitars)
 
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emg's. there's a reason Zakk uses those with maple neck pauls. I have played two norlin era all maple les pauls...one a custom with black block inlays and binding, and the other a standard. They had stock Gibson pickups. Lots of punch but neither was overly brite. That was in the 90's though so take that with a grain of salt.
 
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