gbsmusic
Well-known member
Just out of curiosity do you put the eq before or after the delay & reverb pedals in the loop? Thanks
H
harddriver
Well-known member
Sounded great!
psychodave
Well-known member
Delay into the EQ.
PurityS.L.G
Well-known member
You’ve brought up the medic a few times the past few months. Would you say it’s TS based or something else? I’ve been curious about it for a while now. What do you like the most about it other than the sound of course?
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Not at all TS based. It was marketed as an eq/buffer/boost. I mean any piece of gear I like is because of its sound lol, but besides it being functionally great with its effective eq allowing for a wide range and liking its gain character, it inherently has a raw, organic and gritty quality to it (as all Thorpy’s do IME) that is very satisfying and other nice tonal nuances that you don’t typically get in non-vintage gear. It is very noisy though
I really don’t like 99%+ of recent made pedals. I find often even when they’re off they just have this real filtered, plastic-y quality that makes my core tone worse even if functionally they’re doing something good like tightening, saturating, shaping the eq well, etc. They sound restrained, like they’re holding back/not going all the way vs my vintage pedals and Thorpy’s are among the needles in the haystack of pedals that I find don’t suffer from that and can actually make it better like the good vintage pedals, but maybe their noise is part of the trade off. I’ve only come across like 3 or 4 other non-vintage pedals I’ve liked, but they’re not suited for metal. They’re still not as raw, organic like an actual vintage pedal, but close and are imo a bit more hi-fi or clear in some ways
kmanick
Well-known member
I've used one of these for 20 years.
Does what it needs to
Does what it needs to
Beyond Black
Well-known member
My experience exactly with the Empress PMEQ and the Dirty Tree. They do a cool thing, but the negatives you mentioned outweigh the positives.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Yes exactly and with those 2 pedals in particular the actual TC Integrated Pre its based on does what the Dirty Tree does without the negatives and so many vintage PQ’s that do what the Empress does without the negatives
I only keep modern gear that doesn’t have a vintage equivalent/counterpart like the Fortin TS’s, Thorpy’s or OCD V1.1 as a few cool examples
psychodave
Well-known member
I do agree that new or newer pedals have a different quality about them. Not bad, but different. I wonder if part tolerances are getting too close that there isn’t as much magic happening or just being over build to the point considering impedances on the input/outputs that creates more of a clinical sound?
BB- I love the Dirty Tree for what it does. I have one of the older ones… first few after he stopped using “33”…but still used full sized parts. It sounds incredible in front of a Randall RG100ES. Mine is super quiet as well. I don’t even need a noise gate with it driving the amp hard. I do wish it had more output to really drive the front of a stock Marshall…but even then I’d likely use a different pedal for that.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah it’s certainly subjective, but I’ve grown to really not like the quality they have, but the Thorpy’s for whatever reason doesn’t suffer from it (but are very noisy) and a few other pedals also were able to avoid that filtered sound somehow
The Dirty Tree I had was functionally great no doubt, but had that cardboard-y filtered sound (not as bad as many other pedals though). My TC Integrated Pre can do what it did without that crap. I haven’t played it in a while though now, so will have to check about noise levels and output. It probably is noisy lol, but whatever
I also have a ‘70’s Boulder Notch that can do a similar thing to these pedals, but more subtle/less gain/output and I think was only $60 or $70. It has that organic quality also being that old
Last edited:
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Also not sure if it helps identify or not, but attached below is the version DT I had. The guy who bought it from me loved it
Shask
Well-known member
I have seen you say this many times, and I always wonder what it is specifically that is causing what you are hearing. It is the metal oxide resistors instead of carbon comp? Is it that things in the 70s were more discrete transistors, where now it is more common to have all Op-Amps? Are they filtering the high end more so that they are quieter? Have you tried to swap Op-Amps to see if there is a particular Op-Amp you dont like? Do you like pedals that are all JFET design instead of Op-Amps?
psychodave
Well-known member
I've always wanted to try the original TC IP, but refuse to spend the money.
I'm real curious how different the original and Peper's sound. As mentioned, mine is super quiet and the DT (33) side is almost noiseless. So much so that I considered modifying the circuit to add a small bass trim pot to that side so its not so bottom end neutered. I just dont know my way around pedals. lol
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah I’ll agree it’s overpriced, but it can be great a tool imo (especially in lower tunings), but I don’t even use it often lol
I didn’t admittedly have them side by side, but the Pepper’s definitely had some of that filtered/cardboard-ish sound that I don’t get in the TC. It seems like the TC can go a bit further with output, eq range, like more bass on tap or sharp clank (if desired), but I’d need to AB to confirm. It doesn’t have that neutered thing imo like you mentioned. I’ll have to try it again (it’s been months lol). It probably was pretty noisy, I just don’t remember
B
braintheory
Well-known member
These are all really good questions, but I’m the wrong guy to ask since I’m not tech savvy at all lol. I haven’t done any swaps, but I think I’ve enjoyed vintage pedals with all sorts of various designs and parts. Vintage gear in almost any category just tends to have an organic, more connected quality for me that I find more inspiring to play even though I wasn’t even alive when this stuff came out. Even a lot of ‘80’s and ‘90’s pedals (at least early ‘90’s) seem to have these qualities I like. The earlier ones (especially ‘60’s) just have it a bit more and sometime later it seems gear just started to generally get a bit more neutered or restrained sounding (in 2000’s somewhere maybe). Of course there are exceptions
Beyond Black
Well-known member
I’m not sure what version mine was, but most likely a later one.
I liked how aggressive, tight and punchy it was. It makes the right amp hit like a jackhammer.
But compared to my other boosts (Fortin TS9, Temura TS9, Lil Mo,) it just sounded very plastic, filtered and synthetic imo.
Shask
Well-known member
It is just strange, because for example, the TC Int. Pre vs newer versions like the 33/Grind/DT. That is a super basic circuit. Basically a transistor, an Opamp, and the pots for the EQ. The main difference is the vintage version took a 9v - 32v adapter, where most of the modern versions use a charge pump IC, which takes a 9v power supply and cranks it up to 18v or 27v, so that you dont need a special adapter. Basically, there is not a lot in that circuit that could make it much different. The Opamp used in this circuit is like the cheapest of the cheap, so it is not like that should be much better and modern.
The rack EQs and such make sense, because most racks have their own power supply, where pedals generally take 9V. You are going to have less headroom in a pedal at 9v vs something that plugs directly into the wall.
I know I have seen Dave saying he did not like the Klon style buffers, which uses a TL072 Opamp IC, which is probably the most common IC in pedals these days. I have seen people say they feel 'harder' in comparison to transistor buffers.
The mid 90's kinda makes sense, because that is when many of the modulation pedals starting going to digital, and designs were revised to SMT versions. Rack units quit having their analog front-ends and we went to digital only.
It is just strange to me for pure analog pedals. What could the difference be?
B
braintheory
Well-known member
A lot of vintage pedals I love are supposedly super simple, many I'd think even more so than the TC Int. Some of these vintage pickups (also much better IME) I heard are also quite simple, but that's just what I've heard in comparisons. Maybe other guy's on here would have a decent answer. My guess would be either just something about the older parts or natural aging of them
Many people do find these differences subtle or not enough to matter, but to me they are the difference between finding it inspiring vs a bit boring/more like just a tool to play through. Also, from what I understand cheaper parts doesn't always mean it's bad. Supposedly, maybe I'm totally wrong, but I've heard stories of Dumble using lots of parts that one could buy at a RadioShack, but he was very particular about the values. Whatever he did worked because I haven't yet heard any other amp in that league of the '70's ODS I tried
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I use it with amp to get the sound it does . Only one
E
ewill52
Well-known member
i have this but it's the silver one, fantastic pedal. Only downside - the silver one uses blue LED's that essentially shoot lasers into your eyes. It's like an extra stage light on your board.