renegade refried reverb

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lordofthestrings

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any updates from anyone on the reverb slapback frazzle?
I just got a new Renegade home after taking my Rebel 30 back with a rattle that even the store amp tech couldn't fathom, and lo and behold, the reverb is displaying exactly the symptoms others have described. There is no way this is a "taste" thing.

Btw in between taking the rebel back, and bringing the renegade home, I tried out a Mesa 5:25 at rehearsal last night. I couldn't wait to get the Egnater back. All 5 band members said the Mesa didn't hold a candle to either Egnater I've brought out to practice.

I'm just torn now, a rebel with a rattle or a renegade with frazzle.....but I'm addicted to the tone! :confused:
 
I agree about the Mesas. Buddy of mine has my old Mesa rectifier 50, and it is nice but it is just not as good as the Egnater.

I actually like the 5:25 with one ten inch speaker a lot!

I say go for the Rebel rattle.

:rock:
 
I am also waiting for some feedback on the reverb frazzle. For now, I just reduce the channel volume and increase the gain on the clean channel. I am still getting a crystal clean tone but, with no frazzle. I have not tried this with the band, yet. We will see.
 
As far as what is the "correct way" to set the channel volumes vs the MAIN volume....you should have a reasonable balance between the channels meaning they should not all be full up with the MAIN master just "cracked" open because a few bad things can happen. One you will be sending a very hot signal to the loop and the internal reverb. This can (and will) cause your effects to overload and also distort the internal reverb. You could also be distorting the effects send circuit which will surely "color" the tone is some way. It also makes it harder to play quietly because the MAIN master will be very sensitive. It also is not really recommended to have the MAIN master full up and use the channel volumes for all your adjustments, mainly because you would no longer have the convenience of turning one knob up or down to change the overall volume on the fly


Per Bruce
 
If you want a Rebel 30 to not rattle, buy a separate head and cab....the heads don't rattle
 
ramblin390":22gwm8nb said:
As far as what is the "correct way" to set the channel volumes vs the MAIN volume....you should have a reasonable balance between the channels meaning they should not all be full up with the MAIN master just "cracked" open because a few bad things can happen. One you will be sending a very hot signal to the loop and the internal reverb. This can (and will) cause your effects to overload and also distort the internal reverb. You could also be distorting the effects send circuit which will surely "color" the tone is some way. It also makes it harder to play quietly because the MAIN master will be very sensitive. It also is not really recommended to have the MAIN master full up and use the channel volumes for all your adjustments, mainly because you would no longer have the convenience of turning one knob up or down to change the overall volume on the fly


Per Bruce
Click to expand...

interesting ramblin...thanks. I'm gonna check this out.
I think I'm going to keep the renegade as I can get it for about an extra $90 over the rebel. Just seems to be a lot more amp for that money. :thumbsup:
 
This was actually taken a little out of context from another thread titled channel volume vs master. It does sound like a bit of ramolbing unless you read the thread. This is the complete response.

Good questions. A guitar amp is not that different from any other type of audio gear that has gain stages with volume knobs between them. By that I mean, for example, a mixing console typically has an input gain control that controls the gain of the preamp, similar to the gain knob on a guitar amp. Next on the mixer is the channel fader, which could be compared to the volume knob on a guitar amp channel. The last level control on the mixer is the main output faders/volume which are basically the same function as the MAIN master on the guitar amp. In between the channel volume and the MAIN master is the effects loop. So what did we just explain? Your guitar comes into the preamp and goes first to the gain control. It is at this stage that you create the distortion/tone etc. Now your "conditioned" signal/tone goes into the channel volume (fader). This knob also controls the amount of signal that is sent to the effects loop and also to the internal reverb circuit (if there is one). The gain and tone controls are simply set to get the sound you want. The channel volume controls are there so that you can "balance" the levels of each channel in relation to each other (just like on the mixing console). The MAIN master makes it easy to adjust your overall volume without having to readjust each individual channel.
As far as what is the "correct way" to set the channel volumes vs the MAIN volume....you should have a reasonable balance between the channels meaning they should not all be full up with the MAIN master just "cracked" open because a few bad things can happen. One you will be sending a very hot signal to the loop and the internal reverb. This can (and will) cause your effects to overload and also distort the internal reverb. You could also be distorting the effects send circuit which will surely "color" the tone is some way. It also makes it harder to play quietly because the MAIN master will be very sensitive. It also is not really recommended to have the MAIN master full up and use the channel volumes for all your adjustments, mainly because you would no longer have the convenience of turning one knob up or down to change the overall volume on the fly. A practical setting for the MAIN master is probably between noonish and about 3:00 depending on how loud you play. Just like on a mixing console, you would not have all the channel faders full up and the MAIN volume down because you would be overloading circuit stages that are after the channels but before the master. You would also not set the MAIN master up so high that you can only "crack" open the channel volumes with it getting too loud. If you have one of the newer Egnater amps, the manuals do show some good starting points to get you in the ballpark. On the modular stuff, I suggest setting the master on your cleanest module to around 3:00-4:00 and the gain around 9:00-11:00 and see where your main master ends up according to how loud you play. The point is you should have some reasonable balance between the channel volumes and MAIN volume so that none are almost off while the others are full up. FYI, because we just learned that the loop and reverb are after the channel masters but before the MAIN, you can think of the channel volumes as send controls and the MAIN master as the effects return.
 
thanks for posting this again Bruce.
It's contributions like this that helped convince me to get an Egnater!
 
FYI, we are still working on this. Please don't think we blew you off.
 
That's great Bruce. Thanks!

FWIW... my reverb has been fine since I posted that clip... :confused: :confused:
 
Did it seem worse the louder you play? Have you not played as loud since the last time it did it?
 
I don't have a Renegade, but I have been following this. Just to make sure I understand: Is the problem, in essence, that the CHANNEL master drives the input to the digital reverb, and if you have the chanel master up too high you overload the digital input and get digital distortion which we all know is horrendous?

So, to solve it, they have to turn down the channel master, in which case they lose the tone they like.

Is that about it?

Just curious.

:confused: :rock:
 
bruce egnater":3gckcrrq said:
Did it seem worse the louder you play? Have you not played as loud since the last time it did it?
Click to expand...

When it was fizzing on me, it didn't seem to matter how loud I played.

I've played loud since then. I've also played almost every day.

I'll be honest Bruce, I really don't have a good answer as to what caused it or why I haven't heard it in the past 2 weeks. :confused:

Sorry I can't be more help. I've taken your advice (only in the past couple of days) from the other thread - turning down my channel volumes and turning up the master to about half. But again, that was only recently.

I'll continue to answer questions as you ask them, but I'm finding nothing I do will consistently cause or remedy the situation... It's just decided to work recently. sorry.
 
Ok, I have tried to troubleshoot this reverb problem in many ways. I only use reverb on my clean channel at this time and my settings are as followed: 65w, tight, nornal, gain 10, bass 3, mids 9, treble 1. I am still getting the annoying noise. Until recently, I had my channel 1 volume dimed and the gain around 830- 9. I really loved the tone I was getting but I had to turn the reverb off, it was unbearable. Now, this reverb fizzle, or whatever you want to call it, is not as noticable when I play in a more open area (garage). I notice it more in my jam room (small room). Don't know if this helps at all, just my 2 cents.
 
Can you record it?????? Even with a video camera so I can hear it???? THANKS!!!!
 
I think I fixed the problem. I put the master volume at 12 and adjusted my clean channel volume to 11 and gain to 1. I can turn the reverb all the way up if I wanted and not get the overdriven snare sound. I also adjusted channel 2 but I don't really use reverb on the dirt. Here is a video of my amp and me going through the reverb.
 
Holtman is on the right track as a temporary measure until we identify and tweak it but.....I am going to try again to clarify how the amps work.
On most guitar amps, turning the channel volume up/down typically controls the amount of signal that is sent to the reverb drive circuit. The reverb knob then adjusts the amount of reverb that is mixed back in with you dry guitar tone. Ours is a little different for a good reason. In the Egnater amps, the reverb knobs are "send" controls as opposed to return controls. This is how we accomplish the "spillover" feature. Spillover allows the reverb to decay normally even if you switch channels while the reverb is still sustaining. That way you don't cut off the reverb "tail" and it decays naturally. It just sounds more natural when it is not cut off. By "Send" control, I mean the reverb level knobs control the amount of signal that goes into the reverb drive circuit as opposed to the signal coming out of the reverb circuit. It basically follows the channel volume just like a post fader effects send on a mixer. Let's say you have your channel volume set to 2:00 and your reverb level at 10:00. Now you decide to play louder so you increase the channel volume to full up. Because you did not change the reverb knob setting, you also increased the drive into the reverb by that same amount. On most amps, you would now need to readjust the reverb level because there would some distortion and just too much reverb. Admittedly, overloading a spring reverb is not as noticeable as overloading a digital reverb. On the Egnater amps, decreasing the channel volume will have the same effect on the reverb as decreasing the reverb level knob. In other words, if you like the sound of the amp with the clean master full up....fine, do that. Now adjusting the reverb level knob will control how much is sent to the reverb drive. You should be able to get plenty of reverb without overloading it. If you continue to turn the reverb level knob up, at some point you probably will start to overload the reverb circuit and it will sound bad. I am working on adjusting the levels to prevent that but, in the meantime, please try what I just explained.
 
If I have my clean channel volume all the way up, I can only increase the reverb to where it is barely on. If I increase it any more it makes the snare or fuzz noise. The only way I can get good reverb is the way I set my channels in the vid.
 
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