Rick Beato shows tone changes on a Variac - EVH content

[311splawndude]

Pretty cool. Had to share. Definite differences between 120v and 89v

 

[311splawndude]

Completely unrelated to Rick or variacs but this was a cool story believe me once he gets going with the main part of the story. His band opened for Van Halen probably around the Balance era.

 

[Markedman]

Interesting. I didn't notice that much difference but I'll take his word that it sounds and feels different when you're in the room with the amp. My power is at 127 volts! I should get a variac.

I did notice that the Les Paul had a bad screechy sound that would drive me crazy if I owned it. And that Park amp was sweeeeeeet!

 

[SoooRad]

I think that they would've got a better sound if he just plugged straight into the bright channel (no jumping), and jacked the presence to 10 to get some of that extra gain.

It's been awhile since I used a variac, but I would agree that I don't recall the 'sound' being super different. But it feels different, and reduces the volume a bit.

 

[paulyc]

This test doesn't take into account EVH having the bias cranked in the amp to "offset" the reduced voltage, or if the amp had a Jose master volume mod I'm sure this test would be even closer.

 

[JimAnsell]

Interesting. I didn't notice that much difference but I'll take his word that it sounds and feels different when you're in the room with the amp. My power is at 127 volts! I should get a variac.

I did notice that the Les Paul had a bad screechy sound that would drive me crazy if I owned it. And that Park amp was sweeeeeeet!

yeah i really didn't hear much of a difference either. my audio technica ath-m50 cans aren't the best in the world, but yeah...i guess my dog ears have been worn down over the years.

evh had less polluted, early 80's air in between his amp and the mic. all the carcinogens in the current 2020 air block some of the high end

also, the humidity in the california air was a bit less dense than in the midwest where its more humid and cooler. so that plays a huge factor in getting eddies sound.

Blood alcohol and nicotine content also helped eddie get those wicked vibratos, and contrbuted to the feel of his tone.

...ok i'll stop now

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

 

[paulyc]

If the amp had a Jose master the volume could have been entirely manageable.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

If the amp had a Jose master the volume could have been entirely manageable.

For sure. If I were a betting man, I would hedge that he might have used both depending on the gig and how much gear he could get there.

 

[stanz]

I used the on-board variac extensively on my Mojave "Dirty Boy" amp. I didn't notice a difference in tone. Feel and response, sure. 110VAC to 117VAC seems to be the sweet zone. Sold the DB, went back to Marshall and VOX. I use a bucking transformer to keep the voltage around 115VAC.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I've never even given a second thought to the power in my home and what it actually is running at.. I should check that out.

 

[romanianreaper]

I definitely noticed a difference without a doubt. First riff without the variac, was more stiff. It started getting bouncy and I think the "feel" changes. Because of that, I think the player naturally lets the chord changes breathe a bit more. Spongy is such a great word for it.

 

[stanz]

I've never even given a second thought to the power in my home and what it actually is running at.. I should check that out.

With higher voltage, I do hear a difference. Not so much a difference tone, but a "fizzy" carrier signal (piggy-backed on the top end) that doesn't belong. Starts to show itself at around 118VAC and increases with voltage. With a proper bias setting, 115VAC to 117VAC is perfect.

Setting up a tube amp to run a variac includes taking incremental readings at the heaters, so that you know how low you can before starving the heaters. A dedicated transformer to supply the heaters is the way to go. Once you have that, you can dial the variac from 0VAC up to 120VAC with no risk of tube damage. IMO, there's really no benefit to doing this. Especially for those who are playing 80's style metal tones; which require a quick response. Lowering the line voltage slows the charge (flow rate) to the filtering capacitors, resulting in a slower picking response/release. As a matter of fact, if you lower the voltage enough, you can literally hear the caps charging-up through the speaker cabinet. Sounds like a volume swell, sort-of.

The Guitar Oasis tech who rebuilt Ed's '68 plexi told me that the Marshall OEM transformers had been removed by Jose, long before the amp came to him. He couldn't secure an OEM set, so he wound a new set as close to OEM specs as he could get. As far as I know, those are what is in the amp today. Whether the originals were damaged as a result of varaic use, I don't recall?

 

[Nigel]

This test doesn't take into account EVH having the bias cranked in the amp to "offset" the reduced voltage, or if the amp had a Jose master volume mod I'm sure this test would be even closer.

This is huge. When I did that to my Rivera M60, using the half-power/220v B+ setting, the tone turned heads.

Did a little amp shoot out in Nashville this weekend and one of the guys had a rack brown box. We took a Marshall down to I think 106 or something, and IMMEDIATELY the EVH style Kramer in play got so late 70's VH tone. It really is the missing piece...but you have to bias up!

EVH proved you don't get reward without risk and the ballers don't play for safety first.

No new ground was ever *likely* broken by one who pleads "but muh 70% max idle."

 

[blackba]

I've never even given a second thought to the power in my home and what it actually is running at.. I should check that out.

With higher voltage, I do hear a difference. Not so much a difference tone, but a "fizzy" carrier signal (piggy-backed on the top end) that doesn't belong. Starts to show itself at around 118VAC and increases with voltage. With a proper bias setting, 115VAC to 117VAC is perfect.

Setting up a tube amp to run a variac includes taking incremental readings at the heaters, so that you know how low you can before starving the heaters. A dedicated transformer to supply the heaters is the way to go. Once you have that, you can dial the variac from 0VAC up to 120VAC with no risk of tube damage. IMO, there's really no benefit to doing this. Especially for those who are playing 80's style metal tones; which require a quick response. Lowering the line voltage slows the charge (flow rate) to the filtering capacitors, resulting in a slower picking response/release. As a matter of fact, if you lower the voltage enough, you can literally hear the caps charging-up through the speaker cabinet. Sounds like a volume swell, sort-of.

The Guitar Oasis tech who rebuilt Ed's '68 plexi told me that the Marshall OEM transformers had been removed by Jose, long before the amp came to him. He couldn't secure an OEM set, so he wound a new set as close to OEM specs as he could get. As far as I know, those are what is in the amp today. Whether the originals were damaged as a result of varaic use, I don't recall?

+1, many forgot to check the tube heater voltage.

For me I run my vintage amps on a lower voltage mainly to get more margin for the tubes and Filter caps and then I bias accordingly. I use a Amprx Brownie to step down the voltage and it works great. I do notice a small tone change, but its more about not pushing the components so hard.

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/vari ... gIhvfD_BwE
I recently got one of these variacs, so far it seems like a viable option for those wanting to check out lower voltages on the cheap. Some drawbacks, the knob feels cheap, the accuracy is within a few volts and not consistent (so not always 2V above for example), and it is still off gasing. I will not leave this variac plugged into the wall outlet when not using it that is for sure, it will be on a power strip.

 

[ewill52]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

I'm going to admit - I have no idea how slaving works. How does this work or how would have this worked?

 

[311splawndude]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

I'm going to admit - I have no idea how slaving works. How does this work or how would have this worked?

Basically using a load (box) AND THEN take the amp(s) preamp section and feed it into either another amp (and repeat) or ultimately into a separate power amp. The diagram below depicts how Eddie did it in the early days. Later on, he was known (I believe) to string multiple amp's preamps together.

Not the expert here but this will help....(from lengendarytones.com)

The second way Edward controlled his overall output volume was that he would use a dummy load box after the Marshall head, in effect making the Marshall a preamp for the entire system. The output of the load box would then run through his effects which would then be sent to the input stage of a power amplifier (most often an H & H V800 MOS-FET model according to the September 1986 issue of Guitar World). The speaker output of his Marshall was set at 8 ohms and the dummy load box resistance was set to 20 ohms to help ease the strain of the amplifier being run at full volume.

The benefit of the dummy load configuration was not simply to control the volume levels (Edward liked things loud!), but also to enable his time-based effects to work and sound well within the signal chain. Anyone who has tried to run a flanger or a delay in front of a fully cranked Marshall will realize that the effects just don’t work well. In the case of the flanger, this is because the power tube distortion will compress and distort the flanger’s sweep and dynamics will be eliminated. For a delay run in this fashion, the repeats of a delay will be amplified and compressed also and not sound like a true echo. When Edward ran the Echoplex in between the Marshall and the H & H power amp, it also made the Echoplex much less noisy in addition to simply producing a better tone.

https://legendarytones.com/edward-van-h ... own-sound/

1. MXR e.q. set up as midboost (* only occasionally used depending on the guitar)
2. Marshall plexi Super Lead, unmodified, although simple modifications such as a cascaded input stage or added gain through capacitor/resistor exchanges may have been made.
3. Ohmite VARIAC set to approximately 90 Volts A/C
4. Dummy Load
5. MXR Flanger
6. MXR Phase 90 (** This was sometimes put in front of the amp instead of after the dummy load)
7. Echoplex EP3
8. (***Equalization sometimes added prior to power amp)
9. H & H power amp
10. Various Marshall cabinets (sometimes two, sometimes four) used with various Celestion and JBL speakers

^although not hooked up on that last pic, you get the idea. He wouldn't bring that many amps on a tour for show (but maybe) but they were NOT all hooked up - some were just for back up (or for show).

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Also, it isn't just the preamp but also the power section that he would be reamping/slaving through his second amp then. Even more mojo. After all, you have to turn up the whole thing on the NMV to get the gain it is known for. In fact I think the same goes for any Marshall, you want to tap off the speaker jack to get the goods and then route through FX and / another power amp to control the ear splitting volume. Or else you might as well just use the master amp's MV. If it has no FX loop then you could do it this way but that's about it.

 

[stanz]

I've never even given a second thought to the power in my home and what it actually is running at.. I should check that out.

With higher voltage, I do hear a difference. Not so much a difference tone, but a "fizzy" carrier signal (piggy-backed on the top end) that doesn't belong. Starts to show itself at around 118VAC and increases with voltage. With a proper bias setting, 115VAC to 117VAC is perfect.

Setting up a tube amp to run a variac includes taking incremental readings at the heaters, so that you know how low you can before starving the heaters. A dedicated transformer to supply the heaters is the way to go. Once you have that, you can dial the variac from 0VAC up to 120VAC with no risk of tube damage. IMO, there's really no benefit to doing this. Especially for those who are playing 80's style metal tones; which require a quick response. Lowering the line voltage slows the charge (flow rate) to the filtering capacitors, resulting in a slower picking response/release. As a matter of fact, if you lower the voltage enough, you can literally hear the caps charging-up through the speaker cabinet. Sounds like a volume swell, sort-of.

The Guitar Oasis tech who rebuilt Ed's '68 plexi told me that the Marshall OEM transformers had been removed by Jose, long before the amp came to him. He couldn't secure an OEM set, so he wound a new set as close to OEM specs as he could get. As far as I know, those are what is in the amp today. Whether the originals were damaged as a result of varaic use, I don't recall?

+1, many forgot to check the tube heater voltage.

For me I run my vintage amps on a lower voltage mainly to get more margin for the tubes and Filter caps and then I bias accordingly. I use a Amprx Brownie to step down the voltage and it works great. I do notice a small tone change, but its more about not pushing the components so hard.

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/vari ... gIhvfD_BwE
I recently got one of these variacs, so far it seems like a viable option for those wanting to check out lower voltages on the cheap. Some drawbacks, the knob feels cheap, the accuracy is within a few volts and not consistent (so not always 2V above for example), and it is still off gasing. I will not leave this variac plugged into the wall outlet when not using it that is for sure, it will be on a power strip.

AmpRx is the one I use too. You can build one on the cheap, but you'll need to add digital read-out for the voltage. It won't have the adjustability of the Brown Box, but it works just fine.

 

[ewill52]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

I'm going to admit - I have no idea how slaving works. How does this work or how would have this worked?

Basically using a load (box) to take the amp(s) preamp section and feed it into either another amp (and repeat) or ultimately into a separate power amp. The diagram below depicts how Eddie did it in the early days. Later on, he was known (I believe) to string multiple amp's preamps together.

Not the expert here but this will help....(from lengendarytones.com)

The second way Edward controlled his overall output volume was that he would use a dummy load box after the Marshall head, in effect making the Marshall a preamp for the entire system. The output of the load box would then run through his effects which would then be sent to the input stage of a power amplifier (most often an H & H V800 MOS-FET model according to the September 1986 issue of Guitar World). The speaker output of his Marshall was set at 8 ohms and the dummy load box resistance was set to 20 ohms to help ease the strain of the amplifier being run at full volume.

The benefit of the dummy load configuration was not simply to control the volume levels (Edward liked things loud!), but also to enable his time-based effects to work and sound well within the signal chain. Anyone who has tried to run a flanger or a delay in front of a fully cranked Marshall will realize that the effects just don’t work well. In the case of the flanger, this is because the power tube distortion will compress and distort the flanger’s sweep and dynamics will be eliminated. For a delay run in this fashion, the repeats of a delay will be amplified and compressed also and not sound like a true echo. When Edward ran the Echoplex in between the Marshall and the H & H power amp, it also made the Echoplex much less noisy in addition to simply producing a better tone.

https://legendarytones.com/edward-van-h ... own-sound/

1. MXR e.q. set up as midboost (* only occasionally used depending on the guitar)
2. Marshall plexi Super Lead, unmodified, although simple modifications such as a cascaded input stage or added gain through capacitor/resistor exchanges may have been made.
3. Ohmite VARIAC set to approximately 90 Volts A/C
4. Dummy Load
5. MXR Flanger
6. MXR Phase 90 (** This was sometimes put in front of the amp instead of after the dummy load)
7. Echoplex EP3
8. (***Equalization sometimes added prior to power amp)
9. H & H power amp
10. Various Marshall cabinets (sometimes two, sometimes four) used with various Celestion and JBL speakers

^although not hooked up on that last pic, you get the idea. He wouldn't bring that many amps on a tour for show (but maybe) but they were NOT all hooked up - some were just for back up (or for show).

ahhhhh.....that makes sense, thank you so much for the detailed explanation!