Rick Beato shows tone changes on a Variac - EVH content

[stanz]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

I'm going to admit - I have no idea how slaving works. How does this work or how would have this worked?

Basically using a load (box) to take the amp(s) preamp section and feed it into either another amp (and repeat) or ultimately into a separate power amp. The diagram below depicts how Eddie did it in the early days. Later on, he was known (I believe) to string multiple amp's preamps together.

Not the expert here but this will help....(from lengendarytones.com)

The second way Edward controlled his overall output volume was that he would use a dummy load box after the Marshall head, in effect making the Marshall a preamp for the entire system. The output of the load box would then run through his effects which would then be sent to the input stage of a power amplifier (most often an H & H V800 MOS-FET model according to the September 1986 issue of Guitar World). The speaker output of his Marshall was set at 8 ohms and the dummy load box resistance was set to 20 ohms to help ease the strain of the amplifier being run at full volume.

The benefit of the dummy load configuration was not simply to control the volume levels (Edward liked things loud!), but also to enable his time-based effects to work and sound well within the signal chain. Anyone who has tried to run a flanger or a delay in front of a fully cranked Marshall will realize that the effects just don’t work well. In the case of the flanger, this is because the power tube distortion will compress and distort the flanger’s sweep and dynamics will be eliminated. For a delay run in this fashion, the repeats of a delay will be amplified and compressed also and not sound like a true echo. When Edward ran the Echoplex in between the Marshall and the H & H power amp, it also made the Echoplex much less noisy in addition to simply producing a better tone.

https://legendarytones.com/edward-van-h ... own-sound/

1. MXR e.q. set up as midboost (* only occasionally used depending on the guitar)
2. Marshall plexi Super Lead, unmodified, although simple modifications such as a cascaded input stage or added gain through capacitor/resistor exchanges may have been made.
3. Ohmite VARIAC set to approximately 90 Volts A/C
4. Dummy Load
5. MXR Flanger
6. MXR Phase 90 (** This was sometimes put in front of the amp instead of after the dummy load)
7. Echoplex EP3
8. (***Equalization sometimes added prior to power amp)
9. H & H power amp
10. Various Marshall cabinets (sometimes two, sometimes four) used with various Celestion and JBL speakers

^although not hooked up on that last pic, you get the idea. He wouldn't bring that many amps on a tour for show (but maybe) but they were NOT all hooked up - some were just for back up (or for show).

I believe the above signal chain ended up being his live rig. The early (studio) rig used a VOX AC15 in the place of the Marshall plexi, and a Marshall plexi in place of the HIH power amp. I was told that he also used a Music Man + Marshall rig for live shows. As I said, I've never seen anything to indicate this to be true. I did see a couple of photos of his studio VOX/Marshall set-up. The problem with using a VOX AC15 as the (preamp) amp, is excessive compression and tube failure. Moving to the plexi/HIH configuration makes sense. I tried the Marshall + power amp, but I couldn't get the output to sound the way I wanted. Just wanted to see if I could do it.

 

[ElectricVoodoo]

I heard hardly any difference. Hopefully the feel was improved. I'd love to try this one day

 

[311splawndude]

I heard hardly any difference. Hopefully the feel was improved. I'd love to try this one day

Yeah. But as mentioned it wasn't so much a tonal change as a feel change. If you listen to the comparison part Rick does half way through where he shows the extremes you can hear the 'feel' part. Where it gets a little spongier. Even in the video you can see the guitarist hit strings vs what is coming out of the speaker. Almost like a delayed effect. The guitarist even talks about that.

I can see why Eddie might have liked that but I personally would hate that 'lack of tracking'.

No wonder he played 'behind the beat'

 

[ElectricVoodoo]

That could be a possibility. He probably did it spontaneously just to adjust. I always felt that if the amp has a bad touch response, that I was totally uninspired from it. My mesa mark V 35watt did that to me. I was disappointed in it big time.

 

[romanianreaper]

I will say this, and obviously know that my old AxeFx-II is not an actual amp, but even with the emulated variac in the unit, I could feel a difference and got me closer to his tone.

One other thing. I do agree with the "tone is in the fingers" idea and have since I first started playing. However, like the U2's Edge, Eddie, or other players with a few tricks up their sleeves, you will get closer to their tone (regardless of fingers) by adjusting the effects, etc. There is no doubt that with a variac, Phase 90, some echo and a good Marshall, you can get there.

 

[stanz]

90VAC is a lousey operating range, and I have my doubts as to the validity of Ed's claim. 110VAC = 6.3V to the heaters. 90VAC = 4.3V to the heaters! There's no-way to maintain nominal heater voltage @ 90VAC. To do that for any length of time, you would need to have a separate transformer supplying 6.3V to the heaters. I suspect this may be why Ed was trashing transformers.

When I use a variac, I run it into a Furman strip w/LED readout for constant monitoring. My Marshall has been set-up to operate within a partucular min/max range, so that the heaters never see lower than 5.7V and no higher than 6.6V.

Here's what I do:
1. Connect a voltmeter to the heaters.
2. Begin at 120VAC and adjust the variac until the heater voltage reads 6.3V on the meter... Log the reading. This is the (normal) operating voltage for this amplifier/tube set.
3. Set the tube bias.
4. Slowly decrease variac voltage, until the heater voltage reads 5.7V on the meter.... Log this reading. This as your lowest allowable voltage setting for this amplfier/tube set.
5. Repeat step 4, except this time you're going to raise the voltage until the heater voltage reads 6.6V... Log this reading. This is your highest allowable voltage setting for this amplifer.

Tape a note somewhere on the amp that denotes the min/max operating voltages for this particular amplifier. You will need to repeat this process whenever you change the power tubes.

Note: Modern transformers may result in alternate readings. e.g. 110VAC vs 120VAC relating to the 6.3V heater supply. Use the same process with consideration to the operating voltages in your amplifier.

 

[Stradazone]

AND don't forget slaving!

Because no way he was running those full pin in the clubs. But yes, that Beato video is cool, I def. hear the difference.

A dimed Marshall Superlead variac'd down to 90 volts is about 50 watts, bring it down to around 75 volts easily down to 40 watts, very manageable volume especially at that time, bands would play with much more stage volume in the 70's and 80's in the clubs, not like nowadays..

 

[blackba]

90VAC is a lousey operating range, and I have my doubts as to the validity of Ed's claim. 110VAC = 6.3V to the heaters. 90VAC = 4.3V to the heaters! There's no-way to maintain nominal heater voltage @ 90VAC. To do that for any length of time, you would need to have a separate transformer supplying 6.3V to the heaters. I suspect this may be why Ed was trashing transformers.

When I use a variac, I run it into a Furman strip w/LED readout for constant monitoring. My Marshall has been set-up to operate within a partucular min/max range, so that the heaters never see lower than 5.7V and no higher than 6.6V.

Here's what I do:
1. Connect a voltmeter to the heaters.
2. Begin at 120VAC and adjust the variac until the heater voltage reads 6.3V on the meter... Log the reading. This is the (normal) operating voltage for this amplifier/tube set.
3. Set the tube bias.
4. Slowly decrease variac voltage, until the heater voltage reads 5.7V on the meter.... Log this reading. This as your lowest allowable voltage setting for this amplfier/tube set.
5. Repeat step 4, except this time you're going to raise the voltage until the heater voltage reads 6.6V... Log this reading. This is your highest allowable voltage setting for this amplifer.

Tape a note somewhere on the amp that denotes the min/max operating voltages for this particular amplifier. You will need to repeat this process whenever you change the power tubes.

Note: Modern transformers may result in alternate readings. e.g. 110VAC vs 120VAC relating to the 6.3V heater supply. Use the same process with consideration to the operating voltages in your amplifier.

I found that on my '66 Vox AC50 that the heater voltage is 6.3V at 113VAC, so I set the bias at that voltage and run the amp there. sounds great, plus gave me more margin on the max plate voltage on the EL34's.

And keeping your heater voltage to +/- 5% of 6.3V makes sense, thanks for sharing.

 

[stanz]

90VAC is a lousey operating range, and I have my doubts as to the validity of Ed's claim. 110VAC = 6.3V to the heaters. 90VAC = 4.3V to the heaters! There's no-way to maintain nominal heater voltage @ 90VAC. To do that for any length of time, you would need to have a separate transformer supplying 6.3V to the heaters. I suspect this may be why Ed was trashing transformers.

When I use a variac, I run it into a Furman strip w/LED readout for constant monitoring. My Marshall has been set-up to operate within a partucular min/max range, so that the heaters never see lower than 5.7V and no higher than 6.6V.

Here's what I do:
1. Connect a voltmeter to the heaters.
2. Begin at 120VAC and adjust the variac until the heater voltage reads 6.3V on the meter... Log the reading. This is the (normal) operating voltage for this amplifier/tube set.
3. Set the tube bias.
4. Slowly decrease variac voltage, until the heater voltage reads 5.7V on the meter.... Log this reading. This as your lowest allowable voltage setting for this amplfier/tube set.
5. Repeat step 4, except this time you're going to raise the voltage until the heater voltage reads 6.6V... Log this reading. This is your highest allowable voltage setting for this amplifer.

Tape a note somewhere on the amp that denotes the min/max operating voltages for this particular amplifier. You will need to repeat this process whenever you change the power tubes.

Note: Modern transformers may result in alternate readings. e.g. 110VAC vs 120VAC relating to the 6.3V heater supply. Use the same process with consideration to the operating voltages in your amplifier.

I found that on my '66 Vox AC50 that the heater voltage is 6.3V at 113VAC, so I set the bias at that voltage and run the amp there. sounds great, plus gave me more margin on the max plate voltage on the EL34's.

And keeping your heater voltage to +/- 5% of 6.3V makes sense, thanks for sharing.

'66 AC50

 

[lll]

Like someone said, doing this the correct Ed way would be:

- plug into upper left input only
- bias amp *after* dropping voltage

I modded my amp (JTM45RI modded to somewhat plexi specs) in 2013 to run a variac at about 100v (90v was too mushy for 50 watter) by changing the bias resistor.

I biased the amp after I had dropped the voltage so the 6CA7s were idling around 40mAs.

Here's a quick n dirty clip I did back then with 1 SM57 on speaker, Flanger added in DAW (no EQ or other polish).

Guitars are me, backing track is Al & Mike:

https://soundcloud.com/lefty-lounge-lizard/lll-u-redux

 

[stanz]

When I dime the volume on my AC15, I get a cool "sag" that doesn't require any special tweaks; other than running my Brown Box at 110VAC. Not quite as much sag as the AC30 (w/GZ34 rectifier), but the volume isn't nearly as punishing.

The thing about lowering the line voltage, is that wears you out! If you're use to playing with standard voltage, you'll find that you really have to stay on the strings to get the goods. Sort of like walking through mud. It's cool to mess with, but I guarantee that you'll go back to the traditional setting. The "Dirty Boy" amplifier has scalable voltage and scalable biasing. In every instance, I prefered a setting of 115VAC/117VAC on the variac w/centered tube biasing.

 

[TheWhiteShadow]

I heard hardly any difference. Hopefully the feel was improved. I'd love to try this one day

Yeah. But as mentioned it wasn't so much a tonal change as a feel change. If you listen to the comparison part Rick does half way through where he shows the extremes you can hear the 'feel' part. Where it gets a little spongier. Even in the video you can see the guitarist hit strings vs what is coming out of the speaker. Almost like a delayed effect. The guitarist even talks about that.

I can see why Eddie might have liked that but I personally would hate that 'lack of tracking'.

No wonder he played 'behind the beat'

I was thinking the same...behind the beat...but it certainly played a huge part in his rhythm playing especially, felt smoother.
Why don't these "testers" every play lead parts, JF we all get the rhythm tones I wanna hear the effect on the lead parts.