Seasoned Micro Pitch Shift users advice requested

[mentoneman]

I really like the Intellifex, but mostly for Reverb and 8 Voice Chorus. I dont like its Pitch/Detune at all. I think the Replifex does this much better than the Intellifex.

my buddy Ryan/Analogkid did a deep dive into the intellifex and is like the guru of that box, and determined that 0ms on that thing is actually many ms (i wanna say 33ms but that sounds like alot!) of latency. i too had and liked the 8v chorus and ducking delay in that box. and the mxr flanger in the replifex was spot on. cool leslies too.

 

[mentoneman]

Interesting. Does the H3000 feel different to you than an H9 for micro pitch?
I don't know of any or how it could be done, but are there any analog micro pitches? I keep in the effects loop with any other time based effects. From a quick search, looks like it adds 1-2ms of latency.

1) yes feel is very different to me and the rack is generally just more precise and open sounding with increased headroom, as if you have a cleaner more accurate dynamic response and realism from your fingertip on the string to the sound hitting your ears. the earlier eventide and lexicon and yamaha rack boxes were warmer and filtered more highs due (i think ) to lower bitrates, converter types, and partially lopass filtered stuff out on purpose to mask the harsh digital processing artifacts inherent in early digital delay/reverb tech.

the later stuff became more transparent and easier to hide in a mix if desired as the bit resolution increased and converters and CPU speed was better able to mimic reality without as much coloring and process more complex algorithms.

a pcm 60/70 warmth versus a pcm 91 airy glass is very apparent. same with spx90 v spx 2000 and eventide H3000 v H8000. YMMV

2) analog pitch shifting existed in 1944 and ADA did one in ‘79, but was generally an experimental stepping stone into industry standard digital shifters.

 

[mentoneman]

I'm on this journey myself. In terms of rack gear, I've tried:

AxeFx III
PCM81
MPX1
G-Force
G-Major 2
Intellifex
Intellipitch
Multivalve
IPS 33B

The Leon Todd comparison was kinda strange because not all of them sounded equal. H9 and Micropitch pedal sounded especially bad IMO. I got an Eclipse on the way...again. Will see what that's like and go from there. Liked that the most from his demo, too. Sounded the most pure and accurate to what a pitch detune should be.

i’d like to think that was the point of the comparison; to demo the overall sonic quality and not just the effect which is found in many devices.
similarly, he also did a comp between the rack 2290 and the pedal. i’m impressed enough that i’d like to get the pedal, but i did hear a slight difference favoring the rack and i feel very fortunate to have one in my rack!

speaking of racks,
i went to my friend’s studio and picked up my repaired korg dl8000 today-yay! new encoders are my friend!

but the H3000 is still DOA as he methodically swaps out old tantalum caps trying to track down the cause of the short…

i did get to drool at his studio racks loaded with gold

 

[Shask]

my buddy Ryan/Analogkid did a deep dive into the intellifex and is like the guru of that box, and determined that 0ms on that thing is actually many ms (i wanna say 33ms but that sounds like alot!) of latency. i too had and liked the 8v chorus and ducking delay in that box. and the mxr flanger in the replifex was spot on. cool leslies too.

Yeah, I have read that and have his presets loaded on mine. Yeah, the detune sounds more like a delay or chorus than detune.

The Replifex has an actual pitch detune that sounds good. You can even run it into the chorus, so it can actually get more 80s than the Intellifex, imo. The real downfall of the Replifex is the limited reverb. Not having pre-delay is what kills it for me.

 

[Shask]

I'm on this journey myself. In terms of rack gear, I've tried:

AxeFx III
PCM81
MPX1
G-Force
G-Major 2
Intellifex
Intellipitch
Multivalve
IPS 33B

The Leon Todd comparison was kinda strange because not all of them sounded equal. H9 and Micropitch pedal sounded especially bad IMO. I got an Eclipse on the way...again. Will see what that's like and go from there. Liked that the most from his demo, too. Sounded the most pure and accurate to what a pitch detune should be.

I think the Fractal stuff is the best detune I have, but I don't have Eventide. I think the G Major 2 does a good job also.

 

[Code001]

I think the Fractal stuff is the best detune I have, but I don't have Eventide. I think the G Major 2 does a good job also.

AxeFx was my favorite, followed by the G-Force in that list. Getting my H90 sent me down a rabbit hole of all this classic gear again. Maybe I'll report back when my Eclipse arrives.

 

[Shask]

AxeFx was my favorite, followed by the G-Force in that list. Getting my H90 sent me down a rabbit hole of all this classic gear again. Maybe I'll report back when my Eclipse arrives.

I like playing with all these other units, but it is definitely hard to not just say F it and go all Fractal.

 

[Dave L]

I think that’s the whole impetus for W/D/W ?

I always figured that was Bob just doing some product innovation to drum up sales when everyone already had a stereo rack, but yeah, part of the pitch (no pun intended) was to have more separation and a clearer dry signal. It´s not that different from a well-designed stereo rig to my ears and comes with a particular set of drawbacks if you go 100% in the wet cabs like guys do now, but some folks do like it.

 

[mentoneman]

I think the Fractal stuff is the best detune I have, but I don't have Eventide. I think the G Major 2 does a good job also.

there is a sector of rack purists who like to call out fractal for “berhingering” those that came before them, and are generally unhappy with the product.
my personal experience having owned and used an ultra live is that it’s a very cool and great sounding multifx product for guitarists, with top quality delays. reverbs, pitch shift etc., all accessible and combinations ala big rack in one box. i dialed in some 2290 and pcm sounds that you would be hard pressed to distinguish from the OGs.

now, do i see the big dogs running their mixes *through* them in the studio ala mastering quality lexi/tide/tc/bricasti? nope.

 

[mentoneman]

AxeFx was my favorite, followed by the G-Force in that list. Getting my H90 sent me down a rabbit hole of all this classic gear again. Maybe I'll report back when my Eclipse arrives.

i relied exclusively on the G as my only rack fx for years until i got the Ultra. side by side the Ultra’s fx were dominant. but when i tried to use an external amp, the G’s ins/outs sounded better.

 

[mentoneman]

I like playing with all these other units, but it is definitely hard to not just say F it and go all Fractal.

i’ve always said if i had to scrap everything and start over or just simplify ala throw in the gear retirement downsize towel i’d go axe III.

the year i exclusively used just the ultra, it was very surreal loading in with my “rig” slung over my shoulder in a soft rack case, midi pedal, and gtr on my other shoulder in a gig bag.

 

[Code001]

i relied exclusively on the G as my only rack fx for years until i got the Ultra. side by side the Ultra’s fx were dominant. but when i tried to use an external amp, the G’s ins/outs sounded better.

Had the Ultra in the past. III just sold last week. The III was a major improvement over the Ultra in every way. Highly recommended. If I played live, I'd be grabbing the III every day of the week. No reason to ever take out classic rack gear unless you're 100% dead set on a very specific sound, or you have the money to burn lugging around gear that might die at any moment due to age with no easy replacement.

However, I'm shifting more towards recording. A lot of this will be integrated as outboard gear for me. I can do stuff "in the box", and I am right now, but it'll be cool to have another flavor of external gear to help with flavors. I mean, that's all this shit really is in the end - flavors haha.

 

[Shask]

there is a sector of rack purists who like to call out fractal for “berhingering” those that came before them, and are generally unhappy with the product.
my personal experience having owned and used an ultra live is that it’s a very cool and great sounding multifx product for guitarists, with top quality delays. reverbs, pitch shift etc., all accessible and combinations ala big rack in one box. i dialed in some 2290 and pcm sounds that you would be hard pressed to distinguish from the OGs.

now, do i see the big dogs running their mixes *through* them in the studio ala mastering quality lexi/tide/tc/bricasti? nope.

I have seen those arguments, and I think it is stupid. It is not like Fractal literally copied their code by extracting it from the EPROM. Not like how Mooer did EHX. Just because they stuck a pitch shifter inside a delay loop or something doesn't mean they copied them. I would just say they were inspired by them, like all gear is.

I have my old Axe II going through a Parallel mixer with my stereo tube setup. I think it sounds great like that. I think the effects can be a little vanilla compared to my old units, but it is hard to deny that having modern luxuries like a PC editor, and things like the Block Library outweigh other things. Definitely makes me think about grabbing a VP4 to replace it all.

 

[Shask]

i’ve always said if i had to scrap everything and start over or just simplify ala throw in the gear retirement downsize towel i’d go axe III.

the year i exclusively used just the ultra, it was very surreal loading in with my “rig” slung over my shoulder in a soft rack case, midi pedal, and gtr on my other shoulder in a gig bag.

I have an FM3 also, and I could easily just live with that. I think I just dont because it is fun to plan with all my pedals and tube stuff, like my Synergy setup.

 

[mentoneman]

I have seen those arguments, and I think it is stupid. It is not like Fractal literally copied their code by extracting it from the EPROM. Not like how Mooer did EHX. Just because they stuck a pitch shifter inside a delay loop or something doesn't mean they copied them. I would just say they were inspired by them, like all gear is.

I have my old Axe II going through a Parallel mixer with my stereo tube setup. I think it sounds great like that. I think the effects can be a little vanilla compared to my old units, but it is hard to deny that having modern luxuries like a PC editor, and things like the Block Library outweigh other things. Definitely makes me think about grabbing a VP4 to replace it all.

i didn’t have the luxury of a mixer at the time i owned the ultra but that would certainly be the way to go. and for the sub $500 prices i see nowadays for used ultras, it would make an amazing entry level noise box for loved ones!

 

[Shask]

i didn’t have the luxury of a mixer at the time i owned the ultra but that would certainly be the way to go. and for the sub $500 prices i see nowadays for used ultras, it would make an amazing entry level noise box for loved ones!

I spent a ton of time comparing running the Axe II and FM3 after my Synergy rig and they did something to the dynamics I didn't like. There wasn't much of a tone change, but more of a loss of punch. It didn't feel as fast and punchy. I am curious if the VP4 would be an improvement, or if I would prefer it in a mixer also.

I already had the mixer with a MPX-1 and G Major 2 in the loops, so I just threw the Axe II in there also. I am always switching between them, but kind of want to just pick one so I can quit messing with them all, lol.

Now I also have the SDE-3000D and 2290p in the loops also. I know I was talking about testing the 2290p in a thread a little while back to see if it was truly analog dry through.

 

[mentoneman]

I spent a ton of time comparing running the Axe II and FM3 after my Synergy rig and they did something to the dynamics I didn't like. There wasn't much of a tone change, but more of a loss of punch. It didn't feel as fast and punchy. I am curious if the VP4 would be an improvement, or if I would prefer it in a mixer also.

I already had the mixer with a MPX-1 and G Major 2 in the loops, so I just threw the Axe II in there also. I am always switching between them, but kind of want to just pick one so I can quit messing with them all, lol.

Now I also have the SDE-3000D and 2290p in the loops also. I know I was talking about testing the 2290p in a thread a little while back to see if it was truly analog dry through.

totally agree about the punch loss from fractal. the 4cm was really rough and about the worst way to run it. if you stay totally in the box you are much better off. the best possible sound i got out of it was analog in/digital out direct to computer via spdif at the time. i also noticed the same with my G-Force. running the digital outputs and bypassing the D/A made a shocking improvement, proving to me that the converters on those units are adversely affecting tone.

i noticed that stryom made improvements in that regard with their revised pedals. it’s as plain as day comparing my H9 to my Boss DD-500 too. have you reached any conclusions regarding the sde and 2290 pedals?

 

[mentoneman]

imagine popping this bad boy on the FOH master bus at a Floyd or Dead stadium gig

 

[Shask]

totally agree about the punch loss from fractal. the 4cm was really rough and about the worst way to run it. if you stay totally in the box you are much better off. the best possible sound i got out of it was analog in/digital out direct to computer via spdif at the time. i also noticed the same with my G-Force. running the digital outputs and bypassing the D/A made a shocking improvement, proving to me that the converters on those units are adversely affecting tone.

i noticed that stryom made improvements in that regard with their revised pedals. it’s as plain as day comparing my H9 to my Boss DD-500 too. have you reached any conclusions regarding the sde and 2290 pedals?

Yeah, if I only use Fractal I don't notice it. It is mostly when I try to combine it with tube gear.

I have not tried Syrymon. I have always been curious about the Dig, but I have enough delay pedals as-is, lol.

I definitely think the SDE-3000D IS ADT, and the 2290p is not. I don't notice a feel change with the 2290p, but I definitely get comb filtering in parallel.

I was considering grabbing a UAFX Golden for reverb, and that is what lead me to looking at the Micro Pitch. I am considering a few choice pedals instead of a whole rack as I really don't use many different sounds. I am even considering a SA Collider for Delay / Reverb.

 

[SFW]

I have been running pitch shift for almost 20 years now. I have used the TC G Major, G Major 2, and G Force. I have used the H9 and the H90. I set them all the same way basically. +9/-9 and adjust the mix to taste. As stated above, it is a subtle thickening agent in my rig. I leave the mix low enough to not start sounding like I should be playing EVH riffs.