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Lightning
Active member
So the 78 is brighter even with an alnico 2 magnet ?
Seymour Duncan 59(bridge)vs Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAF(bridge)
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harddriver
Well-known member
I've played a SD 59B from the early 80's a long time ago and it was definitely brighter than my 78 A2 model from what I remember, The 59B almost had this Telecaster type of kerrang to it which I didn't care for at the time.
I also had a set of 36th anniversary PAF in an Edwards Les Paul and they weren't very impressive, they were ok. I know a guy that has a 36th anniversary in a Warmoth mutt guitar and he played through my 72 Marshall and it sounded good.
My 78 model has a nice balance to it, it doesn't feel weak at all with the A-2 but it isn't Tele twangy bright like I remember the 59B A-5 I had and the 78 plays and feels very hot for 9K ohms and has great pinch harmonics yet is still aggressive but in a more VHII kind of way since it is a bit warmer to my ears I attribute that to the A-2. I have been very happy with my 78 model for many years now.
I'm also wanting to try out 7.6 -7.8K maybe 8K just to hear something different more in line with WACF tone that Gaustad laid down but I can't decide on what magnet I want and whether to try Arcane, Fralin or another Duncan.
I've been looking a Fralin Pure and Modern PAF's that the Top Jimi guy uses, they sound alright but I haven't committed to try one yet. He uses an slight overwind over 8K and I think it's an A-2 for the Pure PAF which I already have with my 78 model............ I think the Modern PAF comes with an A-4 and you can get an 8K wind but they actually seem to described the A-4 as . All of the Fralins are wax potted.
This is how Fralin describes the Modern PAF:
The Modern P.A.F. is our Pure P.A.F. on steroids. It’s great for more modern styles of music that need a little more output and power. The Modern P.A.F. features a thicker midrange with a quick and even breakup
https://www.fralinpickups.com/product/modern-paf/
| Neck Ohm Reading (Stock): | 8K |
| Bridge Ohm Reading (Stock): | 9K |
| Neck Polarity: | Reversible with 3-Conductor or 4-Conductor Lead |
| Bridge Polarity: | Reversible with 3-Conductor or 4-Conductor Lead |
| Magnet: | USA-Made Alnico 4 |
| Wire: | USA-Made 42-Gauge Plain Enamel |
It's kind of maddening so many builders using A-5, A-3 and A-2 for PAF variants so it's hard to know what it period correct.
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Lightning
Active member
Hey Harddriver when listen to Van Halen 1 it’s very bright and cutting and to me alnico 2 doesn’t have that but alnico 5 does, I was listening to some sound clips on YouTube and I found this heres a guy playing a Soldano avenger with a Seymour Duncan 59 and I was impressed
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harddriver
Well-known member
I totally agree about VH1 being bright, crunchy and aggressive compared to VHII. Right now the MM1400 gets me that for VH1 and my 78 model does VHII and all around VH great IMHO.
The only pickup that I have heard that comes close to the MM1400 for VH1 is that 7.65K Ducan 59 neck that Gaustad used in that WACF video.
Check out this thread: I postulate that the early 78 tour dates in the fall of 1977 could have been a MM1400 since the 10/15/1977 sound very similar to the MM1400 but it also sound like the WACF video that Gaustad did with a 7.65K SD59N so...........
https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/thre...erent-shows-what-pickup-is-being-used.277361/
Here are the two shows.
Possible MM1400 10/15/77, this pickup is raspy, super crunchy almost fuzzy, like a MM1400 sound close to WACF as well
I think Ed may have switched back to the PAF after this 10/15/77 show, by 9/22/78 is definitely PAF
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Lightning
Active member
Harddriver I haven’t tried the Mighty Mite 1400 so it puts you in the VH 1 sound ?
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harddriver
Well-known member
When you listen to Ossie Ahsen pickup shootout and then listen to VH1 Album recording and then 10/15/77 Pasadena Civic show it pretty much sounds like the album to my ears. Then when you listen the 9/22/78 show that show sound more like a PAF as it has less of that raspy, almost fuzzy crunch qualities to it more like what I hear on VHII.
Since there are no pictures from the early 1977 shows showing a MM1400 it is only conjecture on my part but the MM1400 sound very close to the album but that WACF video that Gaustad did sound similar to what I hear in the MM1400 as well, so YMMV.
Yes, I like the MM1400 for VH1 only, IMHO it gets the attributes of the album tone without needing the Pultec EQ all the Sunset sound studio effects. The only other VH tone that sound like VH1 is WACF with that same raspy, crunchy/fuzzy details in WACF in my humble opinion, so does that debunk the MM1400 theory...it's possible I'm still open to other ideas.
My working theory is Ed might have used the MM1400 to record VH1 and then used it live for a few early shows in the fall of 1977 and didn't like it since he openly stated he didn't like the tone of VH1 so he went back to the PAF's that he liked for the rest of the tour. Listen to those two shows and see what you think.
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Lightning
Active member
Harddriver I need to try a Mighty Mite 1400 and like your saying it’s bright and cutting. It’s not tubby-bassy sounding is it??
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harddriver
Well-known member
The MM1400(9k) sounds exactly as it sounds in Ossie video, it has a tight low end, it has bright PAF attack and PAF clank to it, yet it has this fuzzlike distortion that rides on the root notes and it's very crunchy and pinched harmonics fly off the fretboard, it is very aggressive. Al Elstrada has commented that he thinks the 1300 is too dark sounding and he thinks the 1400 is more PAF like and I agree, but I haven't tried the 1300 that I have here because I like the 1400 that much.
I'm not saying it is the pickup for sure but it sounds damn good for VH1 for an off the shelf pickup and yo have to remember at that time the only hot pickups were the Mighty Mites and Dimarzio SD, that's if Seymour didn't wind anything for Ed until after the 78 tour. It's all fun to speculate and try stuff. I have to say I was surprised that the SD 59Neck at 7.65K sounded as aggressive as it does in Gaustad's WACF video, was it Jim's amp more so than the pickup.... I dunno.
I plan to get something 7.6=8K to try out, but the MM1400 does not disappoint for VH1 IMHO, to me it sounds like that Civic Arena show from 10/15/77 which sounds like what I hear in Ossie's clips and that 10/15/77 show sounds the most like the album tone live to my ears.
All the live shows after November 77 tend to sound more like a PAF if you listen to the England, Japan and then the Selland Arena and Niagara Falls live shows from September 1978 they are all a tad bit warmer and that raspy grind is gone, it's still good and aggressive but it doesn't sound like the album release show on 10/15/77.
Here's the December 31 1977 New Years show, this show sounds like a PAF and definitiely not as aggressive as the 10/15/77 show when you play them side by side.
Give all those live shows a good listen and see what your ears tell you, then listen to Ossie's demo.
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Lightning
Active member
Harddriver Thanks man ……
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Lightning
Active member
The Seymour Duncan 78 vs the mighty mite 1400 any thoughts on the two
johnny q
Active member
Same for me. After decades of boutique pickup rabbit-holes, these landed in my Gibson R9 and it is the best this guitar ever sounded.
To the OPs question: I have had the Duncan 59 and also played/heard guitars with the Dimarzio 36th and they are both great. Different though - the 36th struck me as a bit hotter and had that midrange "cry" while the 59 was a bit bassier. Listen to Pete Thorns Van Halen pickup shootout to see how well the 59 bridge does early VH. Also be sure to check out the numerous YouTube clips of the 36th - I feel that one flies under the radar big time, cause it sounds awesome and won't cost you over $500 dollars because it was wound on the some mystical, magical machine.
Brightest/has most bite - to these ears the 36th.
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Lightning
Active member
I had a opportunity to try a Seymour Duncan 78 today for the first time and I really like it
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
I need to get a 1400. The only time I played a Mighty Mite was in the early 80's in a Les Paul that I wanted to buy but couldn't afford. That thing sounded amazing with the Mighty Mite in the bridge position.
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harddriver
Well-known member
I really really like mine. When I called the custom shop in 2009 MJ answered the phone, took the order and wound it. To my ears it is spot on VHII but it can do a respectable VH1 and other VH tones, I have it in my Franky that has a standard Fender tremelo and so far haven't found a pickup I like better to pull it out because it does so many styles of VH well.
I use an old Kramer to try out different pickups but that has a Floyd and compared to the Fender trem it does make a difference.
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harddriver
Well-known member
The 1400 has a raspy, crunchy quality to it you either like or you don't.
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
I saw an old one on eBay yesterday. I posted a link to it in the Crazy Deals thread.