Songwriting, when should you share credits?

[luther910]

My band is in the pre-production phase, rehearsing before going into the studio to record. I've written most of the songs/lyrics for the album.

The question of writing credits is looming, as I haven't said anything on the matter to the other guys. I need some advice from you guys on what is fair "both ways".

A couple of songs are written with in cooperation with the other guitarist in the band. In these instances he has contributed for example a theme, bridge or his own solo etc. For that I've shared writing credit with him although I wrote 90% of the song/lyrics.

In other cases the band has contributed to the arrangement of the songs. For example on how many verses before the chorus etc. How would you guys value such contributions in regard to writing credits? I want all band members to feel included in the process, even if I sometimes regret having other people "mess with my songs" . But I readily admit some songs have benefited from their input.

In case we ever see any money from sales, I've always thought that we'd split any revenue equally between us, so it isn't like I'm cheap when it comes to money. However if feel personal about some songs. Sound off, what do you think

 

[maddnotez]

If your not making money and not an ego maniac why even bother with credits.

All songs written by "band name"

otherwise on each track write who did what.

Music by : X
Lyrics : X and X

ect

 

[luther910]

If your not making money and not an ego maniac why even bother with credits.

All songs written by "band name"

otherwise on each track write who did what.

Music by : X
Lyrics : X and X

ect

Yes, that is an option I've thought about.

 

[maddnotez]

also if you do go down the road of credits. You can copywrite the same way, however you want.

 

[luther910]

also if you do go down the road of credits. You can copywrite the same way, however you want.

Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Joeytpg]

If there was someone in the room with you while you wrote a song, that person is automatically a co-writers...... I read that on a book about copywriting and music business.

In your case, and honestly in a band's case, I wouldn't go down the "who did what" route...... just share all the songwriting earning equal ways..... it doesn't matter if you're the main songwriter. It's healthier for the band energy and overall "get along". If you happen to write a song for the band that's totally left field from the band's material and they wanna use it then it's ok I guess to get all the credit, but in most cases I'd just go equal parts.

Remember that it doesn't matter than the main melody or the hook chorus was writen by you, if anyone else make the song better by a simple suggestion, it's no longer "yours". Like in Metallica's case with Enter Sandman.....it was a Kirk Hammett riff, but lars suggested he fixed a few things and the song became the hit just for his suggestion

here's the example, go to 1:49

 

[luther910]

Good points all! I'm starting to feel guilty for asking the question.

 

[mysticaxe]

We've tended to go by the "add to the song" route. If someone had a part (even if that part was the jumping off point to what ended up in the song), arrangement, etc, they get credit. If all I've come up with was the guitar solo, I have not asked for writing credit.

 

[Badronald]

My singer and I write everything. Most of the time I even write the bass and keyboard parts. The singer usually writes the drum grooves as do I.

There have been times with suggestion from the other guys that we share credit where do.

Those guys know we write everything and if they suggest we extend a chorus they don't expect a songwriting credit. I wouldn't either. I know it's a fine line.

Not sure how things would pan out if you were standing in front of a judge though! I'm sure it would never be an issue unless a song hits big. When big money is involved people get crazy!

 

[RSRD]

Dont feel bad for asking at all. You have every right to feel protective of your songs. I agree with one of the above posts. "If they were in the room ' when a part or section was written then give them credit. An example of someone who does not get songwriting credit would be if you brought in a song to practice and the bassist comes up with his/her own parts. The bassist does not get songwriting credit for coming up with basslines. As basic as that seems it never ceases to amaze me how many drummers and bass players think they get songwriting credit for this. Now, as said. if they say "hey what do you think about adding this bridge' and the suggestions kicks ass and everyone says hell yes. Then boom. They get credit.

Make sense? Good luck with the songs!

 

[RSRD]

If there was someone in the room with you while you wrote a song, that person is automatically a co-writers...... I read that on a book about copywriting and music business.

In your case, and honestly in a band's case, I wouldn't go down the "who did what" route...... just share all the songwriting earning equal ways..... it doesn't matter if you're the main songwriter. It's healthier for the band energy and overall "get along". If you happen to write a song for the band that's totally left field from the band's material and they wanna use it then it's ok I guess to get all the credit, but in most cases I'd just go equal parts.

Remember that it doesn't matter than the main melody or the hook chorus was writen by you, if anyone else make the song better by a simple suggestion, it's no longer "yours". Like in Metallica's case with Enter Sandman.....it was a Kirk Hammett riff, but lars suggested he fixed a few things and the song became the hit just for his suggestion

here's the example, go to 1:49

Thats a really cool clip. Thanks for sharing. Basically those who think kirk sucks and ruins metallica can go suck an egg. He gets credit for creating the biggest thing to ever happen to Metallica. Like it or not!

 

[Joeytpg]

welcome. Actually Kirk has contributed to some AMAZING metallica riffs.

The bridge to Creeping Death, is all Kirk's

and a lot of the bluesier riffs from Load/Reload are Kirk's

 

[mysticaxe]

Dont feel bad for asking at all. You have every right to feel protective of your songs. I agree with one of the above posts. "If they were in the room ' when a part or section was written then give them credit. An example of someone who does not get songwriting credit would be if you brought in a song to practice and the bassist comes up with his/her own parts. The bassist does not get songwriting credit for coming up with basslines. As basic as that seems it never ceases to amaze me how many drummers and bass players think they get songwriting credit for this. Now, as said. if they say "hey what do you think about adding this bridge' and the suggestions kicks ass and everyone says hell yes. Then boom. They get credit.

Make sense? Good luck with the songs!

For me, if the bass player is just following the root chord progression, that's not writing credit. If he does something that significantly changes the feel for the song, then that may be a different case. If we told him "do this..." that is not something he would be credited with. In my case, my drummer is the biggest player in arrangement and has come up with significant ideas on all of our songs, so he gets credit.

 

[Badronald]

Dont feel bad for asking at all. You have every right to feel protective of your songs. I agree with one of the above posts. "If they were in the room ' when a part or section was written then give them credit. An example of someone who does not get songwriting credit would be if you brought in a song to practice and the bassist comes up with his/her own parts. The bassist does not get songwriting credit for coming up with basslines. As basic as that seems it never ceases to amaze me how many drummers and bass players think they get songwriting credit for this. Now, as said. if they say "hey what do you think about adding this bridge' and the suggestions kicks ass and everyone says hell yes. Then boom. They get credit.

Make sense? Good luck with the songs!

For me, if the bass player is just following the root chord progression, that's not writing credit. If he does something that significantly changes the feel for the song, then that may be a different case. If we told him "do this..." that is not something he would be credited with. In my case, my drummer is the biggest player in arrangement and has come up with significant ideas on all of our songs, so he gets credit.

Giving a drummer a songwriting credit is like...........................I can't think of anything that absurd, sorry.

 

[Joeytpg]

here are some other Kirk Riffs from Exodus that he brought to Metallica

 

[kasperjensen]

This is normally Something that should be discussed before writing ever begins.

But since it's already past that, I would let it go. If you are a band, and your shit hits the big time, you will all make good money anyway from touring. You won't be as reliant on royalties as a songwriter is. Plus, it will set a nice mood... And maybe there will be a big rush of creativity in the band that will maintain a long career.

Are you gunning for big commercial success?

 

[luther910]

Dont feel bad for asking at all. You have every right to feel protective of your songs. I agree with one of the above posts. "If they were in the room ' when a part or section was written then give them credit. An example of someone who does not get songwriting credit would be if you brought in a song to practice and the bassist comes up with his/her own parts. The bassist does not get songwriting credit for coming up with basslines. As basic as that seems it never ceases to amaze me how many drummers and bass players think they get songwriting credit for this. Now, as said. if they say "hey what do you think about adding this bridge' and the suggestions kicks ass and everyone says hell yes. Then boom. They get credit.

Make sense? Good luck with the songs!

Thank you RSRD, and yes, your points makes sense. How common is it for bands to share all songwriting credits? I've read that Van Halen shared credits on the early albums, (if not all?), even if it is known that Eddie wrote most of it. The question is what "route to take" like maddnotez says . Just share all credits or start analyzing?

Are we gunning for big commercial success? No, not really, but you never know. It's a bit late in the game for us, but I believe in our songs. And this is not really about commercial success either, it is a personal relationship with the songs, does that make any sense?

 

[kasperjensen]

Dont feel bad for asking at all. You have every right to feel protective of your songs. I agree with one of the above posts. "If they were in the room ' when a part or section was written then give them credit. An example of someone who does not get songwriting credit would be if you brought in a song to practice and the bassist comes up with his/her own parts. The bassist does not get songwriting credit for coming up with basslines. As basic as that seems it never ceases to amaze me how many drummers and bass players think they get songwriting credit for this. Now, as said. if they say "hey what do you think about adding this bridge' and the suggestions kicks ass and everyone says hell yes. Then boom. They get credit.

Make sense? Good luck with the songs!

Thank you RSRD, and yes, your points makes sense. How common is it for bands to share all songwriting credits? I've read that Van Halen shared credits on the early albums, (if not all?), even if it is known that Eddie wrote most of it. The question is what "route to take" like maddnotez says . Just share all credits or start analyzing?

Are we gunning for big commercial success? No, not really, but you never know. It's a bit late in the game for us, but I believe in our songs. And this is not really about commercial success either, it is a personal relationship with the songs, does that make any sense?

It makes total sense.

Being emotionally invested in a song, is inevitable. Some more than others of course.

The problem is that it amounts to the same thing... Money. It makes sense to keep the credits to yourself because the song is deeply personal, but it also means keeping all the money.

So it might be a good idea to take it on a song by song basis. If you have 11 balls to the wall songs about drugs and sex with Polynesian prozzies, and 1 song about your father passing away when you were a young boy, then I am sure your bandmates can appreciate you want to keep that one to your self.

But again, if the drummer comes up with a beautiful piano progression that takes the song to a new level...

In the long run, it might be worth considering making everything an even split, if your band is an entity.. A brotherhood if you will.
If you are the main attraction, and the rest are somewhat replaceable, then don't give anything away.

 

[Meathead]

Giving a drummer a songwriting credit is like...........................I can't think of anything that absurd, sorry.

That is funny!


I write everything because I basically see things complete in my head...chords, drum groove, melodies, etc...

If I was writing in a band situation, I would approach it like my heroes did (Led Zep, Beatles, etc....) if you helped write it, your name appears beside the song.

But on the other hand...I wouldn't want to end up in a songwriting band with a bunch of 'yes men'. I would want to be in a situation where everyone's opinion is very valuable, where if I bring an idea for a good song to the group, we all finish it together, because we all love each other and always get along and agree on everything.

There you entered my dream world for a moment.

 

[Mr. Burton]

You should decide if this is for recreation or business. If the latter, you should consider having the discussion now. I know plenty of bands that imploded over issues like these. Splitting publishing with other bandmates is only worth it if they embellish upon the composition. Revenue generated from performance and merch makes sense to divvy up equally.