Stage volume

[Inearthed]

Preferred setup would be IEM's with a mix of my choosing along with a 4x12 putting out the signal at a live appropriate volume. Current setup is volume wars with the other guitarist, both cabinets angled towards the drummer slightly, stage monitors run by the soundguy for the venue (usually not the greatest mix). Drummer / other guitarist cut from the rock and roll was meant to be as loud as possible cloth so they have zero interest in IEMs / setting even levels, so the quality of performance suffers.

 

[japetus]

Stage volume is a loaded question. If I am playing somewhere with a badass FOH setup with a guy that knows how to use it...vs the bartenders cousin who is "wirin'" up some mains as you are loading in. It's all in what they have. I gigged a .22+ through a 4x12 and loved it, but it was at places like the Pagent, Pops and other bigger venues that I knew had the goods. I honestly want to get a light digital rig as of right now, I can't find one that can do real Bassman and 6L6 tones

 

[grimmchaos]

At the last gig I played, I ran an SLO30 on about 4 into a Mather vertical 2x12.... loud enough to hear myself over the drums and the obnoxiously loud bad, but not so loud it drowned out the vocals in the wedge. We've talked about IEMs as well.. and it's a big commitment I'm not sure I'm ready to make.

 

[tallcoolone]

Depends on the room. Ideally I’m running a 50w head into a 4x12 with a shield in front. That way my speakers are bouncing up to my ears, a wedge in front can reinforce and FOH can do it’s job. Last week was in a dive bar like @cobrahead1030 was describing and you just do the best you can.

 

[8len8]

Slightly louder than the drums. Just so I can hear myself over them.

 

[LP Freak]

I always play though a 50 or 100w head and a 4x12 running at drum volume. There was a period that I used the same heads with an Avatar 2x12 wedge out front pointing back at me. That actually worked really well for stage volume and I could always hear myself really well. I’m surprised those didn’t take off better

 

[Greazygeo]

Hmmm never considered the open back cab thing...I need some of the other guitar in my monitor depending on stage size. We're still 100% amps on stage although I we occasionally talk IEM's; our singer does use them. I had a guy fill in for me a few months ago and he was like WTF? you guys still use amps ??? Yep....Wizard MC25 every time all the time.

Mine are both Wizard 2-12’s. One is a piggyback style and one V front. The piggy back cab is open about like a combo. The V front has the middle panel removed.
Small gigs I just take the piggyback and stand it on its end…sounds best that way and looks funny.
IEMs can be nice with a good mix, still bring my amp and cabs though.

 

[ewill52]

i'm sure i'm in the minority here, but we all run modelers to FOH and into our band's IEM mixer, including the drum mics (and levels)
all our stuff is preset before we even get to the venue no matter the size
it's saved a ton of arguments (on-stage and pre-show)

and with the app on the phone, we control our own monitor mixes. when we roll the IEM rig onto the stage, we're 95% done with soundcheck.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I'm used to playing dive bars, where you're not guaranteed to get nicely working monitors or a decent sound guy.

I turn up loud enough that I can hear myself alongside the drummer. It helps having a tone that cuts through the mix well, so that volume doesn't have to super loud.

Yea, we always played crap bars so we just mic’d up the bass drum and the vocalist and then let it rip

 

[alund]

Every man for himself!!

 

[ewill52]

Yea, we always played crap bars so we just mic’d up the bass drum and the vocalist and then let it rip

we do the same for the dives. we're sitting on top of each other, it's not like we can't hear lol. I've got a f'n cymbal jammed up my ass, don't need it in the wedge lol. Kick in the sub, vox in the monitors, amp volume just above the drums, let it rip.

 

[BeZo]

I hate almost everything about IEM's. My band recently ventured into this shit, and they suck. The only thing I like - having a click track in my ear.

Rock'n Roll was at one time supposed to be loud, obnoxious, and even painful to the ears. A full body experience. These days it feels like it's more about "re-creating the record". Tracks upon tracks, zero stage volume, and more choreography than a Paul Abdul show. /end rant

Nobody said you need to turn down your amps just because you run IEMs. Running the mic to my ears is not the same as feeling my 8x10 rattle my balls. That's why I do both. I still want to feel the music too.

 

[eddyrox]

and with the app on the phone, we control our own monitor mixes. when we roll the IEM rig onto the stage, we're 95% done with soundcheck.

yup - for the WIN!!

 

[dooredge]

This is what I was getting at.

I’ve always gigged a 100 watt and a 412. MV or PS100 allows me to dial in a good volume/balance with drums and everything else. This apparent trend of taming or neutering live guitar rigs—to turn a rock show into a “safe space” or whatever—fucking sucks. Still plenty of places to play that IMO do it right, but this new calmer, safer approach seems to be becoming more prevalent. It’s a shame.

Let me clarify something: I’m not talking about volume for volume’s sake. I’m talking about live mix that sounds good and is huge and punchy and envelops the audience—in a good way. Doesn’t have to be painful necessarily, but air should be moving. It should be engrossing and a little overwhelming—in a good way—and you just gotta cross a certain volume threshold to get there. We provide earplugs at our shows to anyone who wants them, by the way.

Exactly dude. I'm on the same page. I was just bitching because I personally loath IEM's. I don't share often, but this topic moved me to do so.

Not that it matters, but I'll add some context. I'm running Kemper Stage > KSR PA-50 > 412. I'll never do it any other way outside of ditching the Kemper for a tube amp. I'm not a volume for volumes sake guitarist either. I've been in bands where that's the case and it's maddening competing for space in the mix. I have to have something behind me. I can't see doing it any other way. Call it inspiration, feel, sound - I need that ooomph and that'll never happen for me in a digitized / sanitized IEM environment.

 

[dooredge]

Nobody said you need to turn down your amps just because you run IEMs. Running the mic to my ears is not the same as feeling my 8x10 rattle my balls. That's why I do both. I still want to feel the music too.

Most definitely. I'm doing the same. I like having my balls rattled as well. My comment was mainly on what I perceive to be the new reality since many bands have moved into the IEM realm.

 

[messenger]

Our guitar volume from practice to gig never changed. Just loud enough to hear above the drums. Rarely have complaints from sound guys.

 

[jabps]

My experience is the HUGE majority of sound men want less on stage and want to mix the band through the mains, the end.

That's because most "modern" soundmen are bad at their job. They want no ambience, no bleed, no air, they only want what they can control and if anything is outside their wheelhouse, they literally don't know how mix.

I'm not saying bands shouldn't work with them afterall you don't really have a choice or be aware of the volume, depending on the venue you can only get so loud but "in general" today, most soundmen simply don't have the skills to mix a band properly.

Very glad my days of bars and small venues are over but also very glad I was able to work with some great soundmen who knew you needed some stage volume if for anything, just to "feel" what you were playing.

Recently went to see a close friends band at a local Nashville place, not mentioning names. And their mix was horrible. They were all running in ears, cab sims out - soundman had all the conveniences he needed and the sound sucked. Terrible.

 

[Little B]

As been said,stage volume is a loaded question even if o.p.didnt mean it that way.A f.o.h.guy that knows what he's doing, and has a lot of experience running bands with full stage vol and also iem's w/modern stage w/ nothing but the crickets will know how to handle it.
Of the 2 80s rock bands I fill in for and the 2 country rock bands I gig with,it's always 2- 4x12s,sometimes 3,or 2-2×12s- and this is whether its a middle of nowhere watering hole,or an arena with 35k seats filled..ive played both senerios many times over.In these senarios,we always have a choice presented to us by f.o.h.or monitor guy to use iem or wedges..we always start with our cab volumes very low and bring em up slowly to taste.Never a complaint from f.o.h.ever...I will say that when we do use iem's,90% of the time they come out and we go back to the wedges during a show..so to answer the o.p.- I never have any issues using real cabs on stage.My rig does pull monitor duty-in a good professional way on stage tho.We also dont clutter up the wedges with everything. Just vocals,or bgv.Thats what works for my bands anyways.

 

[ghosty999]

My theory is the louder things are, the more strain on the eat drums which drastically changes your sonic perception.

I honestly use in ear protectors to dampen the sound specifically cymbals. I have an AxeFX with FOH feed and then the secondary outputs running with no cab simulation to a Solid State power amp driving a small 2x10 for stage volume. The solid state really cuts.

This means we can keep the stage volume low and not kill our ears. I just slightly adjust the in ear foam according to need.