Sweep picking

[glpg80]

not necessarily matching - just proper "phrasing" i guess you could say. trying to get what you want to say onto the fretboard so to speak, instead of relying on the muscle memory or cliche' repetative phrases that you might know.

im not saying metronomes are not important. but for the technique, with or without the metronome, it has to come first. each person is different in how they apply it as i have already said. but once you develop the feeling moreso what you mentioned as muscle memory, the speed will come and with that comes the added importance of a metronome.

just my HO. i have taught others in my past and make it a strict point to understand beats and timing - developing the internal timing is always a must.

 

[degenaro]

not necessarily matching - just proper "phrasing" i guess you could say. trying to get what you want to say onto the fretboard so to speak, instead of relying on the muscle memory or cliche' repetative phrases that you might know.

im not saying metronomes are not important. but for the technique, with or without the metronome, it has to come first. each person is different in how they apply it as i have already said. but once you develop the feeling moreso what you mentioned as muscle memory, the speed will come and with that comes the added importance of a metronome.

just my HO. i have taught others in my past and make it a strict point to understand beats and timing - developing the internal timing is always a must.

I have no idea what your background is. So the whole conversation is always kinda weird that way...what I can tell you is that EVERYTHING you ever play is stuff you know, and the only way you know anything is muscle memory and the ability to de and reconstruct all you know on the spot.
My point is not the metronome but rather guitarists inherent inability to feel any kinda rhythm and its subdivision.
As for repetitive phrases, that is so not where I live. Go scroll back up to the example I posted early on and play through it at 90 and at 130 bpm and you see what I'm talking about how the phrase and pick stroke falls.
As for teaching...
I teach here...
www.sam.org.in

 

[glpg80]

yes i know where you teach and that you are quite capable of knowing the ins/outs of a fretboard. im not trying to make this an ego stroking contest

what you mention on phrase and pick stroke is correct - picking dynamics go hand in hand with phrasing. both are needed to work in unison if you want to develop anything rhythm basis to work off of. the differences in how each person disects a rhythm with these variables and apply their own groove (for lack of better words) is what makes music, music.

as for my background in teaching, if i wanted canned food to eat and gas in my tank i had no choice. forceful learning and school of hard knocks is not the easiest or the best. but its worked for years and the students have had no problems moving onto others and/or taking what i show them and running with it.

 

[degenaro]

yes i know where you teach and that you are quite capable of knowing the ins/outs of a fretboard. im not trying to make this an ego stroking contest

what you mention on phrase and pick stroke is correct - picking dynamics go hand in hand with phrasing. both are needed to work in unison if you want to develop anything rhythm basis to work off of. the differences in how each person disects a rhythm with these variables and apply their own groove (for lack of better words) is what makes music, music.

as for my background in teaching, if i wanted canned food to eat and gas in my tank i had no choice. forceful learning and school of hard knocks is not the easiest or the best. but its worked for years and the students have had no problems moving onto others and/or taking what i show them and running with it.

See this is where we're disagreeing rhythm has zero to do with pick strokes. If you can't gimme the rhythm by mumbling it you ain't gonna be able to play it. At least not at a level I'd expect you to.
Take any line in that is in 16th, but phrases in 3 or 5. You should play, sing/mumble it at the drop of a hat, yet most can't...they end up slowing down and making it 3...
As for students growing and applying their own groove...they need to learn time before they can mess with it.
And that does not what makes music, music...since all it takes for that is the human...no guitar or pick is necessary to make music...all it takes is any kinda noise to carve the air.

 

[glpg80]

yes i know where you teach and that you are quite capable of knowing the ins/outs of a fretboard. im not trying to make this an ego stroking contest

what you mention on phrase and pick stroke is correct - picking dynamics go hand in hand with phrasing. both are needed to work in unison if you want to develop anything rhythm basis to work off of. the differences in how each person disects a rhythm with these variables and apply their own groove (for lack of better words) is what makes music, music.

as for my background in teaching, if i wanted canned food to eat and gas in my tank i had no choice. forceful learning and school of hard knocks is not the easiest or the best. but its worked for years and the students have had no problems moving onto others and/or taking what i show them and running with it.

See this is where we're disagreeing rhythm has zero to do with pick strokes. If you can't gimme the rhythm by mumbling it you ain't gonna be able to play it. At least not at a level I'd expect you to.
Take any line in that is in 16th, but phrases in 3 or 5. You should play, sing/mumble it at the drop of a hat, yet most can't...they end up slowing down and making it 3...
As for students growing and applying their own groove...they need to learn time before they can mess with it.
And that does not what makes music, music...since all it takes for that is the human...no guitar or pick is necessary to make music...all it takes is any kinda noise to carve the air.

i think we are trying to say the same thing, only its not coming across very well.

the whole point began with a metronome - and maybe im getting two topics confused but i have mentioned before that rhythm is in your head either you have it or you dont, and if you dont, pick strokes wont do anything for you. the humming, the ability to create beats and put them to use on a fretboard is what i am trying to get at. practice does not make perfect practice makes persistent. once you have that ability down pat then applying a metronome to prevent improper practicing techniques is a breeze. as for timing - a metronome can be used not only for practice purposes but also teaching purposes. for students who have had no clue about what even 4/4 or 4/5 timing is i bring in the metronome and do the clap on my legs routine.

back on topic to the sweep picking - its why i mentioned practicing without a metronome and mentioning proper technique first at a pace too slow for a metronome - its not that anyone should have problems with the timing, because by that point you should have well developed a sense of what beats are and how to practice it properly - at least at that pace.

are we still off?

 

[degenaro]

yes i know where you teach and that you are quite capable of knowing the ins/outs of a fretboard. im not trying to make this an ego stroking contest

what you mention on phrase and pick stroke is correct - picking dynamics go hand in hand with phrasing. both are needed to work in unison if you want to develop anything rhythm basis to work off of. the differences in how each person disects a rhythm with these variables and apply their own groove (for lack of better words) is what makes music, music.

as for my background in teaching, if i wanted canned food to eat and gas in my tank i had no choice. forceful learning and school of hard knocks is not the easiest or the best. but its worked for years and the students have had no problems moving onto others and/or taking what i show them and running with it.

See this is where we're disagreeing rhythm has zero to do with pick strokes. If you can't gimme the rhythm by mumbling it you ain't gonna be able to play it. At least not at a level I'd expect you to.
Take any line in that is in 16th, but phrases in 3 or 5. You should play, sing/mumble it at the drop of a hat, yet most can't...they end up slowing down and making it 3...
As for students growing and applying their own groove...they need to learn time before they can mess with it.
And that does not what makes music, music...since all it takes for that is the human...no guitar or pick is necessary to make music...all it takes is any kinda noise to carve the air.

i think we are trying to say the same thing, only its not coming across very well.

the whole point began with a metronome - and maybe im getting two topics confused but i have mentioned before that rhythm is in your head either you have it or you dont, and if you dont, pick strokes wont do anything for you. the humming, the ability to create beats and put them to use on a fretboard is what i am trying to get at. practice does not make perfect practice makes persistent. once you have that ability down pat then applying a metronome to prevent improper practicing techniques is a breeze. as for timing - a metronome can be used not only for practice purposes but also teaching purposes. for students who have had no clue about what even 4/4 or 4/5 timing is i bring in the metronome and do the clap on my legs routine.

back on topic to the sweep picking - its why i mentioned practicing without a metronome and mentioning proper technique first at a pace too slow for a metronome - its not that anyone should have problems with the timing, because by that point you should have well developed a sense of what beats are and how to practice it properly - at least at that pace.

are we still off?

We're reasonably close. Other than the either you have rhythm (in your head) or not. I look at it as either you'vr learned to have rhythm or not yet.