Tell me about the white chassis 101b

[sjk]

Soldanofan or anyone else who knows tell me a little about this amp, why you like it better than the others or just some of the differences to the other revisions. Nobody has jumped on the one in the classifieds yet so hurry up and tell me why I should buy it . I missed the one a week ago with mervol mods or whatever their called. Never owned an xtc and only bogner I've played is the uberschall blue I currently have. Thanks

 

[SLOgriff]

I used to have one back in '95 that I bought brand new...and used it up until 2001. You can ONLY use one speaker cabinet at a time because it utilizes "speaker switching" where you can run one cab for the Red channel and a seprate cab for the Blue channel. You can still run MONO and utilize a single speaker cab...hope that makes sense. Also came standard with the Class A/AB option.

Reinhold updated from White Chasis to the now current Black Chasis XTC's by doing away with a couple/few features or design that was "robbing tone" from the amp. The new Black Chasis Ecstasy's have a little more gain to my ears and just sound better!

There is nothing wrong with White Chasis Ecstasy's but there is nothing special about them either. Just a transition amp from the 100B to the new Black Chasis 101B.

 

[RSRD]

I agree with above. There is a reason why reinhold updated the 101b. My suggestion to you, before you buy modded xtcs or older xtcs, start out with a 101b or the 20th A. See if either of those work for you - probably will- and then see if you'd like a more open/less gainy version (classic, white chasis) or a marvel mod.

 

[TrueTone500]

Soldanofan or anyone else who knows tell me a little about this amp, why you like it better than the others or just some of the differences to the other revisions. Nobody has jumped on the one in the classifieds yet so hurry up and tell me why I should buy it . I missed the one a week ago with mervol mods or whatever their called. Never owned an xtc and only bogner I've played is the uberschall blue I currently have. Thanks

The white chassis 101B operates at higher DC compared to the black chassis. The white model is not as compressed, and has more headroom. The white one is most definitely the best sounding XTC I've ever played...and I have played many! The plate voltage is something like 575VDC on the white model... 540VDC on the black one. Some of the early 70's Marshall SL's have DC that rate around 570VDC. They just sound better! If someone was experiencing "tone suck" from a white XTC, it had nothing to do with the design of the amp. Bogner lowered the DC because he couldn't buy high quality EL34's at a good price - not because the amp needed to be "updated". There's a good description on Wikipedia in reference to the XTC amplifiers.

If the black chassis XTC goes to "11" - the white chassis XTC goes to "12"!

 

[sjk]

Thanks for the explanations guys, bought a 2011 SLO with no mods off the classifieds the other night so I guess the xtc will wait. Wait a minute how bout getting a SLO and an XTC in the same week

 

[scottosan]

I snagged the one off of the classifieds last week. To my ears, it sounds like a slightly less spongy 101B. Not as open as a classic, but I have to agree with the headroom comment. This thing is a beast.

 

[TrueTone500]

Nice clean channel too! Not as good as the Goldfinger 45 clean, but still a better clean than the other XTC models. SED =C= tubes worked best for me.

The Classic and the 100B are identical circuits - with the exception of only 2 x resistors.

 

[SLOgriff]

The Classic and the 100B are identical circuits - with the exception of only 2 x resistors.

Are you 100% certain about this? Doesn't the 100B have more gain than the Classic? I've had two different Classics, wanting to like them, and they just seem like they are "lacking" in the gain department and just could not mesh with it at all! As opposed to the 101B which has a nice gain structure to it.

 

[matt-5150]

The Classic and the 100B are identical circuits - with the exception of only 2 x resistors.

Are you 100% certain about this? Doesn't the 100B have more gain than the Classic? I've had two different Classics, wanting to like them, and they just seem like they are "lacking" in the gain department and just could not mesh with it at all! As opposed to the 101B which has a nice gain structure to it.

Not really sure how similar they are considering the Variac and power amp mute that came with the 100B. Also, the 100 has less features and a different effects loop and the Air feature is different than anything that came later.

Having said that, while the Classic sounds good it definitely does not do the 100B thing. The Classic has a better clean channel imho, but the Bloe and Red channels are missing that signature punch in their gain structures.

Matt

 

[TrueTone500]

I should have also included the fact that the 100B has a different set of transformers also. The PT's are early Mercury Magnetics. I don't know if Bogner actually wound the OT's himself or not? Joe "Joey Voltage" Nazari at the MetroAmp Forum is the man to speak with on this subject. He told me that he went through both circuits, and the only difference was 2 x resistor values - and of course the transformers. If you have questions, he is definitely the man to talk to.

 

[TrueTone500]

The Classic and the 100B are identical circuits - with the exception of only 2 x resistors.

Are you 100% certain about this? Doesn't the 100B have more gain than the Classic? I've had two different Classics, wanting to like them, and they just seem like they are "lacking" in the gain department and just could not mesh with it at all! As opposed to the 101B which has a nice gain structure to it.

I've never owned a Classic, so I don't know? I didn't find the 100B to be a "gainy" as my white chassis 101B.

 

[rockerjt]

I have had several black chassis ecstasy's and one white chassis. The white chassis just sounded weak to me; not as much gain, not as dynamic, just kind of flat sounding if that makes any sense. I sold it and bought another black chassis Ecstasy, which I have since sold, but I am buying it back. The black chassis 101B is just where the bar is set for me, and personally, I like it the best out of any amp I have owned.

 

[TrueTone500]

I have had several black chassis ecstasy's and one white chassis. The white chassis just sounded weak to me; not as much gain, not as dynamic, just kind of flat sounding if that makes any sense. I sold it and bought another black chassis Ecstasy, which I have since sold, but I am buying it back. The black chassis 101B is just where the bar is set for me, and personally, I like it the best out of any amp I have owned.

You may have had an early model? The later white chassis models with the suspended heat-sinks are absolute monsters! All of the w/c models have higher plate/screen voltages, so you need power-tubes that can handle it. They were designed around a specific Siemens brand EL34 that apparently became unavailable in large quantities. Bogner cranked-down the voltages by 35 VCD (if I remember correctly) so they would work with a wider variety of power-tubes. My w/c had the best clean channel I've ever heard from an amp of its stature. Definitely more headroom than any black chassis model I've ever owned. You can also bypass the cabinet switching relays for more of a 100B-ish warmth. They're all good - just different is all. If I needed an XTC that could cut-through any mix - a late model w/c would definitely be the one.

 

[rockerjt]

Hmm.....mine must've been a lemon. I called Bogner to ask about it, Reinhold himself said it was a "tone sucker". They offered to mod it to be more like a black chassis version by disabling a few features, but I passed and just sold it. I am sure there were good ones out there, mine just was most definitely not one.

 

[TrueTone500]

Hmm.....mine must've been a lemon. I called Bogner to ask about it, Reinhold himself said it was a "tone sucker". They offered to mod it to be more like a black chassis version by disabling a few features, but I passed and just sold it. I am sure there were good ones out there, mine just was most definitely not one.

I asked Jorg about this after it was posted on TGP by Squarehead. He said; "...just ignore it. If Rienhold say this, then he was just being self-critical. The white chassis 101B is a fantastic amp, and we're very proud of it." Jorg isn't the best at using a computer keyboard, so I made the necessary edits...

Like all of you - I like to think I have a pretty good ear for good tone. I've recorded with a large inventory of amplifiers; to include the 100B, white chassis 101B, and black chassis 101B models. The 100B is a great amplifier with a more mod'd 68' plexi feel. Very organic! The w/c 101B has a more modern feel to it, similar to a 72' era "alumi" Marshall 100. Balls-to-the-wall "arena rock" tone here! The b/c 101B has a similar feel to the w/c, but has a more compressed red channel with less headroom overall. Each revision is different from the next... I just don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

If I had to choose one, I would not choose the 100B since I have a MK50H II. The b/c 101B was a bit too compressed sounding at the red channel - but has an awesome blue channel! If I could have the Goldfinger 45 cleans - b/c blue channel - and w/c red channel - that would be the XTC amp for me.

 

[Oldschool]

I recently bought a 1995 white chassis 101b.

Really like the amp. I haven´t played a later (black chassis) Ecstasy, so I don´t have a comparison, but this one absolutely sings (not compressed at all).


I asked Jorg about the possibility of removing the cab-switching, and this is what he had to say about it:

"The speakerswitching is done via some very expensive relais and it switched the ground then rather the hot signal, so the loss is neglectable. It does not need to be removed to bypass you would just need to jump, short the relais."

 

[TrueTone500]

I recently bought a 1995 white chassis 101b.

Really like the amp. I haven´t played a later (black chassis) Ecstasy, so I don´t have a comparison, but this one absolutely sings (not compressed at all).


I asked Jorg about the possibility of removing the cab-switching, and this is what he had to say about it:

"The speakerswitching is done via some very expensive relais and it switched the ground then rather the hot signal, so the loss is neglectable. It does not need to be removed to bypass you would just need to jump, short the relais."

I would leave it as it is. The cabinet switcher is one of the coolest options ever! If you haven't used it yet - try it. Try running a closed 4x12 with a semi open-back 2x12 on the green and blue channels. I never should have sold my white-chassis model.

Both Jorg and Charlie told me that the difference is so small that you will wish you hadn't done it. That's a VERY RARE vintage Bogner you have there... Treat it as such. Does yours have the suspended heat-sink for the Class A resistors? If yes, would you like to sell it?

 

[Oldschool]

I recently bought a 1995 white chassis 101b.

Really like the amp. I haven´t played a later (black chassis) Ecstasy, so I don´t have a comparison, but this one absolutely sings (not compressed at all).


I asked Jorg about the possibility of removing the cab-switching, and this is what he had to say about it:

"The speakerswitching is done via some very expensive relais and it switched the ground then rather the hot signal, so the loss is neglectable. It does not need to be removed to bypass you would just need to jump, short the relais."

I would leave it as it is. The cabinet switcher is one of the coolest options ever! If you haven't used it yet - try it. Try running a closed 4x12 with a semi open-back 2x12 on the green and blue channels. I never should have sold my white-chassis model.

Both Jorg and Charlie told me that the difference is so small that you will wish you hadn't done it. That's a VERY RARE vintage Bogner you have there... Treat it as such. Does yours have the suspended heat-sink for the Class A resistors? If yes, would you like to sell it?

The heat-sink looks like this:

I just got the Ecstasy after beeing gazzin' for years. I´m afraid that I won´t be selling it, any time soon, at least ;-)

 

[TrueTone500]

I recently bought a 1995 white chassis 101b.

Really like the amp. I haven´t played a later (black chassis) Ecstasy, so I don´t have a comparison, but this one absolutely sings (not compressed at all).


I asked Jorg about the possibility of removing the cab-switching, and this is what he had to say about it:

"The speakerswitching is done via some very expensive relais and it switched the ground then rather the hot signal, so the loss is neglectable. It does not need to be removed to bypass you would just need to jump, short the relais."

I would leave it as it is. The cabinet switcher is one of the coolest options ever! If you haven't used it yet - try it. Try running a closed 4x12 with a semi open-back 2x12 on the green and blue channels. I never should have sold my white-chassis model.

Both Jorg and Charlie told me that the difference is so small that you will wish you hadn't done it. That's a VERY RARE vintage Bogner you have there... Treat it as such. Does yours have the suspended heat-sink for the Class A resistors? If yes, would you like to sell it?

The heat-sink looks like this:

I just got the Ecstasy after beeing gazzin' for years. I´m afraid that I won´t be selling it, any time soon, at least ;-)

Fookin nice! That's a late model with the suspended heat-sink. Where are you located? Maybe I can convince you to sell it?

 

[Oldschool]

I´d probably consider selling it someday, but given the trouble it was getting it, and the scarcity of Bogners where I live (I believe this is the only Ecstasy here in Iceland) I doubt I´ll be willing to sell it soon ;-)