The Honeymoon Is Over...

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LP Freak said:
Sounds to me it was more the price tag than the tone. I’ve never had a problem with my Friedman cutting through live. If you do you’re doing something wrong. Here’s mine. Seems to be cutting fine to me..

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Good singer and performance man!

As far as "not being able to dial it in," I suspect this is more of a "horse's for courses" thing though.

I think the Friedmans I've tried sound really slick for lead tones, and lots of people make em sound great, but they aren't for me at all either, much like the op. Too dark, too refined, not angry enough. That doesn't mean they aren't good amps, just not for him, at that price point. There's no denying they're good at what they do, it's just a question of if that's what he's looking for you know?

I think the OP is specifically talking about the extra midrange cut, that lots of vintage Marshalls, and a handful of other amps have.

Once you reach an event horizon in terms of gain and compression, most amps lose that. Especially something with as much gain on tap as a BE.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Good singer and performance man!

As far as "not being able to dial it in," I suspect this is more of a "horse's for courses" thing though.

I think the Friedmans I've tried sound really slick for lead tones, and lots of people make em sound great, but they aren't for me at all either, much like the op. Too dark, too refined, not angry enough. That doesn't mean they aren't good amps, just not for him, at that price point. There's no denying they're good at what they do, it's just a question of if that's what he's looking for you know?

I think the OP is specifically talking about the extra midrange cut, that lots of vintage Marshalls, and a handful of other amps have.

Once you reach an event horizon in terms of gain and compression, most amps lose that. Especially something with as much gain on tap as a BE.
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It is really, really challenging to keep that dominant big sound mid character and have tons of gain on tap at the same time. It’s almost a 1:1 trade. So much so in fact that those saying just boost a Marshall and move on are the closest to being correct because getting the stock sound in a non stock amp is exceptionally challenging. I’ve spent years in my 74 circuit fine tuning it to try to keep that character and add in gain as well. It’s certainly not easy. And no the shit I’m designing isn’t some cookie cutter recipe that already exists - it’s a ground up build/design to try to maintain that Marshall character and growl.

For $4k the amp had better be perfect and if it doesn’t deliver in all aspects I don’t fault the OP one bit. Can’t knock it until you try it and he gave it all he could.
 
glpg80 said:
It is really, really challenging to keep that dominant big sound mid character and have tons of gain on tap at the same time. It’s almost a 1:1 trade. So much so in fact that those saying just boost a Marshall and move on are the closest to being correct because getting the stock sound in a non stock amp is exceptionally challenging. I’ve spent years in my 74 circuit fine tuning it to try to keep that character and add in gain as well. It’s certainly not easy. And no the shit I’m designing isn’t some cookie cutter recipe that already exists - it’s a ground up build/design to try to maintain that Marshall character and growl.

For $4k the amp had better be perfect and if it doesn’t deliver in all aspects I don’t fault the OP one bit. Can’t knock it until you try it and he gave it all he could.
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I'm not even well versed on circuit design like you @glpg80 , I've just played a shit fuck ton of high gain amps at ear shattering stage volumes, and came to the same conclusion 🤷

There are different needs for different players of course though, some guys might find that more compressed, slick sound to their liking

When you get into the 4k range it definitely becomes like the "what's the best amp you've ever played" thread a few days ago.

For some guys it's coke, for some guys pepsi, for some Dr pepper.
 
O.P. that's a bummer man. I've had the same experience in the past with different amps too.
However, I guess I'm odd man out here, but I had the 180° opposite experience with my BE 100 deluxe.One of the bands I gig out with is a 2 guitar band that does a lot of harmony ala racer x,night ranger,thin lizzy,maiden, etc.Over the years we bought 4 different splawns between us,didn't like how they sat in the mix live with the band no matter how hard we tried,One guy is now using a vht clx or mezzabarba and me after going thru and owning every version BE,including a kitchen sink 2203 and a suhr /aldrich modded 2203, got the latest deluxe and it sits in our mix perfectly, punches hard,has a ton of mid push,and sits really well with my buddies amps.So,go figure lol.So many other things factor in too,ie: guitar type, pickups, and the player themselves.
But I agree with you,if u gave it your best shot,and tried everything from a to z with it,then there's another amp out there with your name on it.Youll find it.
 
Havent read the whole thread but what speakers are you using? I thought the newer Friedmans had been opened up tonally vs the older ones and lots of people seem to make them work. I'm just wondering if it might be something else.
 
braintheory said:
I did like the EL34 version more and the Stealth version of the 34 more too iirc, but 34’s can only do so much. I see why guys like them. They’re voiced very well, but way too plastic-y/filtered. They’re a stereotypical from concentrate oj version of an amp sound to me. A fresh squeezed version amp like the Cam modded vintage Marshall’s and others I compared to my friends EVH’s (both 34’s & 6L6’s) was not a good time for them at all lol. His rig evolved a lot since then after as did mine
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I’d have kept it for the Red channel, if I didn’t already have a Naylor and Rev C, for a modern type tone. Those of course smoke it in every way.
I will say it did have really nice feel, almost on par with my others. Much better than I remember the 100w 6L6 Stealth, or 50w 6L6 versions having.
 
SpiderWars said:
Havent read the whole thread but what speakers are you using? I thought the newer Friedmans had been opened up tonally vs the older ones and lots of people seem to make them work. I'm just wondering if it might be something else.
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I have a EVH cab loaded with the EVH labeled Celestion Greenbacks. I also tried a friend's V30 loaded 212. We use an IEM system. I tried several different IRs that included greenbacks, V30s and a few others. I'm half-ass wondering if I didn't get a dud amp. I've been running a Friedman BE50 Deluxe profile in my Kemper with the band and have zero issues with sitting properly in the mix. So I have no idea. After 35 years of playing, I'd like to think I know how to dial in an amp for my needs...lol!
 
SFW said:
I have a EVH cab loaded with the EVH labeled Celestion Greenbacks. I also tried a friend's V30 loaded 212. We use an IEM system. I tried several different IRs that included greenbacks, V30s and a few others. I'm half-ass wondering if I didn't get a dud amp. I've been running a Friedman BE50 Deluxe profile in my Kemper with the band and have zero issues with sitting properly in the mix. So I have no idea. After 35 years of playing, I'd like to think I know how to dial in an amp for my needs...lol!
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Return it, and try the 50? Since that’s the profile you like maybe it’s a better choice.
 
SFW said:
I have a EVH cab loaded with the EVH labeled Celestion Greenbacks. I also tried a friend's V30 loaded 212. We use an IEM system. I tried several different IRs that included greenbacks, V30s and a few others. I'm half-ass wondering if I didn't get a dud amp. I've been running a Friedman BE50 Deluxe profile in my Kemper with the band and have zero issues with sitting properly in the mix. So I have no idea. After 35 years of playing, I'd like to think I know how to dial in an amp for my needs...lol!
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Serious question….have you checked the bias? Not sure if they do that (for 4K they should!) but I’ve bought many amps that sounded iffy, and the bias was super low. That would make a Marshall style amp sound pretty crappy
 
braintheory said:
I also can’t stand anymore that quacky/off sounding midrange they have. It bothers me the way very bright or harsh sounds bother other guy’s ears
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Man, that’s exactly what I feel about Splawns I’ve tried too. There’s a midrange response, kind of like a 5150,where you can’t dial it out. Very peaked. Plus even with the gears I find the saturation feels still, all too much the same across the range.
I tried a Runt 50 a while ago and felt that seemed to regain a lot of the midrange and top end character I find lacking in the BE’s. Also agree with earlier post about the early Marsha and first BE-100’s had more of that let’s rock this bitch sound.
Depending on need for a dedicated clean the OP might want to consider a Yeti maybe. That amp has my interest.
 
Some of you guys are very fortunate. I wish I had a good enough job that I could justify $4k on an amp. However, I agree with some of you guys, for $4k, whether you're rich or not, that's a lot for something that doesn't suit your needs or tastes. I hope the op can return it and try something different that works out.
 
The amp has already been sent back to Sweetwater. It is what it is at this point. I’ve thought about trying the 50, but as stated it’s voiced similar.
 
skoora said:
Man, that’s exactly what I feel about Splawns I’ve tried too. There’s a midrange response, kind of like a 5150,where you can’t dial it out. Very peaked. Plus even with the gears I find the saturation feels still, all too much the same across the range.
I tried a Runt 50 a while ago and felt that seemed to regain a lot of the midrange and top end character I find lacking in the BE’s. Also agree with earlier post about the early Marsha and first BE-100’s had more of that let’s rock this bitch sound.
Depending on need for a dedicated clean the OP might want to consider a Yeti maybe. That amp has my interest.
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I would take the 5150’s over the Splawn’s, but with the 5150’s/6505’s it’s more that they always sounded too congested to me. I never liked the way all these famous bands sounded on them despite loving their actual playing & music itself (like All That Remains as 1 example). The Splawn’s have this weird thing going on where it’s both quacky and hollow/notched at the same time with some lacking growl & tonal holes somewhere in the midrange. I think this is the “weird” mids some guys mention. I personally find it to be an awful sound, but some guys I guess love them still. I would rather even hear an overly bright/harsh amp or a too tubby sound over those awful mids if I had to choose. It’s like picking your poison with those 3 choices lol
 
Racerxrated said:
I thought maybe like a 2203 vs 2204…similar yet kinda different
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IME they are like that, but not as much so as with the 2203 vs 2204. I’d take the 50 deluxe if I had to choose, but you already know very well that I wouldn’t keep either amp in my arsenal
 
braintheory said:
I would take the 5150’s over the Splawn’s, but with the 5150’s/6505’s it’s more that they always sounded too congested to me. I never liked the way all these famous bands sounded on them despite loving their actual playing & music itself (like All That Remains as 1 example). The Splawn’s have this weird thing going on where it’s both quacky and hollow/notched at the same time with some lacking growl & tonal holes somewhere in the midrange. I think this is the “weird” mids some guys mention. I personally find it to be an awful sound, but some guys I guess love them still. I would rather even hear an overly bright/harsh amp or a too tubby sound over those awful mids if I had to choose. It’s like picking your poison with those 3 choices lol
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This is my Splawn Super Sport w/EL34s thru a Splawn 2x12 w/Greenbacks boosted with a Cusack Screamer. Recorded at loud bedroom volumes last year with a relic iPhone 7 lol. I really like the tone but if anyone hears weird mids I won't have hurt feelings just don't make fun of my socks :D



 
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