The Pickup Seymour Wound For Van halen

[Rocksoff]

EVH's VH1 amp has nothing to do with Metroamp or clips of people trying to do an EVH clone thing.

It's coming from Ted Templeman, you know, the dude that was there.

The first quote I saw was that EVH wanted to borrow Ronnie's amp so I thought it was the Bandmaster, but Ted has said it more than once and has further elaborated that it was Ronnie's Marshall head and that EVH did borrow it.

Ronnie was using PAF's presumably (Ronnie only used a Big Muff for some things on Bad Motor Scooter otherwise it was straight into the amp) and EVH wasn't, EVH was at least using higher output rewound PAF's or Super Distortions/Mighty Mites, so EVH would be driving Ronnie's Marshall harder than Ronnie, so direct sound clip comparisons of Ronnie's Marshall are not going to exactly match EVH and VH1 for a number of reasons including pickups and EVH smothering just about everything in an Echoplex repeat/Phasor and Ted/Donn's reverb.

So if anyone thinks that the VH1 amp sounds somewhat different to VHII, then it might be due o Ronnie's Marshall head.

 

[charvelstrat81]

EVH's VH1 amp has nothing to do with Metroamp or clips of people trying to do an EVH clone thing.

It's coming from Ted Templeman, you know, the dude that was there.

The first quote I saw was that EVH wanted to borrow Ronnie's amp so I thought it was the Bandmaster, but Ted has said it more than once and has further elaborated that it was Ronnie's Marshall head and that EVH did borrow it.

Ronnie was using PAF's presumably (Ronnie only used a Big Muff for some things on Bad Motor Scooter otherwise it was straight into the amp) and EVH wasn't, EVH was at least using higher output rewound PAF's or Super Distortions/Mighty Mites, so EVH would be driving Ronnie's Marshall harder than Ronnie, so direct sound clip comparisons of Ronnie's Marshall are not going to exactly match EVH and VH1 for a number of reasons including pickups and EVH smothering just about everything in an Echoplex repeat/Phasor and Ted/Donn's reverb.

So if anyone thinks that the VH1 amp sounds somewhat different to VHII, then it might be due o Ronnie's Marshall head.

According to the author of "Van Halen rising" GREG RENOFF the Montrose marshall was not used?

Hi all,

First I need to apologize for not replying to a message someone
here sent me about this thread. I read the message and then when I went to look for it to reply I couldn't
find it.

The short answer, as I lay out in Van Halen Rising, is that Ed expressed interest in
using Ronnie's amp when Ted first talked with Ed about recording the LP. I assume this was in
the spring of 77, some months before they went into SS in late August.

In the end though Ed never used or best of my knowledge even got his hands on
RM's amp.

Cheers Greg

 

[charvelstrat81]

And i have a beat to shit Custom, the first one that dewd gave me way back when and it sounds the best of all of them.

There's definitely something to it.

Glad i am not imagining things
It is not night and day of a difference but enough to notice especially under the fingers when you are actually playing a older one.
it responds different than the new one which feels real stiff and cold to me.
Duncan also offers three different JB's
the regular JB, the 35th and the antiquity JB and there is differences in tone even though duncan said
they all have the same wind.

 

[midnightlaundry]

5/10

I like the Atomica discussion better..

 

[charvelstrat81]

5/10

I like the Atomica discussion better..

read the BLADES thread!

 

[Rocksoff]

EVH's VH1 amp has nothing to do with Metroamp or clips of people trying to do an EVH clone thing.

It's coming from Ted Templeman, you know, the dude that was there.

The first quote I saw was that EVH wanted to borrow Ronnie's amp so I thought it was the Bandmaster, but Ted has said it more than once and has further elaborated that it was Ronnie's Marshall head and that EVH did borrow it.

Ronnie was using PAF's presumably (Ronnie only used a Big Muff for some things on Bad Motor Scooter otherwise it was straight into the amp) and EVH wasn't, EVH was at least using higher output rewound PAF's or Super Distortions/Mighty Mites, so EVH would be driving Ronnie's Marshall harder than Ronnie, so direct sound clip comparisons of Ronnie's Marshall are not going to exactly match EVH and VH1 for a number of reasons including pickups and EVH smothering just about everything in an Echoplex repeat/Phasor and Ted/Donn's reverb.

So if anyone thinks that the VH1 amp sounds somewhat different to VHII, then it might be due o Ronnie's Marshall head.

According to the author of "Van Halen rising" GREG RENOFF the Montrose marshall was not used?

Hi all,

First I need to apologize for not replying to a message someone
here sent me about this thread. I read the message and then when I went to look for it to reply I couldn't
find it.

The short answer, as I lay out in Van Halen Rising, is that Ed expressed interest in
using Ronnie's amp when Ted first talked with Ed about recording the LP. I assume this was in
the spring of 77, some months before they went into SS in late August.

In the end though Ed never used or best of my knowledge even got his hands on
RM's amp.

Cheers Greg

It really needs Ted himself to clear things up.

The VH1 amp (whatever it was, could be more than 1 amp) lacks bottom end IMO, and I don't know if that's because of the mics or whatever and/or maybe EVH using a 50 watter or who knows, but even EVH was expecting something different to how it came out.

 

[charvelstrat81]

It really needs Ted himself to clear things up.

The VH1 amp (whatever it was, could be more than 1 amp) lacks bottom end IMO, and I don't know if that's because of the mics or whatever and/or maybe EVH using a 50 watter or who knows, but even EVH was expecting something different to how it came out.

I still think it was a 50 watt marshall not the 100 watt he is known for.

 

[lll]

You'll probably find this Ted Templeman quote very interesting:

Ted Templeman interview by David Gans
http://dgans.com/writings/templeman/templeman03.pdf

Van Halen wanted me to produce their albums because they liked the way Ronnie Montrose sounded on the
two albums I did with him. I know how to pull the tubes out of an old Marshall amp and make it hurt, you know?
To make guitars sound like chainsaws.

Perhaps what Ted did (seeing how Eddie wanted to use Ronnie's 50 watter) was pull 2 power tubes
out of Ed's 100 watter so it would be similar to a 50 watter.

 

[texwest]

Rocksoff,if you had to buy a amp today to achieve the first van halen album sound which would it be.

If you want the 1st VH sound get a Metroplex from George at Metropoulos. Or a 12000 '68 SL replica from him. Both get that sound. The '68 circuit was different and many today don't like it. It sounds and feels different in person than it does recorded. Most want a MUCH tighter power section and another gain stage to smooth it out. The Suhr SL68 gets it as well. I'm just loyal to George because he did it first, but John makes a killer product and has been in THE amp.

And Ed did use 12301 on VH1. Sheesh. It sounded bigger than it was because of the masterful engineering by Donn Landee who used the reverb/echo chamber at Sunset with some pre delay. I used to work for the band and Ed said DL made it sound like more than it was.

Get the Metro, put a Catalinbread Belle Epoch in front of it, the EMT plate emulator pedal they just released in the loop (more of a 1984 vs. VH1 reverb sound but it is still good) and you are there. Any A2 humbucker in the 9-10dc range (it helps if it is asymmetric but not necessary) will work, but if you want Jamie's Cryin' or Feel Your Love then the A8 offerings out there will get you close.

There is so much speculation out there about Ed and that tone but it isn't as complicated as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

This

 

[texwest]

I bought one of the first few Metropoulos 12000 series with virtual variac from George back in 2006 and it got into the VH territory.

But later I changed it to the spec that Dave Friedman listed on Metroamp forum. I only had to change the filtering and the .0022, but on my amp I actually left the NFB at 47k 8ohm. The amp had plenty, and I mean plenty of gain for VH1 with the NFB left alone. I experimented with adding the 220-470 across v2a but decided against it. I also installed the larmar PPIMV and the no loss effects loop so I could add reverb. The 100uf on the phase inverter and the 32/32 preamp filtering really changed the feel of the amp for the better.

Now it is soooo close to VH1, that I'm utterly convinced it was the 12 series marshall variaced down that he used. And you absolutely don't need an distortion pedal to get enough gain out of this amp.

It sounds incredibly close with a Duncan Custom Custom. A ceramic Super Distortion gets close too but not quite right in my guitar. But with my setup the custom custom is closer. Granted I'm playing a PRS custom 24. Believe it or not the prs HFS pickup really had the distortion of VH1 absolutely perfect, but that pickup is a bit shrill in tone quality. I haven't experimented alot with pickups because I'm pretty happy where I am. But based on my experience with the HFS, experimenting with different ceramic pickups will get you there.

I'm also using the Clinch FX Ep Pre which helps nail the tone as well. With the .0022 the amp is pretty bright and that warms it up and give it a bit of a boost.

The point is that this really is not that hard of a tone to get if you use a variaced marshall with the right spec and then experiment with pickups. This really is doable! It's really simple actually! I'm convinced there is no mystery anymore.

 

[texwest]

Dave Friedman's VH spec from the metroamp forum. It worked on my amp and I was shocked how close it got me.

Split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF,Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF

470k mixer resistors
500pf [red out of 69 amp] mixer bypass cap
Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
33k/560pF lemco tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
0.1 uF cap on presence control
.022uf output couplers

filtering is
2] 100uf's f&t in series mains
2] 32uf's f&t in series screens
1]100uf lcr phase inverter
1] dual 33 x 33 f&t preamp

 

[charvelstrat81]

I bought one of the first few Metropoulos 12000 series with virtual variac from George back in 2006 and it got into the VH territory.

But later I changed it to the spec that Dave Friedman listed on Metroamp forum. I only had to change the filtering and the .0022, but on my amp I actually left the NFB at 47k 8ohm. The amp had plenty, and I mean plenty of gain for VH1 with the NFB left alone. I experimented with adding the 220-470 across v2a but decided against it. I also installed the larmar PPIMV and the no loss effects loop so I could add reverb. The 100uf on the phase inverter and the 32/32 preamp filtering really changed the feel of the amp for the better.

Now it is soooo close to VH1, that I'm utterly convinced it was the 12 series marshall variaced down that he used. And you absolutely don't need an distortion pedal to get enough gain out of this amp.

It sounds incredibly close with a Duncan Custom Custom. A ceramic Super Distortion gets close too but not quite right in my guitar. But with my setup the custom custom is closer. Granted I'm playing a PRS custom 24. Believe it or not the prs HFS pickup really had the distortion of VH1 absolutely perfect, but that pickup is a bit shrill in tone quality. I haven't experimented alot with pickups because I'm pretty happy where I am. But based on my experience with the HFS, experimenting with different ceramic pickups will get you there.

I'm also using the Clinch FX Ep Pre which helps nail the tone as well. With the .0022 the amp is pretty bright and that warms it up and give it a bit of a boost.

The point is that this really is not that hard of a tone to get if you use a variaced marshall with the right spec and then experiment with pickups. This really is doable! It's really simple actually! I'm convinced there is no mystery anymore.

This guy just used a GERMINO LEAD 55 and a stock EBMM axis and was pretty much dead on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3_3y9yoWqg
and here is the original to compare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K0LAE-Fel8
Picture his amp in sunset studio with the same plate verb,and effects and a ASH strat loaded with a Duncan Custom