Tight Vs Saggy (Loose) amps

[stephen sawall]

Discuss. I mean more high gain here by the way. (I'm bored)

By tight/loose I mean like VHT - Tight. Mesa DR - Loose.

I take it you are talking about Fryette amps when you say VHT ?

I own and use both .... in general I like tight better, but both have a place in what I do.

 

[petejt]

tight. really tight. i love an amplifier that is well designed and tracks well.

for solos though it also needs to be loose - nothing i hate more than fighting an amplifier to play a lead tone.

This, right here, exactly. I like a loose, more fluid lead tone where the notes blend better but I HATE when my notes get muddy and squished together on the rhythm side....If that makes any sense

It makes sense to me. It's what I like too. A bit of bloom is great for leads but gets too blurry for rhythms.

 

[petejt]

There are many other factors to consider. I have played some very tight amps that I did not care for and some that I did and vice versa. My Wizard is very tight yet there is an openess to it's tone. I like amps that have alot of depth and more dimension to their tone. Harmonic complexity. A super tight amp can be a sterile cold turd with no dimension or complexity. Yet there are amps that have a little more sag that are also cold and sterile.

My Mesa/Boogie already has a rich sound, but my personal "trick" to give it that harmonic complexity texture is to run a chorus effect in front of it. I found that's what I like about chorus, rather than the post-amp big wide 80s style power chorus, or the fast wobble sound. Interesting to note too is that I use an SR&D Rockman Stereo Chorus rack unit to do the job.


And damn I'd love to own a Wizard amp! You're right too on how it has that openness in its tone yet is very tight. That's what I love about that amp.

 

[jet66]

I don't like it too loose, when it comes to higher gain, but I don't like it super tight, either. ENGL amps are too tight for me, going by the Blackmore. It's definitely subjective, though. My dirty tone preferences are along the mid-to-later-80's rock/metal, I assume that might be considered looser vs. tighter. I like it to be a little compressed, but not overly so.

 

[Shask]

You cant make a tight amp sound bigger and looser, no matter how much outboard gear you add.

Well, you can sorta try.

To let the cat out of the bag, I have a fuzz pedal now that I use with my MarkIV for looser-style tones. It probably does the job a bit too well because I'm fighting against the looseness, everything just blurts out and sputters if I play too hard and intricate. I'm used to thundering on those low strings- but as it's been said how a looser sound works best for leads, well, the fuzz is better suited to single notes and on the upper strings. It doesn't get cloudy like on the lower strings, it has this great warmth and butteryness. Speaking of which...........

I should do a clip when I get back home. I need to practice though.

Actually I have an Aphex Guitar Exciter pedal that sort of works. I forgot about this thing until someone recommended it to me the other week, and I remembered I had one in a drawer, and drug it out I was playing it with my Mark III the other day, and I could get REALLY close to the sound of my Recto. It added quite a bit of blooming low end to it. Sounded pretty good actually.

But, in the end, you can try, but its not the same

 

[glip22]

There are many other factors to consider. I have played some very tight amps that I did not care for and some that I did and vice versa. My Wizard is very tight yet there is an openess to it's tone. I like amps that have alot of depth and more dimension to their tone. Harmonic complexity. A super tight amp can be a sterile cold turd with no dimension or complexity. Yet there are amps that have a little more sag that are also cold and sterile.

My Mesa/Boogie already has a rich sound, but my personal "trick" to give it that harmonic complexity texture is to run a chorus effect in front of it. I found that's what I like about chorus, rather than the post-amp big wide 80s style power chorus, or the fast wobble sound. Interesting to note too is that I use an SR&D Rockman Stereo Chorus rack unit to do the job.


And damn I'd love to own a Wizard amp! You're right too on how it has that openness in its tone yet is very tight. That's what I love about that amp.

I really dig my Wizard. There were quite a few quirks to sort through with this amp but I believe Hollywood once said the MC is the wheel and even the wheel had to improved upon. At least for my amp this was true. Jerry of FJA corrected my filtering and grounding issues and now this amp is freakin killer. But, you got to turn it up which is about 4 on the lead master.

 

[Devilinside]

Elmwood M90! KT88's can make it as tight as you want, but not in a tinny way. It sounds absoloutely HUGE!

 

[Mailman1971]

There are many other factors to consider. I have played some very tight amps that I did not care for and some that I did and vice versa. My Wizard is very tight yet there is an openess to it's tone. I like amps that have alot of depth and more dimension to their tone. Harmonic complexity. A super tight amp can be a sterile cold turd with no dimension or complexity. Yet there are amps that have a little more sag that are also cold and sterile.

My Mesa/Boogie already has a rich sound, but my personal "trick" to give it that harmonic complexity texture is to run a chorus effect in front of it. I found that's what I like about chorus, rather than the post-amp big wide 80s style power chorus, or the fast wobble sound. Interesting to note too is that I use an SR&D Rockman Stereo Chorus rack unit to do the job.


And damn I'd love to own a Wizard amp! You're right too on how it has that openness in its tone yet is very tight. That's what I love about that amp.

what an AWESOME video!

 

[gtrjunior]

tight. really tight. i love an amplifier that is well designed and tracks well.

for solos though it also needs to be loose - nothing i hate more than fighting an amplifier to play a lead tone.

So how do you make an inherently tight amp looser just for solos? I have a Splawn QR which is what I would consider a tight amp. I like it for rhythm work but I'd like it if I could loosen it up for solos....ideas??

 

[Faded Abyss]

I would like to know how you guys take a tight amp and loosen it up. preferably NOT in front of the pre-amp

and ive always wondered why mesa amps (or most amps in general) dont have a resonance knob for the power amp section. May not do magic with tightness but it could help take some mud out.

 

[311splawndude]

My Single Rec Rectoverb is pretty damn tight but it has no tube rectification (only silicone) and I'm hitting it with a clean boost

tight. really tight. i love an amplifier that is well designed and tracks well.

for solos though it also needs to be loose - nothing i hate more than fighting an amplifier to play a lead tone.

So how do you make an inherently tight amp looser just for solos? I have a Splawn QR which is what I would consider a tight amp. I like it for rhythm work but I'd like it if I could loosen it up for solos....ideas??

B+ and 'old-new' mods

(good to see ya gtrjunior)

 

[maddnotez]

Cool thread and a tough choice.

I had a Pitbull 100CL and would consider that a tight amp. It was one of the meanest tones and I loved it. (would like to get another someday)

Currently I have a Rev 2 Uber and I guess I would consider that saggy. Best way I can explain the long bark it has. That is also one of the best tones ever.

I am still in the honeymoon phase with the Bogner and need to roll a few tubes but if I HAD to choose one I would go with the Bogner. I can't really compare any other "loose" amps so I am not sure if that is a fair comparison and idk what I would choose if the Rev 2 didn't exist.

Ideally I like and want both. I've heard both of these amps together and it was pretty damn amazing.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Cool thread and a tough choice.

I had a Pitbull 100CL and would consider that a tight amp. It was one of the meanest tones and I loved it. (would like to get another someday)

Currently I have a Rev 2 Uber and I guess I would consider that saggy. Best way I can explain the long bark it has. That is also one of the best tones ever.

I am still in the honeymoon phase with the Bogner and need to roll a few tubes but if I HAD to choose one I would go with the Bogner. I can't really compare any other "loose" amps so I am not sure if that is a fair comparison and idk what I would choose if the Rev 2 didn't exist.

Ideally I like and want both. I've heard both of these amps together and it was pretty damn amazing.

You can't go wrong with a Rev2 Uberschall. My hands down, go to, favorite amp in my collection.

I run this combination:
v1 Tung-sol 12AX7 re-issue
v2 Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen
v3 Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen
v4 JJ EC803S
v5 Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen - balanced
v6 Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen - balanced

The Tung-sol RI and JJ ECC803S really open up the clean channel.

I tried all kinds of combination of pre amp tubes. I found the Tung Sol RI and the JJ ECC803 really opened up the clean channel, gave it a richer tone. I even swapped them with each other, but nothing touched how they sounded in this order. The gain channel sounded best with the Chinese tubes to me. For the loop and phase inverter the Chinese tubes are fine. I just went with balanced, although not needed, because they didn't cost that much more. The stock ARS tubes are relabeled JJ EL34 tubes. I went with the JJ E34L tubes for the extended bottom end they offer. Currently back to the JJ EL34 tubes. This set-up works great for me.

 

[Rdodson]

I think the confusion on the tightness thing with an SLO is that the power section is very hifi and can handle all the frequencies without sagging, but the preamp design has a bloomy character to it if 1. you don't set the gain too high and 2. you are miserly with the presence. Then, get it past 4 on the Master and you have both tight AND bloom. And I think that is part of the magic and enduring quality of the SLO.

 

[sleewell2]

I love my sig x. very tight and articulate.

saggy amps certainly have their place though, I don't think one is better or worse than the other but you just have to know what tool to use for what job.

 

[bionicmark]

Hey guys!! Cool topic!

Can we get a list going of what amps we're describing as "tight" and "unforgiving"?

I've owned (most all of them at one point being someone who likes to try them all) and I think the tightest amps are:

Carol Ann Tritik - 100watt
2005 3 pre amp tube Splawn Quick Rod
VHT Ultralead - I didn't really think it was all that tight, actually...almost as tight as the 3 pre Splawn.

Fun topic!

 

[RockyStar]

For tight with and aggressive pick attack my favorite amp is the VH4. My favorite amp with some sag in it is the Uberschall. The Hagen and Herbert are a happy blend between the two to my ears.

 

[mooncobra]

I like amps tight, with definition, and to be very articulate. I want my amps to feel like they sound.

 

[MontiCristo]

Mine is very tight, have to crank the crap out of it to get any kind of power section compression going.

I've never heard anybody call a SLO "loose".

An SLO is not a tight amp by any means. Play a Diezel and then play an SLO and then call me in the morning.

 

[MontiCristo]

This is a fun topic indeed. It really depends on what kind of player you are. If you are a metal / high gain rhythm guitarist you will probably lean more towards a "tight" amp. If you are a lead / melodic guitarist you will lean towards a "loose" or saggy amp. I have had both in a variety of different forms and have found loose amps to be much more fun to play. A peppers dirty tree can take a loose amp and tighten it up if need be, but going from tight to loose is difficult. Loose amps with more sag are where it's at for me. For example I currently have a Diezel Big max and a headfirst Alta 100. The feel on the Alta and playability is better than the big max, but the Big max has it beat in thickness and depth.