Trying to perfect my Wet/Dry/Wet rig

[Gainfreak]

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I have a Marshall JMP, will have the JVM soon. I run my JMP to the THD Hotplate to the dry cabinet (no attenuation), OS 2x12 with Celestion Heritage Greenbacks. I take the line out of the THD Hotplate and run it to my Lexicon MPX-1 which then goes out (L & R) to my Carvin DCM-150 (L & R in). The Carvin DCM-150 then feeds to (2) seperate CAA 1x12's cabinets loaded with Eminence Governor speakers. Has anyone compared the line out of the Hot Plate to the H&K Red Box? I think the Eminence Governor speakers may be a bit too dark compared to my Greenbacks. I would just like to hear suggestions from those who have used and experimented with this set-up longer than I have. Using guitar speakers for the 100% wet effects really should not need any type of cab sim from what I understand. Thanks!

I used a slave rig for years but I never used a hotplate for the line out signal. That said, you should not need any speaker sims at all. What I do find handy is either having an EQ before the speakers of a poweramp that has a presence control. It can do wonder for your tone but it also add a shitload of more tweeking.


The rig I used to use was a Boogie MKIV into a marshall se100 speaker emultor then to a lexicon pcm80 then to a Boogie 2:90 poweramp and then out to my speakers. I used no dry cab and I use the slave out of the boogie

 

[Digital Jams]

I have the Redbox Pro which may not be in production anymore, the Pro allows you to turn off the cab sims. The whole reason for the sims on the RB is to plug direct into a PA or mixing console....direct purposes.

The RedBox will connect in the same way your THD does and leave the sims off.

 

[Gainfreak]

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Thanks. With that set-up I would assume you were sending dry signal as well? I find that stomp box effects don't really work well with the wet cabinets becasue they send the dry signal when off. My Lexicon MPX-1 allows to bypass the effect as well as the dry signal so when I do not want effects, the wet cabs are silent. I'm hoping the new Eventide Time Factor will have that feature as well.

Yes, I had the lexicon setup for the correct amount of wet/dry ratio for the presets I used. I don't like a dry sound in gerneral, so that's why I never used the 3rd cab

 

[Gainfreak]

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Interesting. Since the JMP does not have a line out, I have to set the Hotplate to put a load on the amp in order to cancel out the main dry cabinet. Then, it just does not feel the same even if I set the Lexicon ratio to have some of the dry signal going to the wet cabinets. So I'm stuck at the moment with a dry cabinet and (2) wet cabinets. I think this is where a tube power amp would help. Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to use a dry cabinet either, I never play dry. I'm hoping the JVM and the Cameron Plexi's loop are good enough to run the Lexicon through, then I can get some of this gear out of the way

You could always do what I do and set the Hotplate on load.(I use a Marshall Se 100 which has been replaced by an Axetrak silent speaker) This will eliminate the dry cab and It will make the amp totally silent. Then you can take the signal out of the HP and send it to your effects and then out to your cabs.

 

[Gainfreak]

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Exactly. However, when I pass that signal through the Carvin DCM-150, I lose the feeling I have when the dry cabinet is going. For effects only, I think the DCM-150 is fine, I'm not so sure about re-amping though, i think a tube power amp may be better.

then you are definitely loosing something by using the poweramp. When I started slaving amps, everyone was touting that a solid state poweramp was the way to go because of Eddie. Well after doing the research, the HH poweramps were trying to emulate a tube, so I shit-canned the solid state theory, got my Boogie Poweramp and NEVER looked back. Just for piece of mind, I tried the solid state rig again and again and it sucked. I still get into arguments about the SS vs Tube stuff and I can hear a different and certainly feel the difference so I use the tube slave!

 

[Gainfreak]

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It looks like the JVM has an "emulated line out", I'm wondering if this will work as a line out for the wet/dry thing rather than having to use the Hotplate's line out? I'm aslo thinking I may be able to have Mark C. install a line out on my Plexi Reissue while he is in the process of doing the mod. Then I could quit using the Hotplate since I don't use attenuation anyway. Hmmmm.

I think that you would be better off using the effects send instead of the emulated line out.
The effects send is essentailly the preamp out and I use the send for slaving amps that do not have a slave out. The emulated line out is for direct recording and probably will not sound good in a slaved amp situation. I also think it only works when the amp is on standby

The hook up would be JVM to the dry speaker or Dummy load > effects send to your effects> then the o/p of your effects to the slave amp or poweramp>and then out to your speakers.

The boogies do it differently becuase the boogies slave out captures the whole i/p and o/p section of the amp and not just the preamp. You can totally hear a difference on the Boogie when you use the send or the slave as the line level i/p to the effects.

 

[Gainfreak]

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The boogies do it differently becuase the boogies slave out captures the whole i/p and o/p section of the amp and not just the preamp

This is what Mark C. may be able to do for me on the Plexi Reissue.

I'm pretty sure he can!!!

 

[MrDan666]

Hey Ralph, with my W/D rig im using the ADA B200S poweramp for my wet fx. Its the solidstate one. Will a tube poweramp make a big difference tonally?

Also is it better to use the same speakers in all your cabs for a W/D/W rig?

My dry cab is a Marshall 1960 with greenbacks, and my wet cab is a 1x12 Marshall with a vintage Fane speaker in it. I dont think they're matching well tonally, so im thinking of just going with 3 cabs with all greenies...

 

[Gainfreak]

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Hey Ralph, with my W/D rig im using the ADA B200S poweramp for my wet fx. Its the solidstate one. Will a tube poweramp make a big difference tonally?

Also is it better to use the same speakers in all your cabs for a W/D/W rig?

My dry cab is a Marshall 1960 with greenbacks, and my wet cab is a 1x12 Marshall with a vintage Fane speaker in it. I dont think they're matching well tonally, so im thinking of just going with 3 cabs with all greenies...

It's really a matter of preferance bro. I still have some friends who like solid state slaves but I don't dig it. Tubes just work for me and they FEEL better IMHO. You can use different speakers for the W/D/W rig as long as you like the sound. Some guys use low wattage speakers for the dry, so that they can hear the speaker breakup and high wattage speakers for the effects. again, it's a matter of preferance. I think using the same speaker all around will give you a better idea of what the audiance is hearing. (which is why I used to only run a wet rig with no dry cabs)

 

[Gainfreak]

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Since my main speakers are the 25W Greenbacks, I would like to find a higher wattage version with similar characteristics for my 1x12's.

If you dig greenbacks then check out the celestion 65's.

 

[MrDan666]

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It's really a matter of preferance bro. I still have some friends who like solid state slaves but I don't dig it. Tubes just work for me and they FEEL better IMHO. You can use different speakers for the W/D/W rig as long as you like the sound. Some guys use low wattage speakers for the dry, so that they can hear the speaker breakup and high wattage speakers for the effects. again, it's a matter of preferance. I think using the same speaker all around will give you a better idea of what the audiance is hearing. (which is why I used to only run a wet rig with no dry cabs)

Yeah that makes sense, I think the only Solid state ones that would be worthit are the ones that are atleast supposed to sound tube-like (H&H or Mosvalve).

Ideally i would prefer to go with 3 4x12 cabs with greenbacks in all of em, but to be honest i dont know how the hell i could lug around 3 cabs for gigs haha It would be worthit just to see the look on peoples faces when you bring in 3 cabs though LOL

 

[Gainfreak]

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Yes, I am interested in hearing those Celestion Heritage G1265's. If I continue on with this OS 2x12, I'm probably going to have to dump the 25W Greenbacks eventually because I'll have to play very cautiously with the JVM. So either I'll have to get a pair of 65's or go with one of those Avatar 4x12's with 4 GB's.

I love Greenbacks!! The cool thing is that everyone who I know who likes greenbacks has liked the 65. I think that you would dig them.

 

[Santiall]

in the JVM you have 3 places to take a line out, the parallel loop send, the serial loop send and the emulated line out. The 1st one is pre-reverb, then 2nd one is pre-master. The emulated line out has an speaker simulator and maybe it is not adecquate for what you want.

In any case, if you plan to use only the preamplifier in the JVM, you can leave the amp in standby. All the functions work in standby, just the power amp is disabled and there is no need to have a load IF the amp is all the time in standby. Don't forget to plug a load if leaving standby mode.

Santiago

 

[Gainfreak]

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in the JVM you have 3 places to take a line out, the parallel loop send, the serial loop send and the emulated line out. The 1st one is pre-reverb, then 2nd one is pre-master. The emulated line out has an speaker simulator and maybe it is not adecquate for what you want.

In any case, if you plan to use only the preamplifier in the JVM, you can leave the amp in standby. All the functions work in standby, just the power amp is disabled and there is no need to have a load IF the amp is all the time in standby. Don't forget to plug a load if leaving standby mode.

Santiago

Know it all. sheeesh... You act like you designed the amp or somethin.....

 

[MrDan666]

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I love Greenbacks!! The cool thing is that everyone who I know who likes greenbacks has liked the 65. I think that you would dig them.

Do the 65's really sound that similar to the 25w Greenies?

 

[Gainfreak]

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Do the 65's really sound that similar to the 25w Greenies?

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth and say that they do because I am only going by memory but I love the 65's and they definitely had a greenback wuality to them. I want to pick up a quad of them in the worst way..(always have)

FWIW, Mark Cameron swears by them and I played through one of Marks cabs that were loaded with the 65 and it killed!!

 

[jasonP]

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then you are definitely loosing something by using the poweramp. When I started slaving amps, everyone was touting that a solid state poweramp was the way to go because of Eddie. Well after doing the research, the HH poweramps were trying to emulate a tube, so I shit-canned the solid state theory, got my Boogie Poweramp and NEVER looked back. Just for piece of mind, I tried the solid state rig again and again and it sucked. I still get into arguments about the SS vs Tube stuff and I can hear a different and certainly feel the difference so I use the tube slave!

+1
I've tried both as well and come to the same opinion.

 

[MrDan666]

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I don't want to put my foot in my mouth and say that they do because I am only going by memory but I love the 65's and they definitely had a greenback wuality to them. I want to pick up a quad of them in the worst way..(always have)

FWIW, Mark Cameron swears by them and I played through one of Marks cabs that were loaded with the 65 and it killed!!

Well seeing as though my main amp is a Mark C modded JMP, thats gotta be a good thing!!

Damn you just given me gas :x

 

[Santiall]

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Know it all. sheeesh... You act like you designed the amp or somethin.....

nah, I just pretend :roll:

Donbarzini, nothing wrong with the Hotplate, I know what you mean with "something else missing", just use whatever works best for you. One thing I'll be interested to know is if you encounter and ground loop problem with the JVM, that can be really tricky sometimes.

S.

 

[Gainfreak]

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nah, I just pretend :roll:



S.

I wish I could pretend like you do!! I tried to build an amp once and only soldered the board and realized what an idiot I was and stopped !!