UltraRes IRs for Torpedo products?

[Jay Mitchell]

If someone likes his coffee with too much water for my taste, well, I won't try to convince him he's wrong. Unless his trying to lecture me using market-matical BS.

The term market-matical is new to me. I believe it may be closely related to electropolitical. I encounter electropolitical situations from time to time.

^^ And even then, you can't question his taste.

Well, you can, there's just no point in arguing about it....

 

[guillaume_pille]

Well, you can, there's just no point in arguing about it....

Absolutely, that's what I meant. This is what happens when I hit one of my (numerous) limitations in English. ^^

The term market-matical is new to me.

To me as well, I have to work a on concept for when I talk to audiophile market specialist. Electropolitical can work in a different situation I totally understand.

 

[djd100]

Thanks Jay and Guillaume, appreciate the technical explanation of what Cliff is adding to the Axe II.

Am I to believe then that they're typically just adding some bandwidth limited early reflections/room tone to their IR's.

Personally I prefer to do that with a quality room sim for control purposes, but then again I don't have the Axe II to try these new IR's (just an Ultra).

I will add that many record guitars with a blended room mic(s) in a damped environment so perhaps this is what they're attempting to replicate with the new IR's?

Thanks...

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Am I to believe then that they're typically just adding some bandwidth limited early reflections/room tone to their IR's.

That would be the most likely result. If a really long cab IR contained no room reflections, then Ultrares would include a longer - but band-limited - decay tail. In the case of guitar cabs, this tail is so low in level as to make an inaudible contribution to the sound of the IR.

Back when the first-gen Axe-Fx only had 512-point cab IRs, I devised a way to double the length by splitting a cab IR in half, applying the appropriate delay to the tail, and mixing the halves together in the Axe. Direct A/B comparisons revealed subtle but reliabily detectable differences. Shortly thereafter, Cliff found a way to double the length of the IR that could be processed to 1024 points. Based on the subtlety of the difference between 512 points (~10.5ms) and 1024 points (~21ms), I stated at the time that further increases in the size of IRs would yield negligible benefit.

I will add that many record guitars with a blended room mic(s) in a damped environment so perhaps this is what they're attempting to replicate with the new IR's?

Cliff's original justification was that you needed the longer IR to hear low-frequency detail in the response of a cab, but he posted a graph that included obvious effects due to room reflections. He later modified his stance to the one you speculate ("Embrace the room"). If that's really the goal, then "Ultrares" is definitely not the way to achieve it....

 

[djd100]

Thanks Jay, much appreciated!

Am I to believe then that they're typically just adding some bandwidth limited early reflections/room tone to their IR's.

That would be the most likely result. If a really long cab IR contained no room reflections, then Ultrares would include a longer - but band-limited - decay tail. In the case of guitar cabs, this tail is so low in level as to make an inaudible contribution to the sound of the IR.

Back when the first-gen Axe-Fx only had 512-point cab IRs, I devised a way to double the length by splitting a cab IR in half, applying the appropriate delay to the tail, and mixing the halves together in the Axe. Direct A/B comparisons revealed subtle but reliabily detectable differences. Shortly thereafter, Cliff found a way to double the length of the IR that could be processed to 1024 points. Based on the subtlety of the difference between 512 points (~10.5ms) and 1024 points (~21ms), I stated at the time that further increases in the size of IRs would yield negligible benefit.

I will add that many record guitars with a blended room mic(s) in a damped environment so perhaps this is what they're attempting to replicate with the new IR's?

Cliff's original justification was that you needed the longer IR to hear low-frequency detail in the response of a cab, but he posted a graph that included obvious effects due to room reflections. He later modified his stance to the one you speculate ("Embrace the room"). If that's really the goal, then "Ultrares" is definitely not the way to achieve it....

 

[thumperjack]

just call me lazerus. but hey, does the duration of the sine sweep have anything to do with what information the thing captures? because the axe fx sine sweep goes super fast, and the torpedo capture one goes real slow. i would think slow would be better, to give the cab a chance to settle into its resonance at each point in the sweep.

 

[guillaume_pille]

The Sine length has an effect on the signal to noise ration (the longer the better), and only that, as far as I know.