Van Halen I tones

[paulyc]

The MXR Micro Amp didn't come out until 1980 Edward couldn't have used it on Van halen 1.Speaking of MXR Micro Amp I have a new in the box MXR Micro Amp if interested send me a pm

Is that why you're selling it? Be honest now.

What do you think he is doing here? seems like a lot of sustain/gain from a 4 holer...

I imagine he's only running the variac like he always does

A 4 holer can easily get that amount of gain

The Variac doesn't do anything but make it quieter. Remember, he set it at 89-90 volts and cranked the bias in the amp to try to put the tube back in the right region, otherwise the bias would be cold and the amp would be stiff and lifeless. He also mentioned that Jose did little things to his MXR pedals that reduced noise and boosted gain, and George Lynch stated he used his Echoplex more for the tube distortion than the echo( Eddie used 2)...so string together a bunch of gain enhanced MXR boxes, a couple of tube echoplexs, a Variac'd hot biased Marshall, 20 watt Celestion speakers and his home made rewound pickup...spice with EMT plate reverb and Don Landee's ear for production and Ed's fingers and there it is.

The video with the Les Paul sounds like every live bootleg I've ever heard of VH...Argentina, US Festival, etc...great, but not VHI great.

 

[Mr. Willy]

It's also frustrating as a bastard that since he started with the damn Soldano, all his own amps have used 6L6s instead of EL34s, which just do everything SO much better IMO.

Hmmm...I sorta get what you're saying, but the SLO comes stock with 5881's and Eddie's Marshall had 6CA7's. 5881's may be in the same vein as 6L6's, but to me they're much more compressed than a 6L6. Same with EL34's and 6CA7's.

 

[paulyc]

There are other things at work besides the tubes...a Marshall is designed around EL34s...the output transformer has a certain Ohm value for EL34s...a Soldano may come with 5881s, but I doubt the 5881s that are made now are like , say old brown base Tung Sols or what have you...and the output transformer in a 6L6/5881 amp has a certain ohm value to it as well, which is why, to my ears anyway, an amp like a Dual Rectifier that CAN use both really doesn't do justice to either because there are design compromises right away when you pick one output tube over another.

Eddie went with the 6CA7s because they were the only tube that would take all his bullshit and not blow up...I think it was out of necessity, not any tonal preference. I think EL34s sound the best. I have a Friedman modded (BE/HBE) Marshall super bass with 6CA7s init and I hate it...I can't wait to try some EL34s in it...to me the 6CA7s are more like KT88s or 6550s...cool for what they are, but NOT the sound of a Marshall (at least when I think of Marshall).

 

[311splawndude]

Therein lies the rub...if Eddie's word can't be trusted and the interviewee in Guitar World is Eddie, can we assume he's telling the truth this time? I did read it, and I got the impression that he was telling the truth on this particular occasion.

Yep.

There is a rub there.

Also, he didn't drag stuff from the original studio that recorded VH1 to 5150 either.

And he wasn't chasing tone from VH1 throughout his career. It was obvious to me after reading that interview that he thought Van Halen albums could sound much much better. Hence 5150. Like it or not, his tone was better with the 5150 studio. Just sayin'

 

[paulyc]

No way. I didn't say he bought the EXACT stuff, just the same stuff...and that he DID do.

VHI blows everything else he's ever done out of the water, tone and playing wise.

The impetus behind 5150 studios wasn't because of VHI, it was because of Diver Down being half cover songs and the "stealing" of the Mini Moog riff for Dancing in the Streets...THAT was what finally pushed him over the edge.

At the time he described the sound of Eruption as huge and majestic and that Donn had a lot to do with making it sound like that...it's well known that the VH brothers never liked the drum sounds and that they felt the bass smothered everything. He also never liked that the guitar was only on one side of the stereo spectrum, and that the reverb (for the guitar) was on the other. If they could have combined Bonzo's drum sound with Ed's guitar from VHI and had the guitar on both sides, it would have been epic...and they would have been satisfied.

He could have bought anything he wanted at the time he built 5150, why did he choose a 2" 16 track tape machine over the more conventional 2" 24 track ? Cuz that's not what was used on VHI. Even the console, Donn had to rewire it to make it work...Ed described it as a WWII relic, but that's the same model console on VHI...had to have it.

They didn't upgrade ANYTHING until Andy Johns came in and they did FUCK, then they went to 24 tracks and a new API console...not the "antique" stuff they had been using.

 

[nitro]

Paulyc,"Micro amps were out before 1980 no doubt about it" how can that be....

 

[TrueTone500]

EVH CAN'T get that tone...he WANTS it, but he can't get it. When he built 5150, he bought EVERYTHING they recorded their first album on...console, tape deck, outboard gear, monitors, etc, etc, etc...I read that in a recording mag back in the day...then years later there was an interview in one of the guitar mags where he actually said he'd been chasing VH1 this whole time and he can't get it...my feeling is that it is the EMT plate that contributes some sizzle and obviously that wet quality, but Ed's stated he hated reverb, which is why when VHII came out it was gone....replaced by the "jape".

If he were trying to achieve the VH I sound, why would he use a 5150 amplifier?

The VH I tones sound like a 'slaved' set-up to me. I don't know of any other way to get that level of power tube compression at studio volumes. I think I may actually prefer his tone on VH II.

It was widely reported that he felt the amp broke...that it lost something. It's widely known that he and Matt Bruck took that amp to LOTS of LA techs...Bogner, Fryette, Friedman, Van Wielden, etc...trying to fix it or restore it back to what it once was...they couldn't. The last known appearance of that amp was on "Big Fat Money" solo on Balance...doesn't really sound high gain at all, and it's an old Gibson 335 into it, so it's got the vintage PAF thing going on.

I'm sure once he started with the Soldano it was hard to go back to a Marshall that you had to dime to make sound right. Remember Mike Soldano publicly stated that Peavey ripped off his design with the 5150 ? High gain amps were in vougue then, and a company like Peavey knew it...the amp has more gain than Ed would ever use (he set it around 7 on the dial), but it sold amps to kids that didn't have the strength in their hands to pull off his licks without it.

I doubt there was any slaving going on until the live tours for 1984 and after. His live rig was multiple Marshall heads strung together (daisy chained) until 1984, so why wouldn't he have slaved live if it sounded so good ? He complained that moving off to one side of the cabs or on the other side of the stge sounded like shit on the early tours. Bob Bradshaw takes credit for the w/d/w/ slave set up, and THAT was the tour for 5150...much later than VH1.

Great post!

Guy Hedrick told me that he was the first to rebuilt Ed's '68 while working as a tech Guitar Oasis. I think he said it was back in '85 or '89 maybe? He said that Jose had replaced the transformers and the 'mustard' caps, but nothing special in terms of modifications. He recommended to Ed that he rebuild the amp from the bottom up (transformers included), which is what he did. He said he made a few tweaks to the circuit... Something to do with the plate voltage if I recall correctly. I was told by a Suhr SL68 owner that the amp was designed by Guy Hedrick while he was employed at Suhr; and that the SL68 is based on the rebuild he did on Ed's '68 Plexi. What I respect about Guy, is that he (unlike others) has never used it his experience with Ed's amp to promote himself, or his products.

http://guyhedrick.com/Welcome.html

I was lucky enough to purchase #003 (Guy Hedrick built) Guytron GT20 combo, and I can't remember the last time I was so happy with a purchase. At the recommendation of Graydon Stucky, I removed the stock speaker yesterday, and replaced it with a Celestion Alnico Blue... Best sounding speaker I've ever played through! The GT20 is essentially a VOX AC15 circuit with mods on-the-fly! Master volume, dual effects loops (that work), built-in attenuator level select, slope resistor select, and focus select controls make it the most versatile amp I've ever owned. It has an XLR padded output with phase select for slaving and/or direct recording after the EL84 power amp. It also has a built-in Sennheiser mic mounted to the center side of the speaker cone.

I have 6 of those...4 16 ohm and 2 8 ohm. They do sound kick ass. I'd like to try the golds.

I have 2 x golds sitting here in-front of me. I'm going to use them in my North Coast VOX cabinet, but I may be talked into trading them for 2 x 8 Ohm blues...

 

[paulyc]

Let me think about that one. My Blues are old UK made (90s), what are your golds ?

 

[paulyc]

Paulyc,"Micro amps were out before 1980 no doubt about it" how can that be....

I have "line cards" from MXR back in the mid 70's and all the usual MXR suspects are there...including the Microamp. These are thin cardboard sheets with a picture of the effect on the front and all the specs on the back. I got these at Rayburn Music in Boston when I was a little kid in the mid 70s. I'll check to see if there is a date on them, but I KNOW it was before 1980.