Van Halen Panama tone

[Stradazone]

my Panama tone starts at at the 40 sec mark in this video, Jalen Origin pickup into echoplex, dimed Superlead, variac at 90 volts, no pitch detune, Celestion EVH speakers, I personally don't care for the pitch detune tone, I find it thins out the sound a bit for me...

 

[MrDowntown]

my Panama tone starts at at the 40 sec mark in this video, Jalen Origin pickup into echoplex, dimed Superlead, variac at 90 volts, no pitch detune, Celestion EVH speakers

I bought the origin 78, after watching your demo..put it in my EVH Wolfgang. Sounds really good through a marshall circuit.

btw..the guy that’s slinging axe in the former front mans band.... is the standard.

 

[311splawndude]

just some KILLER tone in this thread.

Hell Yeah!

 

[RedPlated]

my Panama tone starts at at the 40 sec mark in this video, Jalen Origin pickup into echoplex, dimed Superlead, variac at 90 volts, no pitch detune, Celestion EVH speakers, I personally don't care for the pitch detune tone, I find it thins out the sound a bit for me...

NICE!!

 

[Bishop5150]

I think your tone and playing sound great!

Thanks man!

 

[SpiderWars]

I thought I agreed with Al about the detune tone. But one of my favorite tones is Fair Warning which I now know has a slight dutune. I thought tones on 1984 were good, esp the songs mentioned above with the '58 V (I didn't know it was a different guitar just preferred those tones) but the more detune Eddie added the less I liked the tone.

So I never really went down the detune rabbit hole but the Fair Warning isolated tracks has changed that...dammit.

 

[paulyc]

I'll add a new wrinkle, I don't think there's ANY detune on any Ed track until 5150, it's just chorus. Go check that Curt Mitchell MVP EVH video where he uses an H3000 NOT on micropitch/detune but what he calls a heavy chorus or a slight flange. THAT'S the early jape, along with various amounts of reverb and/or echo, and it's on various tracks in varying amounts from VHII.

 

[SpiderWars]

I'll add a new wrinkle, I don't think there's ANY detune on any Ed track until 5150, it's just chorus. Go check that Curt Mitchell MVP EVH video where he uses an H3000 NOT on micropitch/detune but what he calls a heavy chorus or a slight flange. THAT'S the early jape, along with various amounts of reverb and/or echo, and it's on various tracks in varying amounts from VHII.

I thought chorus was detune but it oscillates. I'm not an expert on it but whatever he used on FW is what I'm interested in. Subtle enough that it's difficult to hear unless isolated.

 

[harddriver]

my Panama tone starts at at the 40 sec mark in this video, Jalen Origin pickup into echoplex, dimed Superlead, variac at 90 volts, no pitch detune, Celestion EVH speakers, I personally don't care for the pitch detune tone, I find it thins out the sound a bit for me...

Sounds great Al! Are there any attributes you like about the Jalen Origin versus the SD 78 model? Just curious as I know you have played both...

Great discussions going on in this thread.... It's really enjoyable.

Hey Redplated crank up the volume on your Wet channels on your next clip. I can't wait to hear what the SD59 sound like.

 

[harddriver]

I've heard Ed also used black back g12m. I have those in my 72' cab. Much tighter, brighter with aggressive upper mid.

I just ordered a Duncan 59 standard spaced bridge for my Charvel. I've got some A2 mags, I'll try it with the stock A5 also.

I think have the detune set wider than .9999, I'd have to check it again.

I may also re-bias the amp for 90v AC. Up to 50ma or so since plate voltage should be much lower. It's got a good set of Siemens/ RFT el34 in it. Wish I had a quad of Sylvania 6CA7. Come to think of it, I have two of those in a drawer and two more in my Mesa IIC+. Don't know if they will be within range of each other bias-wise.

You may get a little more 6L6 like clank out of the Sylvania 6ca7's but those Siemens/RFT and Telefunkens were probably the tightest most linear sounding EL34 tubes manufactured and I feel they give a tigher clankier tone much like a Kinkless Tetrode KT-77 or the beam forming element design of the 6CA7 or 6L6.

The Sylvania was pretty much a 6L6 design with an EL34 pinout and some tweaks. I don't think it's a mystery why Ed chose 6L6's for his Peaveys and EVH amps besides they are a robust tube to boot.

 

[PDC]

First things first, I could listen to Al’s clips on continuous loop for days and still be amazed by some nuance I hadn’t noticed before.

But for purposes of this thread: “I personally don't care for the pitch detune tone, I find it thins out the sound a bit for me...”

I totally get this - I have cycled more ‘chorus’ stomps on and off my board than any other effect for the same reason. Some of them also rounded off the high end and muted pick harmonics. Some sounded better in front of the amp and others worked better through the loop. But as far as transparency without thinning the tone down, I’m really sold on that little Mooer pitch box. And I like it out front more than I do through the loop.

 

[311splawndude]

Love a little detune mixed in.

So many great representations in this thread. You guys rock!

This thread has already reached legendary status.

I got an MXR Blue Chorus and works for me but admittedly I'm a noob at this stuff. LOVE Al's clip. I've heard it before but now in the context of this thread, like you are saying PDC, it brings on a whole new level. Love you took the solo at the end @Al Estrada and just ran with it

 

[MrDowntown]

First things first, I could listen to Al’s clips on continuous loop for days and still be amazed by some nuance I hadn’t noticed before.

But for purposes of this thread: “I personally don't care for the pitch detune tone, I find it thins out the sound a bit for me...”

I totally get this - I have cycled more ‘chorus’ stomps on and off my board than any other effect for the same reason. Some of them also rounded off the high end and muted pick harmonics. Some sounded better in front of the amp and others worked better through the loop. But as far as transparency without thinning the tone down, I’m really sold on that little Mooer pitch box. And I like it out front more than I do through the loop.

Im'a bitch for "budget" stuff... bought one after reading your initial post, and then watching a couple demo's... should arrive today!

 

[paulyc]

I thought chorus was detune but it oscillates. I'm not an expert on it but whatever he used on FW is what I'm interested in. Subtle enough that it's difficult to hear unless isolated.

Check Pete Thorn’s clip of the EVH MXR Chorus, exactly like Diver Down to my ears, and close enough for FW.

 

[RedPlated]

You may get a little more 6L6 like clank out of the Sylvania 6ca7's but those Siemens/RFT and Telefunkens were probably the tightest most linear sounding EL34 tubes manufactured and I feel they give a tigher clankier tone much like a Kinkless Tetrode KT-77 or the beam forming element design of the 6CA7 or 6L6.

The Sylvania was pretty much a 6L6 design with an EL34 pinout and some tweaks. I don't think it's a mystery why Ed chose 6L6's for his Peaveys and EVH amps besides they are a robust tube to boot.

That's a great point. In my Mesa IIC+, I run two Sylvania 6L6 and two Sylvania 6CA7. I've replaced the 6CA7's with standard el34's before and the amp gets noticeably tighter and aggressive.

I still want to see if I can make a matched quad out of the four Sylvania 6CA7's I currently have and try them at 90v in the Superlead.

I think the Duncan 59 should be here by Sunday. I'll make another clip with it and a higher mix of detune.

 

[PDC]

Check Pete Thorn’s clip of the EVH MXR Chorus, exactly like Diver Down to my ears, and close enough for FW.

I bought a brand new EVH chorus based on Pete’s video - and promptly returned it. It made a horrible digital ‘oscillation’ whenever engaged - whether through the loop or in front of the amp. I did a bit of a Google dive and discovered that a significant number of units from the initial run suffered from this very same defect and MXR was refunding and exchanging them left and right. Clearly, the unit they sent to Pete was not from defective run. It sounded incredible.

 

[harddriver]

Yeah I like my Sylvania 6CA7's but if you are in a pinch the EH6ca7 is about as close as you are going to get to actual modern beam forming element 6ca7's. I have A/B them and they sound pretty good but make sure you get them burned in to weed out the weak ones, that was almost 10 years ago so I don't know what the reliability is like these days with newer production. FWIW my clips of my 69 SL was using EH6ca7 if you want to compare to my 68 to see what you ears tell you.

90VAC ought to get you where you want to go tonewise with the sag you are looking for. I actually starting to look seriously at a eventide pitchfactor just for kicks as I want the exact .99999 and 9 cents setting. I imagine it has to sound better than my Boss PS-5's, it's and eventide......

 

[Stradazone]

Sounds great Al! Are there any attributes you like about the Jalen Origin versus the SD 78 model? Just curious as I know you have played both...

Great discussions going on in this thread.... It's really enjoyable.

Hey Redplated crank up the volume on your Wet channels on your next clip. I can't wait to hear what the SD59 sound like.

The Jalen Origin is a replica of the SD78, I A/B'd them and I heard no difference, the Jalen runs around $80 and the SD $160, it's a no brainer, plus much quicker build/delivery time from Jalen and ability to choose custom color or even tweak the specs a bit..wind, magnet, resistance

 

[harddriver]

The Jalen Origin is a replica of the SD78, I A/B'd them and I heard no difference, the Jalen runs around $80 and the SD $160, it's a no brainer, plus much quicker build/delivery time from Jalen and ability to choose custom color or even tweak the specs a bit..wind, magnet, resistance

Thanks for the honest comparison Al... I absolutely love my SD 78 so if I need another 78'sh PAF I'll keep Jalen in mind. You definitely make the Jalens sound good and I know you have a great ear for EVH stuff.

 

[harddriver]

That's a great point. In my Mesa IIC+, I run two Sylvania 6L6 and two Sylvania 6CA7. I've replaced the 6CA7's with standard el34's before and the amp gets noticeably tighter and aggressive.

I still want to see if I can make a matched quad out of the four Sylvania 6CA7's I currently have and try them at 90v in the Superlead.

I think the Duncan 59 should be here by Sunday. I'll make another clip with it and a higher mix of detune.

If you can't match the quad and you really want to hear the Sylvania's you can just run two in the two outer or two inner power tube sockets and drop your impedance from 16 ohms to 8ohms, it lessens the strain on the transformer when cranked and you are only working two tubes at time and it still punches like a 100 watter, I have run my 68 with two tubes pulled for years now and even with two tubes pulled it's still punches harder compared to my 72 SL 50 watter at the same volumes. It is because of the output transformer's mass and size/winding laminations versus the smaller 50 watter. I never heard much a difference...after pulling them mostly just some volume/DB reduction... I think 100 watt to 50 watt is like 6 DB worth of volume reduction.

My other trick that I have found is running the Marshall bright V1 volume and on about 7-8 and V2 bass channel on 2-3 it helps keeps the amp tight and defined without the woofy lows if you dime everything... but again YMMV and it's what you personally like anyway. If the SD59 is a bit bright then the A-2 will take care of that or a SD78 would be my other recommendation or the Jalen that Al just endorsed.