VH4, Herbert, or Einstien?

[FourT6and2]

The Einie does modern rhythm, no worries. I don't tend to use the ch1/mode2 'Texas' mode, but the clean is really nice. I'd certainly recommend the footswitch mod, btw. Not a complicated amp for the user but it sounds great wherever you put the dials, unlike my Rectifier!!

Obviously Adam Jones uses a VH4. It's a preference thing but I prefer the voicing of the Einstein when I A/B them. Still, though, the Einstein will do Tool-esqe volume rolls, tight picking, open sounding chords and absolutely controllable feedback if you have the guitar for it.

The Herb is another matter, it does high gain insanity better then either of the others (IMO) but for a Luddite like me who wants to turn something on & it works with no frills... the Einstein!

Yep Jones uses a VH-4 and I dig his tone. But, I don't really need to copy what he's doing. I assume that all three Diezel's have a similar, fundamental character because they are all...well...Diezel.

I really like the idea of a simple amp with not a lot of features, too. I'll just have to wait and play each one before I make a decision.

Money isn't really an issue at the moment, but it's still a big decision when we're talking $3,000+ for a guitar amp.

Absolutely - there are tonal similarities although the amps are definitely flavoured differently, and they all behave in the same general ballpark when the stages of gain are added. Which one you like is down to taste...

It'll definitely be worth trying to check out some of these guys amps if you're able. It sounds like the cultural thing in Japan is a bit of a nightmare for buying kit!!

I know that they are *relatively* more expensive then a lot of amps in the US, but to put them in perspective from a European point of view, the 100w Einie is about the same price as a Mesa Dual Rectifier (3400usd approx at current rates). I own both and I can tell you which one I use pretty much exclusively...

Yeah, the culture in Japan is much different. It's all about being polite (at least on the surface of things). So, just dropping into a music store to "try out" an amp is pretty much out of the question unless you really have an intention to purchase it.

I was politely asked to leave a store for playing a high-end acoustic for too long without appearing to be interested in buying it that day.

The service you get in stores of all types in Japan is way beyond that of stores in the USA. But, at the same time, the culture is such that customers can't really complain about something or request changes. For example, at a burger place Japanese people never really request changes to a burger (e.g. no pickles, or no mayo, or extra cheese, etc.) You get what is on the menue (being foreign, I can get away with asking for no mayo and pickles, though). But, at the same time, they will throw your garbage away for you, wait on you hand and foot, make everything look pretty, hold your bags for you, help you with your coat, and etc.

 

[FriedChickenBandit]

I'm thinking of getting another amp. I currently own a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30R and I used to own an Uberschall (which I liked more than my Hot Cat).

I'm looking at another Uberschall, VH4, Einstien, or Herbert.

I played a VH4, very briefly, and liked what I heard (it was running through a Mesa Standard Recto 4x12).

I'm also possibly getting a new guitar (PRS Custom 22 or Les Paul Custom). I may be swapping in a Duncan JB, Lindy Fralin humbucker, or Bareknuckle into the bridge of either.

As far as clean tones go, I like a nice, warm, enveloping tone. Something that surrounds you and is harmonically rich, with a little bit of glassyness on top. I love the clean tones of a Vox AC-30 and a Bogner Shiva EL-34 Reverb.

For low to mid gain, I like something that has a good deal of upper mid harmonics and responds well to the guitar's volume control. I HATE crunch. I really do. I prefer a darker, mellow tone with a hint of sparkle on the top end. But, no crunch. For some examples, I like the tone of any Percy Hill song (mix of smooth jazz, funk, rock, and jam band), Moe. (jam band, rock), and some of the tones from Porcupine Tree (although, they use Bad Cat). David Gilmore's lead tone is fantastic as well. I need something that produces nice harmonic overtones during a note's decay.

For high gain, I like something that's rough around the edges; something with a pleasant top-end, a raw mid-range, and a tight, focused bottom. But all of that with a mean chainsaw/motorcycle like growl. I don't really like overly saturated tones but sometimes I like to mess around with them.

I'm not really a super high gain player. I really like the tone that Adam Jones has. Killswitch Engage has some good tones, but they can be a little too crunchy sometimes and I didn't like the Framus amp I used to have and I'm not willing to buy an SLO. A Perfect Circle has some good sounds too, but my style isn't as hi-fi as their stuff.

I like my Hot Cat, but I don't think I want to use a Class A amp anymore.

The Bogner XTC has some good tones, but it's too complicated of an amp for me. The more options I have available, soundwise, the more time I spend messing around with everything trying to search for a specific sound.

So, because there are literally ZERO stores which stock a VH4 or Herbert and I'll be buying one sight-unseen. This means I won't be able to play it before hand to see if I like it.

Ideally I'd be able to A/B both amps back to back to compare. But, I can't.

Any suggestions or some good, detailed descriptions of each amp's character? I've listened to clips, but they don't really give an accurate representation of how the amp will sound in person.

The simplicity of the Einstien and it's more vintage-sounding character interests me, but I also need to have a modern rhythm sound on tap and the tightness that goes with it.

I think you should try an Einstein. Simple 2 channel amp and incredible sound of it's own, more vintage. Which are the best sounding amps in guitar history? They all had one thing in common, nothing cute, all one or two channel amps. I don't think anything over two channels can compare with one or two channel amps and never will. Think of TrainWreck and Dumble all simple and incredible amps. I've been told I'm wrong but I put the Einstein up there (at least mine) with the best amps ever made.

The thing is very few know the little tricks to great tube amps such as the Einstein, they think that all they should use for volume is the master and volume knobs and there's alot more you could use in such an amp. At times when I want a class A type sound, I use the MIDDLE for my volume control. I set everything to 7 o' clock and set volume to 3:00, master to 12:00 and use the mid and bass for volume. Thousand tricks or ways to tweak a great tube amp but very few do it. You just can't go wrong with the Einstein specially if you know how to play.

Another thing, don't ever buy an amp without playing it first that's insane. Even if you get to play it it takes a few days to get to know the amp. I didn't buy the Einstein until I played it for a week straight and learned it well.

 

[RedB4Black]

Another thing, don't ever buy an amp without playing it first that's insane.

I do it all the time - this year alone I've bought a VHT UL, D120, D60 and a Sig X, a Rivera K-Tre, a Diezel Einstein, an ENGL SE, an EVH 5150 III, a Mesa Roadster, a Mesa Single Rectifier, a Line 6 HD147, and a Splawn Nitro. I ordered the Nitro and the Sig X new, however, if you buy used at a fair price, you're not really risking much. You can usually buy and resell without losing more than $50 to $100 bucks if anything at all. I've even made a few bucks on some amps. Nothing really compares to getting to use the amp with all your own gear in your own house or with a band without a salesperson bothering you. I would gladly pay $100 to have an amp to try for several weeks/months to see if I really liked it rather than just playing it at the store. Most store where I live don't stock the amps I'm interested in anyway.

to the OP - you can definately get what you are looking for with an Einstein. I loved mine but I sold it because I could pretty much cover the tones I liked with my Herbert. BTW, I bought a mint 1 year old Einstein for $2,200 shipped, sold for $2,250 shipped. Net cost to me = $0.

 

[FourT6and2]

Another thing, don't ever buy an amp without playing it first that's insane.

I do it all the time - this year alone I've bought a VHT UL, D120, D60 and a Sig X, a Rivera K-Tre, a Diezel Einstein, an ENGL SE, an EVH 5150 III, a Mesa Roadster, a Mesa Single Rectifier, a Line 6 HD147, and a Splawn Nitro. I ordered the Nitro and the Sig X new, however, if you buy used at a fair price, you're not really risking much. You can usually buy and resell without losing more than $50 to $100 bucks if anything at all. I've even made a few bucks on some amps. Nothing really compares to getting to use the amp with all your own gear in your own house or with a band without a salesperson bothering you. I would gladly pay $100 to have an amp to try for several weeks/months to see if I really liked it rather than just playing it at the store. Most store where I live don't stock the amps I'm interested in anyway.

to the OP - you can definately get what you are looking for with an Einstein. I loved mine but I sold it because I could pretty much cover the tones I liked with my Herbert. BTW, I bought a mint 1 year old Einstein for $2,200 shipped, sold for $2,250 shipped. Net cost to me = $0.

Can you compare the Herbert, Einstein, and K-Tre for me? I'd appreciate your input. I'm also looking into a Bogner Shiva EL-34 Reverb.

 

[FriedChickenBandit]

Another thing, don't ever buy an amp without playing it first that's insane.

I do it all the time - this year alone I've bought a VHT UL, D120, D60 and a Sig X, a Rivera K-Tre, a Diezel Einstein, an ENGL SE, an EVH 5150 III, a Mesa Roadster, a Mesa Single Rectifier, a Line 6 HD147, and a Splawn Nitro. I ordered the Nitro and the Sig X new, however, if you buy used at a fair price, you're not really risking much. You can usually buy and resell without losing more than $50 to $100 bucks if anything at all. I've even made a few bucks on some amps. Nothing really compares to getting to use the amp with all your own gear in your own house or with a band without a salesperson bothering you. I would gladly pay $100 to have an amp to try for several weeks/months to see if I really liked it rather than just playing it at the store. Most store where I live don't stock the amps I'm interested in anyway.

to the OP - you can definately get what you are looking for with an Einstein. I loved mine but I sold it because I could pretty much cover the tones I liked with my Herbert. BTW, I bought a mint 1 year old Einstein for $2,200 shipped, sold for $2,250 shipped. Net cost to me = $0.

Holy shit, you have to be kidding. Man you have some balls, the only thing i bought without ever trying was a Tri-Axis which I loved but it wasn't being used. I had a Roadster and sold it, it got old after a few weeks.

I agree it's best to test things at home for a few days, specially amps they need a few days.

Any chance you'll try a Modena 90 down the road?

 

[RedB4Black]

Can you compare the Herbert, Einstein, and K-Tre for me? I'd appreciate your input. I'm also looking into a Bogner Shiva EL-34 Reverb.

When I had the Einstein, I was pretty much just dialing it in to sound like to tones I liked on my Herbert. I felt the Einstein was like channels 1 and 2 of the Herbert without a mid-cut. Using a boost on channel 2 could get you a pretty heavy tone as well. The Einstein does seem less modern and looser but the boost will tighten it up as well. If you mainly play metal, I'd go for a Herbert otherwise, an Einstein should suit you (it can definately get those Adam Jones tones which I'm guessing you like). I felt the Herbert covers the Einstein tones for the most part and then gives you the brutal metal stuff on channel 3 plus the mid-cut and midi switching.

I'd say the K-Tre is like a mix of an Uberschall and a VHT Ultra-lead (I've owned both of these amps too). It has the big thick low-end of the Uber, just as much gain/saturation without the loose/flubby low-end. It is alot tighter leaning towards the Ultra-lead. Not as tight as an Ultra-lead, but much tighter than the Uberschall/Rectos of the world. It has more clarity to the gain compared to the Uberschall while remaining being capable of a lot of saturation - not like the more dry and almost sterile sounding Ultra-lead. It can be a little tricky to dial in at first, but once you find the sound it is pretty killer. Basically, it borrows from the best parts of the Uberschall and the Ultra-lead. It is a very loud amp but you can attenuate it by using the loop level controls. As far as build quality. It's pretty much military grade components. It is the only amp that I've owned that is on par with my Diezel Herbert. Considering the build quality, it amazes me how little these amps sell for (especially compared to an Uberschall).

 

[RedB4Black]

Any chance you'll try a Modena 90 down the road?

Already have...

It's a nice amp but I prefer my Herbert by a long-shot.

 

[FourT6and2]

Can you compare the Herbert, Einstein, and K-Tre for me? I'd appreciate your input. I'm also looking into a Bogner Shiva EL-34 Reverb.

When I had the Einstein, I was pretty much just dialing it in to sound like to tones I liked on my Herbert. I felt the Einstein was like channels 1 and 2 of the Herbert without a mid-cut. Using a boost on channel 2 could get you a pretty heavy tone as well. The Einstein does seem less modern and looser but the boost will tighten it up as well. If you mainly play metal, I'd go for a Herbert otherwise, an Einstein should suit you (it can definately get those Adam Jones tones which I'm guessing you like). I felt the Herbert covers the Einstein tones for the most part and then gives you the brutal metal stuff on channel 3 plus the mid-cut and midi switching.

I'd say the K-Tre is like a mix of an Uberschall and a VHT Ultra-lead (I've owned both of these amps too). It has the big thick low-end of the Uber, just as much gain/saturation without the loose/flubby low-end. It is alot tighter leaning towards the Ultra-lead. Not as tight as an Ultra-lead, but much tighter than the Uberschall/Rectos of the world. It has more clarity to the gain compared to the Uberschall while remaining being capable of a lot of saturation - not like the more dry and almost sterile sounding Ultra-lead. It can be a little tricky to dial in at first, but once you find the sound it is pretty killer. Basically, it borrows from the best parts of the Uberschall and the Ultra-lead. It is a very loud amp but you can attenuate it by using the loop level controls. As far as build quality. It's pretty much military grade components. It is the only amp that I've owned that is on par with my Diezel Herbert. Considering the build quality, it amazes me how little these amps sell for (especially compared to an Uberschall).

Thanks!

I used to own an Uberschall and I really liked it. I usually had it dialed in with a lot of mids and presence, giving it a more thrash-like, raw sound; rather than thundering low-end and scooped mids. I also used it with a THD open-back 2x12 with CL-80's. It sounded really nice.

I've never played an Ultra Lead, though. So, I have no point of reference. But, I did think the Uberschall was a tad too squishy for me.

I might look into getting a K-Tre as well. It comes with that awesome MIDI pedal too, right?

It's just so hard right now because there are a few amps I really want to own: Diezel, Bogner Shiva, AC-30, K-Tre, and I really need a new guitar (I bought a crappy Jackson for $100 to tide me over for the time being).

I used to have a nice setup (Uberschall and PRS Custom 22). But, I sold it all and switched over to acoustic only. But, years later, I have that itch to peel the paint off the walls again...and I have the money now.

But, I can't justify buying two or three amps and a new guitar. I have a Hot Cat right now, that I don't use that much. I want to keep it, I think. But, if someone were interested in buying it, I think I'd have the balls to pick up a Diezel and a new guitar.

 

[RedB4Black]

^if you are looking to peel the paint off walls, then go for the Herbert.

If you are considering the K-Tre (which is not MIDI switchable BTW - If I recall it's just the channel, loop and boost on the footswitch), an alternative I like more is the Splawn Nitro. I got to play one for about 20 minutes or so at an ampfest but it was enough to make me want one (I have one on order). Everyone there who played it considered it to be like a "Super Uberschall".

 

[FourT6and2]

^if you are looking to peel the paint off walls, then go for the Herbert.

If you are considering the K-Tre (which is not MIDI switchable BTW - If I recall it's just the channel, loop and boost on the footswitch), an alternative I like more is the Splawn Nitro. I got to play one for about 20 minutes or so at an ampfest but it was enough to make me want one (I have one on order). Everyone there who played it considered it to be like a "Super Uberschall".

You're really not helping my bank account, here.

 

[FriedChickenBandit]

Any chance you'll try a Modena 90 down the road?

Already have...

It's a nice amp but I prefer my Herbert by a long-shot.

You know, I just can't find anything that touches the Einstein. The Modena sounds like the Einstein and is very similar but it's just a little too modern for me. It's very close to the Einstein at least the way I set mine up. I keep hearing how some people boost an Einstein for more gain or more "brutal" (whatever that means) but on Channel2 and Mode2 of the Einstein you'd have to show me WHO is playing these amps that they need more gain out of it. That's insane since I don't go more than 2:00 on the gain even though it's all clean gain, just a little compressed which is understandable.

Nice gear man.

 

[RedB4Black]

You know, I just can't find anything that touches the Einstein. The Modena sounds like the Einstein and is very similar but it's just a little too modern for me. It's very close to the Einstein at least the way I set mine up. I keep hearing how some people boost an Einstein for more gain or more "brutal" (whatever that means) but on Channel2 and Mode2 of the Einstein you'd have to show me WHO is playing these amps that they need more gain out of it. That's insane since I don't go more than 2:00 on the gain even though it's all clean gain, just a little compressed which is understandable.

Nice gear man.

It's not my gear, other than the guitar I'm playing, though I wish it was . That was at the ampfest we had in Austin back in November.

When people use the boost it's not really to add gain. I use one from time to time to change the feel a little. When you boost it I generally dial the gain back to about 9:00. I thought it was crazy too, but don't knock it till you try it.

 

[synchu]

You know, I just can't find anything that touches the Einstein. The Modena sounds like the Einstein and is very similar but it's just a little too modern for me. It's very close to the Einstein at least the way I set mine up. I keep hearing how some people boost an Einstein for more gain or more "brutal" (whatever that means) but on Channel2 and Mode2 of the Einstein you'd have to show me WHO is playing these amps that they need more gain out of it. That's insane since I don't go more than 2:00 on the gain even though it's all clean gain, just a little compressed which is understandable.

Nice gear man.

I totally agree. I play quite heavy stuff here (sometimes close to "modern" death metal or however it is spelled these days ) and the Gain knob on my Einstein doesn't go past 12:00 or 1:00 at most. It is just way too much gain in there (not that I am complaining , though I didn't believe that I would say it someday, coming from Marshall "push it to the twelve" land and a Mark IV).

 

[bhuether]

I live near Boston, MA and own VH4S and Einstein. Right now I prefer the Einstein (well before it stopped working - well on my way to getting it fixed...). I find it has a much more articulate tone. Way better blues tone than VH4S and it has all the gain you would ever need as well. Very nice clean too. You can hear some recordings I made with Einstein at my site (http://www.guitar-dreams.com/mysongs.php). The song 'Alien Quest' was recorded with Einstein.

later,

brian

 

[FriedChickenBandit]

You know, I just can't find anything that touches the Einstein. The Modena sounds like the Einstein and is very similar but it's just a little too modern for me. It's very close to the Einstein at least the way I set mine up. I keep hearing how some people boost an Einstein for more gain or more "brutal" (whatever that means) but on Channel2 and Mode2 of the Einstein you'd have to show me WHO is playing these amps that they need more gain out of it. That's insane since I don't go more than 2:00 on the gain even though it's all clean gain, just a little compressed which is understandable.

Nice gear man.

I totally agree. I play quite heavy stuff here (sometimes close to "modern" death metal or however it is spelled these days ) and the Gain knob on my Einstein doesn't go past 12:00 or 1:00 at most. It is just way too much gain in there (not that I am complaining , though I didn't believe that I would say it someday, coming from Marshall "push it to the twelve" land and a Mark IV).

And also, I can't use any stomp boxes with the Einstein at all, they just robb me of the Einstein killer tone. I like it dry with a gmajor and very little delay/chorus/reverb. I like to go to 3:00 sometimes and crank a little louder just to feel it and what it can do but it's usuaaly 1:00 to 2:00 for me and always Mode2. I have yet try Mode3 at all why? Mode2 is perfect, I don't want anything else.