VH4 vs. Herbert

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Helius

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First of all: I'm sorry that there's another topic about the most asked question in this forum, but I really need some help.
In the near future I need a new amp for my studio. It should be versatile but it will be mainly used for tracking distored rhythm sounds. So i narrowed it down to the VH4 and the Herbert. When i say distored rhythm I think of bands like Alice In Chains, Creed, Stonesour, Disturbed, Rob Zombie and so on... I'm talking about that huge rhythm sound of the named bands. I know that most bands use several amps to get that huge wall of sound, but then again I'm looking for a good starting point. The amp won't be played live so it's really only about recording.
In the recent past I demoed both amps but, I can't decide which on I like more. They really have a different voicing but I liked both. I don't need that fast metal sound of Messugha and so on...
So maybe anyone on this forum has some good experience with tracking both amps and can give me some feedback.
 
Vh4. I know I'm gonna catch flak for this, but it's more versatile. It's one of the best amps to have in the studio. I'd save up and get a saggy amp to mix with it to achieve your tonal goals though. AIC and the like are super saggy while diezel is super tight. No one amp will do it all in the studio. One may work for a ton of bands but versatility is important. Vh4 tracks better for me than the herbie in general.

-John
 
At gearslutz some people already wrote that the VH4 tracks better while others say, that Herbert is the one to beat.
That's why I am so confused.
Do you speak from personal experience? What kind of saggy amp are you thinking of? Bogner?
 
Everyone hears things differently. This makes deciding on an amp, soley based on what other think, a tricky thing to do. It is good to hear or read other opinions, but in the long run, it is your personal decision that means the most.

I have owned both amps. I do not play metal, but was easily able to obtain any sound I desired with either amp, from 1940's jazz through much heavier tones for modern playing. I felt that the VH4 was a tad tighter feeling then the Herbert, but with all that wattage available in either amp, if you are not going to open up the volume to concert levels, both amps are going to feel tight.

Actually the Schmidt would be terrific in a studio situation. If you are the only person using either the Herbert or the VH4, then whichever amp feels the best to you and offers the tones you desire, that is the amp to go with. If you are going to be recording others in the studio, remember that some players may find the VH4 to be too exacting if they have a less then clean style, no matter what type of music they play.

While similar to a point, the Herbert at 180 watts, will have the most bass thrust, due to the larger trannies and higher wattage, which is considerably more then a VH4 at 120 watts. The +/- mid shift dial will help fine tune a given tonal setting differently then the VH4 will, based on it's dial setup. The VH4 does have the ability to overdrive the power tubes using the global volume control, which the Herbert does not offer.

It might take you a bit more time to think out your personal situation before deciding on which amp will best suit your intended usage. If you could find a store which would rent you both amps to test record prior to buying, this might help you make a more informed decision.
 
Coming from the guy who owns both...

It really depends on your situation. They both track great! I tracked all my records with the Herbert. Did my last one with both. Loved the combo. Again, it depends on what you are really after. Herbert can do the rock tones as well as the chugga chugga stuff. As can the VH4. As you know the voicing is a little different BUT still similar...they both have the Diezel tone.

I use the VH4 in the studio a bit more due to its versatility. BUT Herbert is a special animal. I feel your pain in the decision process!!!

and as for an amp to blend with either, look into maybe a Splawn or something along those lines. Blends nicely with the Diezels & has just enuff sag. And is way cheaper than a Bogner . ( go ahead V...enter the ring here....)
 
VH4, search for James Lugo's comments about when he brought one into his studio... Hands down, absolute winner. Even though I love the Herbert.

Peace,
V.
 
I owned both amps as well.....not at the same time though.
Looking back on it.....me personally I would get another VH4 over the Herbert.
I just like how the VH4 sounds over the Herbert. Personal tastes.
Dont get me wrong....the Herbert is a EXCELLENT AMP that very versatile.
Just like the Voicing of the VH4 better. :thumbsup:
 
Helius":2bd9q87i said:
At gearslutz some people already wrote that the VH4 tracks better while others say, that Herbert is the one to beat.
That's why I am so confused.
Do you speak from personal experience? What kind of saggy amp are you thinking of? Bogner?
Click to expand...

Yes, I speak from personal experience. If you're tracking certain types of bands the Herbert can be a godsend to have. Honestly from a studio owner's point of view the vh4 makes more sense. It's not that the Herbert can't do other tones and do them well. I just think the vh4 has more versatility. Ask James Lugo. He's got a studio with far more experience than I do and his view is the same as mine. The vh4 works on everything from John Fogerty and Bruce Springsteen to Metallica and Tool. I'm not saying the Herbert isn't versatile. It really is. I just think as a studio owner the vh4 is more of a swiss army knife that can nail a ton of tones you'll need. As for something with sag? Bogner XTC comes to mind, but as Paulie suggested splawns work too. So do Oranges. It depends what you're looking for. You could also look at the Diezel Schmidt. There are tons of other amps out there.
 
The Herbert is more versatile. Better cleans, Ch 2 covers both ch2&3 of the VH4, and Ch3 on the Herbert is better for metal than Ch4 on the VH4 to me. The way you can vary the tone with the mid cut feature in the Herbert puts it in a class of it's own.

I was not impressed with the VH4 I played, especially when compared to my Herbert sitting next to it.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. Yesterday I read an article about the latest Creed record (Full Circle). In my opinion they have a really huge sound. Mark Tremonti said in the interview that he used an Herbert for the heavier parts because it sounds so good.
 
Yes it is Reza. I´ve got 8 switchable sounds (or call it voicings).
 
Rezamatix":1tp7zhug said:
RJF":1tp7zhug said:
The Herbert is more versatile. Better cleans, Ch 2 covers both ch2&3 of the VH4, and Ch3 on the Herbert is better for metal than Ch4 on the VH4 to me. The way you can vary the tone with the mid cut feature in the Herbert puts it in a class of it's own.

I was not impressed with the VH4 I played, especially when compared to my Herbert sitting next to it.
Click to expand...
It's more versatile? With one less channel? I don't think so, I have a vh4 with 4 channels...that automatically gives me more options..

Either way the OP can not go wrong.
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I see your 4 different sounds, and match it with four different sounds (don't forget CH2 on the Herbert has a +/- switch that covers your CH2 &3), and I have a mid cut that splits every one of those sounds for a potential drastic change in the way those sounds are.

Owned........... :D
 
Facepalm :aww:

It's not about what "we" own as "amp" in the Herbert and VH4 department, it's about what the OP asked as to which is more versatile. Talking with cats who own decent commercial studios who've had to make the choice, the VH4 is the preference amongst all of them. The Herbert is an incredible kickass machine, and ya, I wanna get one and keep on in my personal arsenal (or that tasty preamp that's being discussed, ahem...), but Swiss Army applications, the VH4 is the chosen one. Neither is better or worse - the application here is 'studio' and 'studio' means versatility and consistency.

This battle will always go on...and on... But the fact is, 2 different amps, almost too similar in many ways to make one better than the other - they're equal, really. Just depends what application is needing satisfying.

Peace,
V.
 
Ventura":2fbz619a said:
Facepalm :aww:

It's not about what "we" own as "amp" in the Herbert and VH4 department, it's about what the OP asked as to which is more versatile. Talking with cats who own decent commercial studios who've had to make the choice, the VH4 is the preference amongst all of them. The Herbert is an incredible kickass machine, and ya, I wanna get one and keep on in my personal arsenal (or that tasty preamp that's being discussed, ahem...), but Swiss Army applications, the VH4 is the chosen one. Neither is better or worse - the application here is 'studio' and 'studio' means versatility and consistency.

This battle will always go on...and on... But the fact is, 2 different amps, almost too similar in many ways to make one better than the other - they're equal, really. Just depends what application is needing satisfying.

Peace,
V.
Click to expand...

+1
Thanks for your input V. This is exactly what I was trying to get across.
 
PaulyPanacea":1wrvvs4t said:
V to the rescue!!! :cheers:
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Aaaaaaaaaaw, shucks guys... :lol: :LOL:

Hell, I just speak from the heart (and head, and ears, and fingers, and shaking walls, and recordings, and moving air, and thunder, and....) :cheers2:

Peace Y'All...
V. :rawk:
 
Just to play devils advocate... :D

I'd actually go with the Herbert for versatility in the power amp (3 duets of swappable power tubes vs 2), more clean headroom, and a bigger bottom end...I haven't seen a better head power amp. Sure it hasn't got the VH4 3rd channel which all the studios use ( which is all I'd want a VH4 for actually), but what about this scenario...

Add a Mako MAK4 for less than 25% of the Diezel, and you arguably have a better sounding rig with more versatility, with 7 channels (2 cleans, 2 crunches, 3 different brutal channels of varying feels.) You can switch between preamps using the loop switch on the front panel of the Herbert, or with a footswitch, all you need is a Lehle P-Split or similar to split the signal transparently before the preamps..

You might not be able to afford the 2 amps, but maybe you can squeeze another grand out, if so that's a pretty cool option (one I have taken myself, just for full disclosure).

Not trying to stir up anything, but I do think that's a valid 3rd option if you are after versatility. :)

@ the OP: the Herbert has a gorgeous clean sound and Ch2 is pretty special too...really only the VH4 3rd channel that wins with tightness, so try and listen to that to see if you must have it. If you do and can definitely only afford 1 amp ever, I'd take the VH4.

Also.....the Diezel preamp to come this year should have the VH4 3rd CH in it, and if so I will likely pick one up myself. But A. it's not out yet, and B. it's probably going to be expensive. :cry:
 
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