VHT UL possible to "jump" the loop for added gain?

[xiwiwix]

I was wondering if it was possible to "jump" the loop for added gain in my UL? Would it have to be in Series or Parallel?

I run my TOV with the loop "jumped," which allows me to dial back my gain knob a bit. I prefer the "gain" tone that way.

Roland

 

[stratotone]

Series

 

[xiwiwix]

Wow I got a reply back from Fryette in no time, didn't expect that. Here's what I got:

************************************************************************************************************************
Thank you for contacting FRYETTE AMPLIFICATION support.



On a 2004 model, the loop is internally jumped when the RETURN jack has nothing plugged into it. There will be a small amount of boost when used this way if you turn the level knob practically all the way up and activate the loop IN rear panel switch or EFFECTS footswitch function.



Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
************************************************************************************************************************

 

[xiwiwix]

Series

Thank you!

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

 

[xiwiwix]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

It's gives it a tad more hair.

What pre's are you running?

I have two extra EH 12ax7eh Russian pre's, would those be good any where? I really don't care if the clean gets more gain, I think it could use it (for my style of music anyway), I just want a tad bit more more saturation. I'm almost 100% happy.

doh I haven't checked to see what's in it yet.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

It's gives it a tad more hair.

What pre's are you running?

I have two extra EH 12ax7eh Russian pre's, would those be good any where? I really don't care if the clean gets more gain, I think it could use it (for my style of music anyway), I just want a tad bit more more saturation. I'm almost 100% happy.

doh I haven't checked to see what's in it yet.

All Ruby 12AX7C5HG+ in the pre... and SED KT88s in the power. For the saturation, the only thing I've found to work is a pedal. TS808 or similar upfront. It still won't sound like an Engl SE... but more in that direction. The UL also sounds killer with Greenback 25W speakers... even for the heavy modern stuff... if you haven't tried that pairing yet.

 

[xiwiwix]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

It's gives it a tad more hair.

What pre's are you running?

I have two extra EH 12ax7eh Russian pre's, would those be good any where? I really don't care if the clean gets more gain, I think it could use it (for my style of music anyway), I just want a tad bit more more saturation. I'm almost 100% happy.

doh I haven't checked to see what's in it yet.

All Ruby 12AX7C5HG+ in the pre... and SED KT88s in the power. For the saturation, the only thing I've found to work is a pedal. TS808 or similar upfront. It still won't sound like an Engl SE... but more in that direction. The UL also sounds killer with Greenback 25W speakers... even for the heavy modern stuff... if you haven't tried that pairing yet.

Do you mean RUBY 12AX7AC5HG+? Because I can't find 12AX7C5HG+. <- not trying to be a douche brutha, I just couldn't find them.

In the past, I've stayed away from Greenback's because I didn't like them with the Powerball. And I think I've gotten so comfortable with v30's, everything else just sounds dark to me. Perhaps I should give them a shot.

I have a TS9 but it makes the clean channel sound like shit (the strings sound Plunky instead of plucky like with a SD1). I just leave the clean boost on all the time as I hate tap dancing. I'm guessing it's the mid spike in the TS9. I was thinking boosting with a Metal Zone. ala C.C.



I've almost got it to where I want it. Man this beast is giving me so much trouble. But I finally got it to where the speakers are pumping with every palm mute, it's very crunchy, I got rid of as much of the mids I could with it not sounding "scooped" (no mid hump), and I think I've got the gain setting maxed without it getting muddy/mushy.

You can't dime the gain on a UL ch3 with it not sounding like mush. IMO

The pres in the v1 and v2 were very bright, so they had to go. I replaced them with EH12ax7, I had to completely re do all the settings but it got rid of the twangy brightness it had.

It's coming together well, its that it's so versatile, and I'm not used to amp with bells and whistles anymore. It's been 2-3 years since I had an amp with button & switchs everywhere. lol

 

[apophis]

After a lot of tube swapping i found the factory recommended toobz to be best...
v1 tung sol ri,chinese in the rest...only change is that i use a NOS mullard 12at7in the driver stage...sovtek kt88 for power....keeley sd1 as a clean boost

 

[sjk]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

It's gives it a tad more hair.

What pre's are you running?

I have two extra EH 12ax7eh Russian pre's, would those be good any where? I really don't care if the clean gets more gain, I think it could use it (for my style of music anyway), I just want a tad bit more more saturation. I'm almost 100% happy.

doh I haven't checked to see what's in it yet.

All Ruby 12AX7C5HG+ in the pre... and SED KT88s in the power. For the saturation, the only thing I've found to work is a pedal. TS808 or similar upfront. It still won't sound like an Engl SE... but more in that direction. The UL also sounds killer with Greenback 25W speakers... even for the heavy modern stuff... if you haven't tried that pairing yet.

Do you mean RUBY 12AX7AC5HG+? Because I can't find 12AX7C5HG+. <- not trying to be a douche brutha, I just couldn't find them.

In the past, I've stayed away from Greenback's because I didn't like them with the Powerball. And I think I've gotten so comfortable with v30's, everything else just sounds dark to me. Perhaps I should give them a shot.

I have a TS9 but it makes the clean channel sound like shit (the strings sound Plunky instead of plucky like with a SD1). I just leave the clean boost on all the time as I hate tap dancing. I'm guessing it's the mid spike in the TS9. I was thinking boosting with a Metal Zone. ala C.C.



I've almost got it to where I want it. Man this beast is giving me so much trouble. But I finally got it to where the speakers are pumping with every palm mute, it's very crunchy, I got rid of as much of the mids I could with it not sounding "scooped" (no mid hump), and I think I've got the gain setting maxed without it getting muddy/mushy.

You can't dime the gain on a UL ch3 with it not sounding like mush. IMO

The pres in the v1 and v2 were very bright, so they had to go. I replaced them with EH12ax7, I had to completely re do all the settings but it got rid of the twangy brightness it had.

It's coming together well, its that it's so versatile, and I'm not used to amp with bells and whistles anymore. It's been 2-3 years since I had an amp with button & switchs everywhere. lol

Interesting that you are having such a tough time dialing it in. Having the same problem with mine. This one is a 2003 and the one I just got rid of recently was a 2004. Dialing in the 2004 was easy, it was hard to get a bad tone. This one has way more mids, almost to the point of being annoying and hard on the ears. Hard to dial out and if you get too much treble dialed in it gets very harsh, and it is a fine line between having enough and too much/harsh. Wonder if they made some revisions around this time frame? I'm struggling with it as it seems you are. Got it from Guitar Center used and half tempted to take it back. Should of never got rid of my original one a back in late June. So goes the game of professional amp whoring

 

[xiwiwix]

Interesting that you are having such a tough time dialing it in. Having the same problem with mine. This one is a 2003 and the one I just got rid of recently was a 2004. Dialing in the 2004 was easy, it was hard to get a bad tone. This one has way more mids, almost to the point of being annoying and hard on the ears. Hard to dial out and if you get too much treble dialed in it gets very harsh, and it is a fine line between having enough and too much/harsh. Wonder if they made some revisions around this time frame? I'm struggling with it as it seems you are. Got it from Guitar Center used and half tempted to take it back. Should of never got rid of my original one a back in late June. So goes the game of professional amp whoring

BOLD
Yes, that's what happening here. Highs are killing my ears , and the mids are... there's just so much of them. I'm having a hard time finding a blance. Damn my ears still feel fatigued, with a slight ring... I was jamming the 's' hit out of the amp though. I feel like the tone is almost there. I'm gonng let my ears rest a little more and then I'll go back and see where I left off. I hope it doesn't sound dark, & I found the tone I've been looking for.

ITALIC
My PowTran is dated Nov 2003, the S# is dated 2004. So I'm guessing mine is an early '04.

Let me know how it goes with you. I have a feeling that it might be the power tubes in it, Sovtek KT88 that are giving me the problems. What kind of tubes are yours?


EDIT: What I just found out about the tubes that are in the UL:

http://www.tubedepot.com/so-kt88.html

Having great hi-end and lush mids - the Sovtek KT88 was designed to offer the highest output power and the most reliable - linear performance available in a KT88. The low-end is a bit muffled - but not flabby. The unique tri-alloy plate structure of the Sovtek KT88 yields higher minimum plate current and higher transconductance while improving heat dissipation and reducing tube warm-up time.

I knew it. Lush mids? Or too damn much? Muffled low end? Or shitty?

Seems like I've been fighting the power tubes after all.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

It works the same way on my 2012 UL if I run a patch cable in the loop in series mode and turn up the loop level knob all the way.

It's gives it a tad more hair.

What pre's are you running?

I have two extra EH 12ax7eh Russian pre's, would those be good any where? I really don't care if the clean gets more gain, I think it could use it (for my style of music anyway), I just want a tad bit more more saturation. I'm almost 100% happy.

doh I haven't checked to see what's in it yet.

All Ruby 12AX7C5HG+ in the pre... and SED KT88s in the power. For the saturation, the only thing I've found to work is a pedal. TS808 or similar upfront. It still won't sound like an Engl SE... but more in that direction. The UL also sounds killer with Greenback 25W speakers... even for the heavy modern stuff... if you haven't tried that pairing yet.

Do you mean RUBY 12AX7AC5HG+? Because I can't find 12AX7C5HG+. <- not trying to be a douche brutha, I just couldn't find them.

In the past, I've stayed away from Greenback's because I didn't like them with the Powerball. And I think I've gotten so comfortable with v30's, everything else just sounds dark to me. Perhaps I should give them a shot.

I have a TS9 but it makes the clean channel sound like shit (the strings sound Plunky instead of plucky like with a SD1). I just leave the clean boost on all the time as I hate tap dancing. I'm guessing it's the mid spike in the TS9. I was thinking boosting with a Metal Zone. ala C.C.



I've almost got it to where I want it. Man this beast is giving me so much trouble. But I finally got it to where the speakers are pumping with every palm mute, it's very crunchy, I got rid of as much of the mids I could with it not sounding "scooped" (no mid hump), and I think I've got the gain setting maxed without it getting muddy/mushy.

You can't dime the gain on a UL ch3 with it not sounding like mush. IMO

The pres in the v1 and v2 were very bright, so they had to go. I replaced them with EH12ax7, I had to completely re do all the settings but it got rid of the twangy brightness it had.

It's coming together well, its that it's so versatile, and I'm not used to amp with bells and whistles anymore. It's been 2-3 years since I had an amp with button & switchs everywhere. lol

Yep... those are the ones.

There is definitely a saturation point with the gain pot on channel 3... right around 2:30-3:00 is doesn't add... but takes away from the sound. The cool thing about the UL/CLX is that all the little switches and buttons actually do something and change the sound unlike many other amps.

 

[Greazygeo]

Sovtek KT88's are great in the UL....EH's are very bright preamp tubes, I'd ditch those.. For gain and saturation run all Chinese 12ax7b's.

V30's are the dullest speakers I've ever tried. Very little lows and highs...probably where all your extra midrange is coming from.

I love GB speakers, but not with the UL. CL80's worked best for me.

 

[xiwiwix]

Yep... those are the ones.

There is definitely a saturation point with the gain pot on channel 3... right around 2:30-3:00 is doesn't add... but takes away from the sound. The cool thing about the UL/CLX is that all the little switches and buttons actually do something and change the sound unlike many other amps.

I approve this statment.

I have every drop of gain (usable gain) that can come out of this beast maxed out, and it's almost there. I don't think I'm going to be able to get it there with pre tubes because after a couple pre swaps nada really helped the gain, though the amps tone changed a lot. Perhaps more than many of the amps I've owned. Though, that really helped tame the top end shrill. I gotta figure out which clean boost I'm gonna go with. I don't think this TS9 is gonna work out, I don't like what it does to the clean tone.

 

[xiwiwix]

Sovtek KT88's are great in the UL....EH's are very bright preamp tubes, I'd ditch those.. For gain and saturation run all Chinese 12ax7b's.

V30's are the dullest speakers I've ever tried. Very little lows and highs...probably where all your extra midrange is coming from.

I love GB speakers, but not with the UL. CL80's worked best for me.

Hmm... the EH's darkend up the amp, they tamed the top end shrill I was getting (V1 and V2). When I powered it on, that's the first thing I noticed. Perhaps the original tubes a crap?

There was a Sovtek 12ax7wa in V1 I switch out with EH like this --->

(V1 and V2) both have those

Ruby 12ax7 that looked like this ---> http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/SellMe/t-ruby-7025.jpg in v2

I also switch'd out the DRIVER TUBE which was a JJ 81 with a USA 12AT7 Fender Orange Label that looks like this --->

Damn I wish my I hadn't gotten rid of my 9th Gen Ruby's. I'm gonna look to see what other pre's I have laying around. I have a bunch of JJ's, would you recommend the JJ's George? What do you think about the DRIVER TUBE I put in compared to the DRIVER TUBE it had?

I like the high end midrange clarity of the v30's, but then again I do really think I've become bias since I've used them soooo long. I think the P50E's have more high end and a better bottom, I also prefer those with the UL over the V30's. I just don't have any. I would like to do One V30 and one EVM12L. I think that would be the beez tits.

 

[apophis]

Its the driver tube the one that is supposed to be a 12at7, not the phase inverter....and I did not notice you were using v30.....that is most probably your problem! Try eminence speakers with fryette amps for a better match

 

[xiwiwix]

Its the driver tube the one that is supposed to be a 12at7, not the phase inverter....and I did not notice you were using v30.....that is most probably your problem! Try eminence speakers with fryette amps for a better match

FIXED

That's what I meant. V6, the last one.

I swap't out the the 81 for the 12at7.

I don't remember what the PI. I'll check in a bit.


V30's:

I'm using the 2x12 from my Mesa cab/combo, and when I use it with the Mesa I don't have that problem. It's clear, dark with out the "blanket over the cab" fx. Pure Mesa goodness.

I can't recall 100%, but I'm almost sure I never used any of my other UL's or CLX with V30's in the past. I only used my FB 4x12's I used to have. So prehaps... I'm gonna have to take the head to my friends apt, the guy I sold my last two VHT FB 4x12 cabs to and find out forsure. ...so perhaps the VHT UL hate's V30's?

BUT keep in my mind once I dropped the EH's in it, alot of that top end harshness went away.

I'm almost their where I want to be tone wise, but I need to figure out where/what in my tone chain (from power cable to guitar cable) is give me excessively honky mids and shrill highs. I mean, can it really be that the UL is voiced to sound shitty with V30's?

 

[xiwiwix]

Interesting that you are having such a tough time dialing it in. Having the same problem with mine. This one is a 2003 and the one I just got rid of recently was a 2004. Dialing in the 2004 was easy, it was hard to get a bad tone. This one has way more mids, almost to the point of being annoying and hard on the ears. Hard to dial out and if you get too much treble dialed in it gets very harsh, and it is a fine line between having enough and too much/harsh. Wonder if they made some revisions around this time frame? I'm struggling with it as it seems you are. Got it from Guitar Center used and half tempted to take it back. Should of never got rid of my original one a back in late June. So goes the game of professional amp whoring

What speakers/cab are you using?

 

[xiwiwix]

After a lot of tube swapping i found the factory recommended toobz to be best...
v1 tung sol ri,chinese in the rest...only change is that i use a NOS mullard 12at7in the driver stage...sovtek kt88 for power....keeley sd1 as a clean boost

I missed this post.

Damn, I have one Tung Sol ri and it's in my Mesa. I don't have my keeley sd1 one anymore. I'm really temped to clean boost it with a Metal Zone.

 

[apophis]

An ecc81 is the same as a 12at7.....the jj will be darker overall ....I highly recommend getting rid of the eh tubes,they are extremely anemic sounding,quite bright and thin IMHO ......all chinese tubes fare much better with this amp, but one jj tube you COULD like in v1 is the JJ ECC 803...

Try all boost you can find,some will work ok...some i have tried that sound cool with it: bodenhamer bloody murder,way huge green rhino,keeley sd1,krank krankshaft od.