Len Rabinowitz
New member
I know what you mean also. More broadly then just the amp, I have never quite gotten any recording I have ever made to sound quite right to me, and certainly they have never sounded quite like I hear them in my head.
A
Anonymous
Guest
there-in my friends lies the problem.
too many options, too many sounds floating around, and not enough hands or time to grab em all!
tone greed!
too many options, too many sounds floating around, and not enough hands or time to grab em all!
tone greed!
R
ripsix
New member
Ok, got to play with my 4100 a bit in rehearsals and on one gig and noticed a few things... the "perceived" loudness "issue" was mostly me. Put it with a 4x12 cab and applied enough gain and channel volume and had plenty of headroom. Even running half-power with all but CL1 on 10watts at our last gig I was perceived as "too loud" by the lead singer/guitarist... 
Like yeti has mentioned the OD channels don't really start to shine (at least for the tones I like) until about 1:00 to 2:00 and OD2 and I definitely speak the same language! I can dial that channel in for tones I like real well and could from the beginning. It's the closest I've come to that "heavy" tone I've heard in my head for the last 30 years or so... Thanks Bruce!!!! And after corresponding with Bruce (and I'm stilled stunned he answers emails, promptly even, from regular guys like me) I am able to use an EQ to really push that low end into some unbelievable areas. Which is kinda interesting, and cool, because the amp really is strong in the low end to begin with, I find I can dial it from sloppy to tight pretty easily. The depth control really works and I find it's fantastic to dial in just the right amount of tightness for the low end at any volume... wonderful feature.
I'm starting to get OD1 dialed in a bit better, it's very "Marshall-y" and I'm not necessarily a fan of those mid-range harmonics at least in my current "perception of tone" (even though I own and love a JCM800 that I purchased new in '82).
CL1 is really nice, I can get some real nice sounds out of that with every guitar I own and it's very versatile and I can dial in everything from "clinical" clean to a wonderful clean that has some "depth and warmth". To this point my LP with the pickup selector in the middle position with this channel is just amazing!
Then to CL2, to this point I just can't get it dialed in without a tubescreamer. I'm thinking I want more grit out of it than it's designed for. I can get it close but then I seem to lose "balance" with the other channels. But like I said, a tubescreamer fixes it right up.
I'm starting to come around to the contour controls and the modern/classic switches. At low volumes/gain I initially seemed to like the classic setting only and I thought the contour compressed or squashed the tone too much.. sort of "deadened" it as did the modern switch. However, as has been stated by others, once you "open" this amp up a bit and play it at "volume" then the amp comes alive. All the nuances of the modern and contour start to blossom and can really start to explore the tone of this amp.
The one thing that I feel is missing is a solo boost like the Mesa. I've found that with the modern switch on and the OD channels gain engaged past 10:00 then a clean boost such as the MXR Micro Amp, Boss GE-7 equalizer or even a tubescreamer have virtually no effect. No boost at all especially with OD2. CL channels both respond fine. However borrowing from yeti's post on using the effects loop, I've found that I can use that or what I've done is put my boost pedal there (along with my "time changin" effects) and it then boosts the OD channels fine, however seems to have less to no affect on the CL channels (which is fine for CL1 as I almost never have to boost my cleanest channel anyway).
So all in all, I think she's a keeper (well, for me every decent piece of gear is anyway. I never get rid of any good guitar gear!
)! Great versatility in just about every sense of an amp and exactly what I was looking for (well almost... my views on tone seem to change with time...) to replace my pedal driven overdrive/gain sounds. I'm extremely pleased (for now) and am impressed with the Egnater especially since I'd never really heard much about them or considered them in the past and the fact that the owner of the company is not too busy to get down in the mud with his customers and work with them. With all that said, from what I can tell to this point, an Armageddon may need to be added to the arsenal too.
Sorry for the long dissertation, just wanted to follow up on my previous posts and share my initial experiences with my TM and Egnater in general.
Enjoy!,
Mark
Like yeti has mentioned the OD channels don't really start to shine (at least for the tones I like) until about 1:00 to 2:00 and OD2 and I definitely speak the same language! I can dial that channel in for tones I like real well and could from the beginning. It's the closest I've come to that "heavy" tone I've heard in my head for the last 30 years or so... Thanks Bruce!!!!
And after corresponding with Bruce (and I'm stilled stunned he answers emails, promptly even, from regular guys like me) I am able to use an EQ to really push that low end into some unbelievable areas. Which is kinda interesting, and cool, because the amp really is strong in the low end to begin with, I find I can dial it from sloppy to tight pretty easily. The depth control really works and I find it's fantastic to dial in just the right amount of tightness for the low end at any volume... wonderful feature.I'm starting to get OD1 dialed in a bit better, it's very "Marshall-y" and I'm not necessarily a fan of those mid-range harmonics at least in my current "perception of tone" (even though I own and love a JCM800 that I purchased new in '82).
CL1 is really nice, I can get some real nice sounds out of that with every guitar I own and it's very versatile and I can dial in everything from "clinical" clean to a wonderful clean that has some "depth and warmth". To this point my LP with the pickup selector in the middle position with this channel is just amazing!
Then to CL2, to this point I just can't get it dialed in without a tubescreamer. I'm thinking I want more grit out of it than it's designed for. I can get it close but then I seem to lose "balance" with the other channels. But like I said, a tubescreamer fixes it right up.
I'm starting to come around to the contour controls and the modern/classic switches. At low volumes/gain I initially seemed to like the classic setting only and I thought the contour compressed or squashed the tone too much.. sort of "deadened" it as did the modern switch. However, as has been stated by others, once you "open" this amp up a bit and play it at "volume" then the amp comes alive. All the nuances of the modern and contour start to blossom and can really start to explore the tone of this amp.
The one thing that I feel is missing is a solo boost like the Mesa. I've found that with the modern switch on and the OD channels gain engaged past 10:00 then a clean boost such as the MXR Micro Amp, Boss GE-7 equalizer or even a tubescreamer have virtually no effect. No boost at all especially with OD2. CL channels both respond fine. However borrowing from yeti's post on using the effects loop, I've found that I can use that or what I've done is put my boost pedal there (along with my "time changin" effects) and it then boosts the OD channels fine, however seems to have less to no affect on the CL channels (which is fine for CL1 as I almost never have to boost my cleanest channel anyway).
So all in all, I think she's a keeper (well, for me every decent piece of gear is anyway. I never get rid of any good guitar gear!
)! Great versatility in just about every sense of an amp and exactly what I was looking for (well almost... my views on tone seem to change with time...) to replace my pedal driven overdrive/gain sounds. I'm extremely pleased (for now) and am impressed with the Egnater especially since I'd never really heard much about them or considered them in the past and the fact that the owner of the company is not too busy to get down in the mud with his customers and work with them. With all that said, from what I can tell to this point, an Armageddon may need to be added to the arsenal too.Sorry for the long dissertation, just wanted to follow up on my previous posts and share my initial experiences with my TM and Egnater in general.
Enjoy!,
Mark
A
Anonymous
Guest
glad to hear you got her dialed in mark. it takes a bit, but worth the time for sure.
i haven't used an eq in the loop yet, i use one before the amp to boost to the mid range i like to hear.
i haven't used an eq in the loop yet, i use one before the amp to boost to the mid range i like to hear.
R
ripsix
New member
Hey there yeti! Yep it definitely appears to be worth the time. It's growing on me the more I play her.
I've tried the EQ in the loop and in front and I find that I like it in front better. if I scoop out with 400hz being the lower "peak" of the scoop (as per Bruce's recommendation) and play a bit with OD2's bass in conjunction with the density control I can get some real sick bottom end... thunderous and window rattling without question. Just make sure you have the speakers to handle it!
So are you still on the fence about your TM or do you plan to keep her?
I've tried the EQ in the loop and in front and I find that I like it in front better. if I scoop out with 400hz being the lower "peak" of the scoop (as per Bruce's recommendation) and play a bit with OD2's bass in conjunction with the density control I can get some real sick bottom end... thunderous and window rattling without question. Just make sure you have the speakers to handle it!
So are you still on the fence about your TM or do you plan to keep her?
A
Anonymous
Guest
keeping.
til i trade it!!!
til i trade it!!!
R
rizla
Active member
@ripsix,
Glad your'e getting it sorted.
I used mine today for the 1st time in a band/jam/rehearsal situation and I have to say it sounded pretty much as I expected. Good.
Ch2/cl2 is the channel that has me scratching my head as to what Im going to do with it. Not enough gain, or not enough to differentiate it from cl1. Almost like I could live with either cl1 or cl2 and a od and not need the other cl.
I also got to hear the TM while some one else was playing through it. It sounded great.
We were playing RHCP, Green Day, Blink, Foo's etc. Everything easily achievable with this amp. Thumbs up from the drummer and other guitarist. Therein lies the problem. The other guitarist wants to use it or buy a TM himself now. I dont want two of the same amp on stage.It can be tricky carving out your own spot anyway. Maybe worse with same amps and cabs. I dont want to use my Mesa LSC and pedals but he wants to have a TM4100 as well after hearing and playing through it. Bit of a dilemma of sorts even though it is a big thumbs up for the TM4100.
Still havnt figured out what delay pedal works best in the loop but have to admit I was pretty happy not to even use one today for the stuff we were working through. But I guess I will have to sort out what Im going to have in the loop sooner than later.
A humble Boss GE-7 in the loop works fine for a solo boost for me.
I have the cl1,2 set to classic and od1,2 set to modern. I dont use the contour controls.
Cheers
Edit:
Back to CL2. In the situation I need the amp for the CL2 may not be so useful to me but in a more blues based low gain situation I think that channel would be very useful. It may be the channel I set the other channels around. Might never be in a situation to see if thats right though.
Glad your'e getting it sorted.
I used mine today for the 1st time in a band/jam/rehearsal situation and I have to say it sounded pretty much as I expected. Good.
Ch2/cl2 is the channel that has me scratching my head as to what Im going to do with it. Not enough gain, or not enough to differentiate it from cl1. Almost like I could live with either cl1 or cl2 and a od and not need the other cl.
I also got to hear the TM while some one else was playing through it. It sounded great.
We were playing RHCP, Green Day, Blink, Foo's etc. Everything easily achievable with this amp. Thumbs up from the drummer and other guitarist. Therein lies the problem. The other guitarist wants to use it or buy a TM himself now. I dont want two of the same amp on stage.It can be tricky carving out your own spot anyway. Maybe worse with same amps and cabs. I dont want to use my Mesa LSC and pedals but he wants to have a TM4100 as well after hearing and playing through it. Bit of a dilemma of sorts even though it is a big thumbs up for the TM4100.
Still havnt figured out what delay pedal works best in the loop but have to admit I was pretty happy not to even use one today for the stuff we were working through. But I guess I will have to sort out what Im going to have in the loop sooner than later.
A humble Boss GE-7 in the loop works fine for a solo boost for me.
I have the cl1,2 set to classic and od1,2 set to modern. I dont use the contour controls.
Cheers
Edit:
Back to CL2. In the situation I need the amp for the CL2 may not be so useful to me but in a more blues based low gain situation I think that channel would be very useful. It may be the channel I set the other channels around. Might never be in a situation to see if thats right though.
Len Rabinowitz
New member
Channel 2 absolutely RIPS for old style blues/rock and roll stuff! I set the gain up to about 2 o'clock, plug in my 335, and go!
R
rizla
Active member
Thanks for the confirmation. I even pictured using a 335 in the scenario I was describingLen Rabinowitz":20ej136h said:Channel 2 absolutely RIPS for old style blues/rock and roll stuff! I set the gain up to about 2 o'clock, plug in my 335, and go!
B
bruce egnater
New member
Since channels 1 and 2 are very much alike aside from the gain difference, why not use the contour and other controls to get a totally different sound on one channel? Using the contour on with humbucking pickups can give a really nice, prisitine clean (almost acoustic) tone by removing the inherent midrange in the HB pickups.
A
Anonymous
Guest
bruces description is exactly what i do. channel 1 sounds great on mine....ch2, i use for those early zepp/heavier, gritty blues/country jangle tones.
my power section REALLY differentiates those two channels from each other too, so dont forget about that.
my power section REALLY differentiates those two channels from each other too, so dont forget about that.
Len Rabinowitz
New member
Definitely use the capabilities of the amp. They are there for a reason! I still use the suggested settings in the manual. I like a lot of them- You might want to try them out.
Bruce's suggestion has helped me with my 2 humbucker 2 single coil channels idea. I would have said the 1 and 2 were totally different, but I guess I can't argue with Bruce!
Bruce's suggestion has helped me with my 2 humbucker 2 single coil channels idea. I would have said the 1 and 2 were totally different, but I guess I can't argue with Bruce!
R
rizla
Active member
bruce egnater":dlh7f3k7 said:
Its not really an issue.Len Rabinowitz":dlh7f3k7 said:Definitely use the capabilities of the amp. They are there for a reason! I still use the suggested settings in the manual. I like a lot of them- You might want to try them out.
Bruce's suggestion has helped me with my 2 humbucker 2 single coil channels idea. I would have said the 1 and 2 were totally different, but I guess I can't argue with Bruce!
Just because I might not use it in this situation doesnt mean I wont use it in another. I wasnt discounting its use out right. Just in this bands situation. I also do some more classic rock, blues gigs where that channel might be just the thing and I find myself wondering what to do with ch4/od2 and ch1/cl1. Its alright . It will all be there when I need/want it. On a side note, the other guitarist came into work today asking where he can get a TM4100.
We've both had different Mesa's, Marshalls at different times while working together, and hes had a couple of Hughes and Kettners. We both instantly bonded with the TM4100. Just the versatility, ease of use, and ease of dialing in good usable sounds. No stomps needed.
Len Rabinowitz
New member
The Tourmaster is the unsung hero. I still think it the best of the imported line, and believe me the Tweaker, Rebel, and Renegade provide stiff competition!
R
rizla
Active member
Think somewhere in this thread I said I wasnt really much into swapping out tubes and expecting big results. So Im going to eat a little humble pie right now.
I had a microphonic tube in v2. But swapped v1 and v3 before I got to v2. Each swap did quieten or affect the sound in some way. For the better. I swapped with what ever I had. spax12ax7's, standard Mesa 12ax7's and EH12ax7's. I swapped out v1,2,3,4 and v8.
At each position swap I had a quick play through all the channels to see if there was a difference and in most cases there was some slight change in response or sound. Not as much as going between any of the cabs I have. That is a real difference in overall tone. Not something you have to listen hard for. Immediate and obvious. But there was a change in quality of sound with each tube swap I made.
It got me thinking about a fender amp I had that came with GT's also. I let a friend use it for a few months and when it came back all the GT's were in a paper bag and there positions filled with other tubes. I never thought much about it other than maybe it was the guys way of repaying me for the use of the amp. But I really did like the amp after getting it back where as I could take or leave it before I gave it to the guy to use.
The TM really has benefited from this little tube swap even if the main result has been to quieten down some of the hiss and noise on the overdrive channels. Maybe Im just not a groove tubes kind of guy
Im going to try a set of 6l6's just to see satisfy my own curiosity. Probably Mesa, I have a few spare.
Still loving the TM. Great amp.
Thanks
I had a microphonic tube in v2. But swapped v1 and v3 before I got to v2. Each swap did quieten or affect the sound in some way. For the better. I swapped with what ever I had. spax12ax7's, standard Mesa 12ax7's and EH12ax7's. I swapped out v1,2,3,4 and v8.
At each position swap I had a quick play through all the channels to see if there was a difference and in most cases there was some slight change in response or sound. Not as much as going between any of the cabs I have. That is a real difference in overall tone. Not something you have to listen hard for. Immediate and obvious. But there was a change in quality of sound with each tube swap I made.
It got me thinking about a fender amp I had that came with GT's also. I let a friend use it for a few months and when it came back all the GT's were in a paper bag and there positions filled with other tubes. I never thought much about it other than maybe it was the guys way of repaying me for the use of the amp. But I really did like the amp after getting it back where as I could take or leave it before I gave it to the guy to use.
The TM really has benefited from this little tube swap even if the main result has been to quieten down some of the hiss and noise on the overdrive channels. Maybe Im just not a groove tubes kind of guy
Im going to try a set of 6l6's just to see satisfy my own curiosity. Probably Mesa, I have a few spare.
Still loving the TM. Great amp.
Thanks
R
rizla
Active member
Just an update after 3 1/2 months.rizla":1ibnwlq4 said:quick review so far. Ive only mucked around with it for a couple of hours.
Channel 1: Great clean channel. Loves strats and single coils. Hum buckers sound great also. Bright and punchy. Good solid feel to it. I prefer the classic mode and have spent most of my time there. It immediately grabbed my attention.
Channel 2: Still playing with this channel. Its the least obvious of the 4. Its not hard to find good sounds in it. Just slightly harder to figure out what gain level I want it set at compared to the others and what songs I would use it for.
Channel 3: Yahoo... This is a fun channel in either mode. I love it. Gain dialed down and a strat is great. Gain dialed up with a Les Paul is a big slab of goofy yehaa. Its a bit tighter than I thought it was going to be after reading some review's. Tight enough for me anyway.
Channel 4: I'm guessing I will use this as a solo channel of ch3. I'm sure there are other ways to use it though.
I seem to like the classic mode on all four channels. I dont at this point have to much use for the contour button and dial. Its there, I will probably use it at some stage.
The amp seems to want to be played at reasonable levels. It would be a frustrating amp to own if you could only use it at polite conversational levels. Its sweet spots fall in line with the levels created by a stick hitting a snare. This suits my needs.
I like the reverb. I just use a touch. It sounds good on this amp.
I spent a little time with the power options. Its quite useful but I will leave it all on 100w. I like 100w.
Cant fault it yet. Its fun getting to know it. Its not hard to get a good sound out of it.
Today I ran it at the same time as my Mesa LS. That was pretty awesome. Big. Smile inducing. Love to do a gig with that combination.
I checked the bias it was down around 102mv so I played around with it for a while and settled on 130 for now. Adjusting it made quite a difference. Not as ratty sounding. Bigger? more open?
Anyway, annoyed I had to wait so long but happy its here and glad I like it.
The weight(60lb's) doesn't bother me. Cant see the big deal. Grow a set.
I will update the review as I go. This is only first impressions.
Still loving it. Still dont use the contour switches and contour dials. I'm just as likely to use channel 1 or two as a clean channel. I use channel 1 and 2 in classic mode and 3 and 4 in modern. Pretty much dime the main volume and set each channels volume and gain to suit the occasion. Still dont use the power grid. Its set to 100w on every slider. Its a loud amp. Any half arsed quiet volume tweak at a guitar store will not give the right impression. If you read a review where some one states that they tried one at a guitar store and didn't like it, disregard that review. Its worthless. Try one for yourself at a level where the stick hits the snare.
No reliability issues so far other than a noisy preamp tube.
I like to run this head through my Mesa horizontal 212. Other cabs I have work fine but this combination works really well.
Cheers
Len Rabinowitz
New member
I still find mine really enjoyable to work with. I think the Tourmaster is the ultimate Tweaker! You should use the contour controls and the power grid. A lot of flexibility there.
I was curious about one thing. On the Tourmaster, the power grid is more of a subtle tone control. It doesn't really affect the volume output much.
When I was playing a Mesa Transatlantic, I was switiching it from 5 to 15 to 25 watts and really heard a difference. 25 watts was a lot louder.
Why do you think that difference happens? What is the design difference?
I was curious about one thing. On the Tourmaster, the power grid is more of a subtle tone control. It doesn't really affect the volume output much.
When I was playing a Mesa Transatlantic, I was switiching it from 5 to 15 to 25 watts and really heard a difference. 25 watts was a lot louder.
Why do you think that difference happens? What is the design difference?
R
rizla
Active member
Len,Len Rabinowitz":2r9vxf49 said:I still find mine really enjoyable to work with. I think the Tourmaster is the ultimate Tweaker! You should use the contour controls and the power grid. A lot of flexibility there.
I was curious about one thing. On the Tourmaster, the power grid is more of a subtle tone control. It doesn't really affect the volume output much.
When I was playing a Mesa Transatlantic, I was switiching it from 5 to 15 to 25 watts and really heard a difference. 25 watts was a lot louder.
Why do you think that difference happens? What is the design difference?
I was tweaking the TM side by side with a Modern Vintage and JCM Slash trying to cop some of the sounds from those amps...not too hard really. I took your advice and thought I would try the power grid. I got to be honest, I didn't notice any real difference in volume, power amp clipping or much else. maybe a little....I think.......not really sure....... not really noticeable. Might be too subtle for me to notice or the power grid doesn't actually work on mine.. My Mesa LS has 10/50/100 watts and there is at least some difference between the different wattage's. Volume and less head room as you set down the wattage. The JCM Slash also has a Hi/Low power switch and again, the difference is noticeable.
I wasn't trying this out at usual volumes I run the amp at. A bit quieter than normal. I was at home with it so I couldn't try it at a good level. Maybe that had something to do with it
. But even still, the Mesa LS when run through the different watts did clearly react differently to each flick of the switch and so did the JCM Slash at that same volume level.One thing I did try was THD Yellow jackets in the TM. That had a significant impact. Not sure If I liked it but at least I could tell that something had changed. I did make the amp creamier on ch3 and ch2 did break up a bit smoother and sooner.
Other than all that, I cant answer your question
I dont think my power grid works Sounds great on 100w anyway.
R
rizla
Active member
Found this on the Egnater web site thanks to viking22's post in another thread.
It was still loud enough to have a good sound but not so loud i was going to annoy the neighbors.
Still doesnt explain to me why I noticed the difference on the Mesa more. I never use the 10 or 50w on the Mesa either tbh.
So yeah, at the levels I was using it at it probably didnt make a difference
It was still loud enough to have a good sound but not so loud i was going to annoy the neighbors.Still doesnt explain to me why I noticed the difference on the Mesa more. I never use the 10 or 50w on the Mesa either tbh.
Len Rabinowitz
New member
rizla":2k5ovxt0 said:Len,Len Rabinowitz":2k5ovxt0 said:I still find mine really enjoyable to work with. I think the Tourmaster is the ultimate Tweaker! You should use the contour controls and the power grid. A lot of flexibility there.
I was curious about one thing. On the Tourmaster, the power grid is more of a subtle tone control. It doesn't really affect the volume output much.
When I was playing a Mesa Transatlantic, I was switiching it from 5 to 15 to 25 watts and really heard a difference. 25 watts was a lot louder.
Why do you think that difference happens? What is the design difference?
I was tweaking the TM side by side with a Modern Vintage and JCM Slash trying to cop some of the sounds from those amps...not too hard really. I took your advice and thought I would try the power grid. I got to be honest, I didn't notice any real difference in volume, power amp clipping or much else. maybe a little....I think.......not really sure....... not really noticeable. Might be too subtle for me to notice or the power grid doesn't actually work on mine.. My Mesa LS has 10/50/100 watts and there is at least some difference between the different wattage's. Volume and less head room as you set down the wattage. The JCM Slash also has a Hi/Low power switch and again, the difference is noticeable.
I wasn't trying this out at usual volumes I run the amp at. A bit quieter than normal. I was at home with it so I couldn't try it at a good level. Maybe that had something to do with it
One thing I did try was THD Yellow jackets in the TM. That had a significant impact. Not sure If I liked it but at least I could tell that something had changed. I did make the amp creamier on ch3 and ch2 did break up a bit smoother and sooner.
Other than all that, I cant answer your question
When I was looking I played 3 or 4 Tourmasters and it wasn't obvious on any of them. I have been pretty sure that I have heard it when I have cranked the amp up. I think it is a design issue rather than a problem, but it might be interesting if Bruce or Ian chimed in.