What amp would suit me best at my budget?

[Speeddemon]

@conanthewarrior
Note that the Fireball 25 and MT15, as well as the bigger EVH 50W all have 'big' tubes; 6L6.
This usually translates to a fuller tone, even for tight metal, compared to amps with 2x EL84 tubes, which are considered 'small'.

Now, I will say, as someone who owns and gigs with the EVH 50W, as well as the Engl Ironball for home-use, the Engl Ironball doesn't sound as small as most EL84 amps. And it has not only a very good master volume knob for home use, it also has the power soak function, to reduce the wattage from 20W, to 5W to 1W or even off. But the Fireball 25 also has this powersoak option. It does lack the reverb, which the Ironball does have.

Aside from the vertical 2x12 Harley Benton cab, the regular 2x12 cab from them, when placed on its short side (so vertically) has the exact same width (20") as the EVH 50W amp. I owned that cab for years as well and used it to test a variety of speaker combinations; V30+G12K85 (or K100) especially is a great combo for metal, as the K100 will reinforce some low-end that the V30 will lack, but makes up for with punch and cut.

If I were in your shoes, I'd start with looking at the Engl Fireball 25 (also because I greatly value a footswitchable fx-loop!) and then maybe some of the others, especially as they may be available to you on the used market.

 

[the rossness]

I'm glad to hear that you can go from gigging to using them at really low volumes, as I mentioned I was under the wrong impression that I needed something lower watt wise to play quietly, so will keep those on my idea list for sure!

I think so far the MT15 is my most likely go too, as I can get it for just £499 new. Did you find the tube swap made any change in tone, or was it you just needed to replace them?

It's funny you mention Laney, I was considering a Laney Ironheart 15H a few years ago, looks like I would have to buy it new now though. It was only £399 new, so is it actually any good?


I have to ask, what is a "Crab" amp lol?

I don't actually know what amp that is, apart from obviously Ibanez, was this a joke or are they good amps?


Thank you for doing the Google search, and I understand because you are listing them you can't guarantee anything, but still very kind of you.

I live right near to Southend if I was to go for the tonex, also thanks for Wunjo guitars as a Dark terror is something I think I would like.

I see, so if I had a bit more money I could potentially get a really good head! Maybe I will try and save a bit more as it is an investment, at least thats the way I see it.

I only mentioned the tonex as the quad cortex seemed really cool, however I think I need to use my computer as well as the pedal to make it run don't I? I would rather something that works standalone so that might not be the right choice for me.

The PRS MT15 seems like a great contender at the moment given its price, and its good reviews.

I bought my Laney new for just over $600 shipped to me. Killer deal as they’re usually much more expensive. And yea, for $600 3 channels, 60 wats with a built in boost and power scaling options. It was money well spent.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Different brands and types of preamp tubes have different qualities. Not a necessity.

Amp sounds great plugged straight in but I like a really tight feel and a good TS or similar pedal that cuts a bunch of lows going in is my preference. This is with most amps though. Even an EQ pedal works for this.

I see, I think I would likely be fine with the standard tubes as long as they are working correctly.

Thats good to hear, I generally play plugged straight in apart from a tuner pedal, but could get a tubescreamer to tighten things up a bit

Hello! Just to clarify and expand since you asked:

Crab amps are a brand that is hand made by a guy in the Ukraine. He can build a custom styled amp head or one that is his clone of another. There is a post on here where a member grabbed an Orion and something else from him. That member got 100w tube heads for like $650 a piece or something. I personally would go for a 50w or something just to save my ears a touch but the pricing seems hard to beat for the quality.

He has a Facebook page I found when looking up Crab amps.

Beware that I have not personally been able to play a Crab amp, just have heard about them and read about them online, including this forum.

Oh I see, this is something I could look into a the idea of a custom made amp sounds really cool! I will keep that as a potential option although I am leaning towards the MT15.

In the UK, Marshall or Victory will be priced well.

JVM410H, JCM 900 SL-X, DSL,...

Hmm, I haven't ever checked out victory before so this is something else I can look at, thank you! Also the Marshalls you mention I will look at now.

Dumble or train wreck….. if you are not in a hurry I would suggest a Larry….

I don't think even selling my kidneys, limbs and eyes would pay for one of those lol.

@conanthewarrior
Note that the Fireball 25 and MT15, as well as the bigger EVH 50W all have 'big' tubes; 6L6.
This usually translates to a fuller tone, even for tight metal, compared to amps with 2x EL84 tubes, which are considered 'small'.

Now, I will say, as someone who owns and gigs with the EVH 50W, as well as the Engl Ironball for home-use, the Engl Ironball doesn't sound as small as most EL84 amps. And it has not only a very good master volume knob for home use, it also has the power soak function, to reduce the wattage from 20W, to 5W to 1W or even off. But the Fireball 25 also has this powersoak option. It does lack the reverb, which the Ironball does have.

Aside from the vertical 2x12 Harley Benton cab, the regular 2x12 cab from them, when placed on its short side (so vertically) has the exact same width (20") as the EVH 50W amp. I owned that cab for years as well and used it to test a variety of speaker combinations; V30+G12K85 (or K100) especially is a great combo for metal, as the K100 will reinforce some low-end that the V30 will lack, but makes up for with punch and cut.

If I were in your shoes, I'd start with looking at the Engl Fireball 25 (also because I greatly value a footswitchable fx-loop!) and then maybe some of the others, especially as they may be available to you on the used market.

I see, I didn't realise that bigger tubes meant a fuller tone, so I have learned something.

The ironballs power soak function sounds perfect for me, so hang on the Ironball includes reverb but the higher priced Fireball does not?

The ENGL fireball is probably number 2 on my list, only due to cost factors vs the MT15. I will have to do some proper research before I decide what to buy!

 

[conanthewarrior]

I bought my Laney new for just over $600 shipped to me. Killer deal as they’re usually much more expensive. And yea, for $600 3 channels, 60 wats with a built in boost and power scaling options. It was money well spent.

What model Laney did you get? That sounds a great deal!

 

[JackBootedThug]

You’re in Europe right? Get that four channel crab
SLAVA UKRAINE !!! Whatever that means… I’m waiting to hear from my brosky when he gets his. If he gives me the green light then I’ll probably order one myself…

 

[Speeddemon]

The ironballs power soak function sounds perfect for me, so hang on the Ironball includes reverb but the higher priced Fireball does not?

Engl Ironball back: (has reverb control + headphones out )

Engl Fireball 25 back: (has noise gate control )

Both have 4 functions that can be footwitched:

Ironball: Channel, Gain Boost, Master Volume Boost, Reverb
Fireball: Channel, Mid Boost, Master Volume Boost, FX-Loop

Purely based on the functionality, the Ironball is slightly more intended for studio/home use, whereas the Fireball also veers into rehearsal and possibly gigging use. The Ironball's gain boost is pretty useful!

Note: I actually have gigged with the Ironball and the 2x12 Harley Benton cab (sold now), but it runs out of gas quickly then.
As I have quite a few amps (and not enough room anymore), I have no plans to add the Fireball 25 myself anytime soon, but it does look like an interesting option. Especially the KT77 version looks awesome with the typical Engl bars.

For reference:
PRS MT15 back (only footswitchable function is channel switching )

 

[OldGtrGuy]

EVH 5150 III 50 watt

This......in EL-34 configuration. Killer amp

 

[311splawndude]

Thank you for doing the Google search, and I understand because you are listing them you can't guarantee anything, but still very kind of you.

I live right near to Southend if I was to go for the tonex, also thanks for Wunjo guitars as a Dark terror is something I think I would like.

I see, so if I had a bit more money I could potentially get a really good head! Maybe I will try and save a bit more as it is an investment, at least thats the way I see it.

I only mentioned the tonex as the quad cortex seemed really cool, however I think I need to use my computer as well as the pedal to make it run don't I? I would rather something that works standalone so that might not be the right choice for me.

The PRS MT15 seems like a great contender at the moment given its price, and its good reviews.

Hey man, I forgot to ask you if you got your new tube(s) yet - can't remember.

Sounds like you want to move on regardless so kudos for that. But yeah, hard to sell a broken amp.

I made a clip for you with my Recto at low volume since you were asking, but it didn't accomplish what I wanted because it sounds loud But it was still just maybe over TV volume.

Can't really speak to the ToneX stuff. Have not messed with it. I only downloaded the software back when it was $99.

I think the Iron Ball, Randall MT15 and EVH III 50 are going to be great options for you.

 

[the rossness]

What model Laney did you get? That sounds a great deal!

Laney (IRT60H) Ironheart 60 watt head. Proaudiostar blew them out on Reverb for $569 plus shipping. I couldn’t resist.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Engl Ironball back: (has reverb control + headphones out )
View attachment 378479

Engl Fireball 25 back: (has noise gate control )
View attachment 378482

Both have 4 functions that can be footwitched:

Ironball: Channel, Gain Boost, Master Volume Boost, Reverb
Fireball: Channel, Mid Boost, Master Volume Boost, FX-Loop

Purely based on the functionality, the Ironball is slightly more intended for studio/home use, whereas the Fireball also veers into rehearsal and possibly gigging use. The Ironball's gain boost is pretty useful!

Note: I actually have gigged with the Ironball and the 2x12 Harley Benton cab (sold now), but it runs out of gas quickly then.
As I have quite a few amps (and not enough room anymore), I have no plans to add the Fireball 25 myself anytime soon, but it does look like an interesting option. Especially the KT77 version looks awesome with the typical Engl bars.

For reference:
PRS MT15 back (only footswitchable function is channel switching )
View attachment 378485

Thank you for taking the time to find and upload those images to help me out! Ahh that makes sense, the Ironball has reverb whereas the Fireball has a noise gate. Thinking about it, I would likely find the noise gate more helpful for me, although of course I could just use a pedal if I got the Ironball.
I have a home studio so the Ironball may be better suited to me for recording and also practice.

You mention the Ironball into the HB 2x12 runs out of gas pretty quickly, by this do you mean it fights to keep up with a drummer for example during practice, or there is not enough headroom, or both?

The KT77 model from a quick search is available for just £20 more than the standard version from Thomann, and I must say I think it looks a lot nicer than the standard fireball.

What is the difference between the 6L6GC and the KT77 tubes? I really do apologise, I should know this stuff. I studied at the British academy of new music in London on a 3 year production and sound engineering course but a few years ago suffered a serious head injury that has impacted my memory, so a lot of things I learnt or knew I gather I no longer remember.

Also I see that the footswitch does less on the MT15.

I also have to ask, I only see a 16 Ohm input or 8 Ohm parallel on the MT15, my cab is 8 Ohms so where exactly would I plug the speaker in as I would not want to damage the amp if that is the one I go for?

This......in EL-34 configuration. Killer amp

I really do like the idea of this, although I worry I may not be able to afford it. I will keep checking the used market and see if anything good pops up! Is the EL34 configuration better than the 6L6 version, or is this a personal preference?

Hey man, I forgot to ask you if you got your new tube(s) yet - can't remember.

Sounds like you want to move on regardless so kudos for that. But yeah, hard to sell a broken amp.

I made a clip for you with my Recto at low volume since you were asking, but it didn't accomplish what I wanted because it sounds loud But it was still just maybe over TV volume.

Can't really speak to the ToneX stuff. Have not messed with it. I only downloaded the software back when it was $99.

I think the Iron Ball, Randall MT15 and EVH III 50 are going to be great options for you.

No I don't have my new tubes yet, where it seems more likely an actual issue with a connection on the PCB or the FET transformers I haven't even ordered it. Where just reseating the power tube turned the issue from a gradual volume reduction over a few minutes into immediate intermittent cutting in and straight out and the only thing I touched was the power valve I don't want to start spending money on it if it is just broken and would like to get a new amp.

Haha, thank you for trying for me though! Well we actually run our TV quite loud, we leave it on to make it feel like there is a bit of life in the house so slightly loud TV volume would be fine for me

I understand, the Tonex was just a thought, although I believe from watching a review you also need to have your computer running to use it? I want something standalone so it will likely be another amp head for me- if I want to use sims I can plug into my interface through my monitors so already have something for that.

Thank you, now it is time to try and find the money for one of those amps after doing a lot more research on reviews!

Laney (IRT60H) Ironheart 60 watt head. Proaudiostar blew them out on Reverb for $569 plus shipping. I couldn’t resist.

Wow, thats really good for the price! I remember I was interested in the IRT15H, unfortunately it looks like you can't buy them new anymore though, if not that would be a good contender, although one could turn up used. Plus they was only £400 so I imagine used it would be a steal if I was to go for that amp!

Another question to anyone who can answer, out of all of these amps, are they easier to repair than the Blackstars if something goes wrong? As I know the Ht5 is pretty much all PCB, just if something goes wrong it would be nice to know the upgrade can be fixed in the future.

 

[311splawndude]

Engl Ironball back: (has reverb control + headphones out )
View attachment 378479

Engl Fireball 25 back: (has noise gate control )
View attachment 378482

Both have 4 functions that can be footwitched:

Ironball: Channel, Gain Boost, Master Volume Boost, Reverb
Fireball: Channel, Mid Boost, Master Volume Boost, FX-Loop

Purely based on the functionality, the Ironball is slightly more intended for studio/home use, whereas the Fireball also veers into rehearsal and possibly gigging use. The Ironball's gain boost is pretty useful!

Note: I actually have gigged with the Ironball and the 2x12 Harley Benton cab (sold now), but it runs out of gas quickly then.
As I have quite a few amps (and not enough room anymore), I have no plans to add the Fireball 25 myself anytime soon, but it does look like an interesting option. Especially the KT77 version looks awesome with the typical Engl bars.

For reference:
PRS MT15 back (only footswitchable function is channel switching )
View attachment 378485

Dang - now I want that amp

 

[311splawndude]

@conanthewarrior

I would get a new tube anyway. It cant' hurt. It is possible that tube is just kuput. Especially after 10 years. The one thing with tube amps is that you will want some spares and backups. Also for tube rolling, which is taking 1 known good tube and moving through the sockets one at time (V1, V2 V3, etc) to either troubleshoot an issue or experiment with tone changes. For example: Tung Sol = brighter / JJ's = darker. I like JJs and usually buy those from www.eurotubes.com


That clip I made Tuesday at low volume

Best of luck. That Iron Ball really packs a lot of punch and features never really paid it much attention.

 

[OldGtrGuy]

I really do like the idea of this, although I worry I may not be able to afford it. I will keep checking the used market and see if anything good pops up! Is the EL34 configuration better than the 6L6 version, or is this a personal preference?

Just preference i guess. I've had both EL34 and 6L6 amps and loved both.

But the EL34 5153 is just killer for the price and have seen them within your range.

 

[conanthewarrior]

@conanthewarrior

I would get a new tube anyway. It cant' hurt. It is possible that tube is just kuput. Especially after 10 years. The one thing with tube amps is that you will want some spares and backups. Also for tube rolling, which is taking 1 known good tube and moving through the sockets one at time (V1, V2 V3, etc) to either troubleshoot an issue or experiment with tone changes. For example: Tung Sol = brighter / JJ's = darker. I like JJs and usually buy those from www.eurotubes.com


That clip I made Tuesday at low volume

Best of luck. That Iron Ball really packs a lot of punch and features never really paid it much attention.

OK, I will get one, the main reason I didn't is where it is a 12BH7 and that isn't used in many amps I know of I thought that if it wasn't the tube then I would have a random spare I never needed lol. I will order one though, you never know it could actually still just be the tube, so before forking out for a new amp I will try the tube. As you say it is 10 years old, but isn't there vintage amplifiers from the 60's still with original tubes?

I see what you mean by tube rolling now, that makes sense. I did watch a video by Spectre sound studios that shot out different tubes and with a null test said it made no difference, but in the null test you could hear noise which means there is a difference lol. If there was no difference in the null test things would be silent.

I actually had a spare preamp valve as I found the stock Sovtek made the amp kind of sound like a duvet or something thick was thrown over the cab, when I switched to a tung-sol the amp sounded much better to me.

That clip was great, that isn't loud at all! I listened through my studio monitors and sub and it didn't sound louder than I would want to play, in fact I would say that is the perfect volume that I want.

Thank you, I will have to see what I want to do, but after joining here even if the Blackstar just needs a tube change to fix it I also want a new amp head.

I can see joining here becoming an expensive hobby!

 

[conanthewarrior]

Just preference i guess. I've had both EL34 and 6L6 amps and loved both.

But the EL34 5153 is just killer for the price and have seen them within your range.

Ok, that makes sense. Either can be good then but some people just have a personal preference.

Oh wow, if you have seen them within my range that is great!

I must ask though, if I was to buy a used tube amp, what are the things I should look for to make sure it isn't broken? Should I for example test it for 10 minutes with a guitar to make sure it doesn't have a similar volume issue to mine, that kicks in only after the amp warms up?

 

[conanthewarrior]

Right, a strange thing about the Blackstar.

I thought I would try changing the cabs speaker cable from the correct 8 Ohm output to the 16 Ohm output, and the problem has gone!

My amp is no longer cutting out after warming up, I tried it for a good 20 minutes and things were fine!

Does anyone have a clue as to what could be happening? I am just happy the amp is working!

 

[napalmdeath]

Get the Fireball.

 

[napalmdeath]

Right, a strange thing about the Blackstar.

I thought I would try changing the cabs speaker cable from the correct 8 Ohm output to the 16 Ohm output, and the problem has gone!

My amp is no longer cutting out after warming up, I tried it for a good 20 minutes and things were fine!

Does anyone have a clue as to what could be happening? I am just happy the amp is working!

Sounds like the input jack on the cab. Not sure if it's got different jacks or a switch. If there's a switch, spray it with Deoxit and switch it back and forth a few times. Clean the jacks too.

 

[sytharnia1560]

I don't know, for playing at home use I would go Boss Katana ... cheap, a million tone options that actually sound good

 

[Speeddemon]

Thank you for taking the time to find and upload those images to help me out! Ahh that makes sense, the Ironball has reverb whereas the Fireball has a noise gate. Thinking about it, I would likely find the noise gate more helpful for me, although of course I could just use a pedal if I got the Ironball.
I have a home studio so the Ironball may be better suited to me for recording and also practice.

You mention the Ironball into the HB 2x12 runs out of gas pretty quickly, by this do you mean it fights to keep up with a drummer for example during practice, or there is not enough headroom, or both?

Purely when playing with a LOUD drummer.
I've rehearsed with the Ironball with a balanced drummer, where I plugged the Ironball into a Marshall 4x12 cab that was in the rehearsal room. Sounded good. But yeah, at that point the Master level sits around 6 ot 7 (out of 10), so your clean sound won't be truly clean anymore...
For home-studio use in 20W mode, I never had the Master over 3.5 (out of 10). Plenty of headroom then.

The KT77 model from a quick search is available for just £20 more than the standard version from Thomann, and I must say I think it looks a lot nicer than the standard fireball.

Yeah, for GBP20 more it's a no-brainer.

What is the difference between the 6L6GC and the KT77 tubes? I really do apologise, I should know this stuff. I studied at the British academy of new music in London on a 3 year production and sound engineering course but a few years ago suffered a serious head injury that has impacted my memory, so a lot of things I learnt or knew I gather I no longer remember.

KT77's have technically more in common with EL34's, although soundwise, they're really close. HP42 (German Youtuber) did a comparison video of the Fireball 25 regular vs. KT77. Link here. They sound really close, (KT77 sounded louder and fuller clean).

Also I see that the footswitch does less on the MT15.

I also have to ask, I only see a 16 Ohm input or 8 Ohm parallel on the MT15, my cab is 8 Ohms so where exactly would I plug the speaker in as I would not want to damage the amp if that is the one I go for?

Most likely in one of the 2 parallel 8 Ohm inputs; which most likely internally sits at 4 Ohm. Such a mismatch is usually no issue. The problem comes when you're hooking up a speaker cab that's too low in Ohms for whatever amp's output. Then the Output Transformer has to work too hard basically.
This means that you can't hook up 2 8 Ohm cabs simultaneously to the Fireball, but it still works for the Ironball.
If you want to hook up 2 cabs simultaneously to the Fireball, they have to be 16 Ohm cabs both.

Here's a good comparison video of the Fireball 25 and the MT15:



PRS MT15 has slightly nicer cleans, more jangly, in my opinion. For the high gain sounds, it's probably more a matter of preference and what other features you're looking for. The PRS is cheaper of course, but it has significantly less bells and whistles (no noise gate, no mid-boost, no footswitchable master volume boost (pre-set value), no footswitchable fx-loop).