What preamp tubes are you rockin' in your Bogners lately?

[just42dave]

So, what do you guys like in V1, for instance?

Real Mullard or Ei teles are good in last position for the end stage of v1

 

[Ventura]

With all due respect, we represent only the fringe of people buying the amp. there's a whole lot of bedroom players that buy it for the "furniture that makes cool sound" value; these guys don't give two doo-doos about the tubes in it, as long as the amp still makes sound. A good example is the guy I bought it from: of the power tubes, two were almost dead, while the other two were running around 23mA each! And the guy was playing it like that; It'd be too funny to think he sold it just because he didn't know one had to replace tubes every now and again.
So the point is that a lot of people don't know and don't care what's really in there, as long as there's somewhat of a perceived Bogner sound about it. Besides, there's is too many outside variables that would change the tone as well, like guitar, pickups, cords, speakers and enclosures.

Yeah, you're right about that for sure. I once bought a JCM900 Dual Reverb that was supposed to accept 5881s. Came with a nearly dead quad of =C= EL34s. Sounded a bit better after I swapped them for the correct tubes!

That's one thing I don't like about the Ecstasy, actually. It takes a LOT of work and understanding to make them sound their best. They do sound really good if only a few things are off, but the way mine is set up now I'd put it up against a 100B or 20th any day of the week. Might not sound better, but definitely wouldn't be worse. I need to record some clips so people believe me about that....

Further, I think that's why so many people love Diezel amps. The Ecstasy is better suited for my needs, but Diezels seem to be more consistent in sounding great. From what I remember of mine and understand of others, they are less sensitive of preamp tube swaps, easier to EQ and set up, and make different guitars work better together. I don't like the gain structure as much as on the 101b or Twin jet, but Diezel makes one hell of an amp and I look forward to owning another as much for their simplicity as for their tone.

Diezels....

But I gotsta say, the XTC and UberTJ are formidable beasts in their own right!
V.

 

[romvert]

With all due respect, we represent only the fringe of people buying the amp. there's a whole lot of bedroom players that buy it for the "furniture that makes cool sound" value; these guys don't give two doo-doos about the tubes in it, as long as the amp still makes sound. A good example is the guy I bought it from: of the power tubes, two were almost dead, while the other two were running around 23mA each! And the guy was playing it like that; It'd be too funny to think he sold it just because he didn't know one had to replace tubes every now and again.
So the point is that a lot of people don't know and don't care what's really in there, as long as there's somewhat of a perceived Bogner sound about it. Besides, there's is too many outside variables that would change the tone as well, like guitar, pickups, cords, speakers and enclosures.

Yeah, you're right about that for sure. I once bought a JCM900 Dual Reverb that was supposed to accept 5881s. Came with a nearly dead quad of =C= EL34s. Sounded a bit better after I swapped them for the correct tubes!

That's one thing I don't like about the Ecstasy, actually. It takes a LOT of work and understanding to make them sound their best. They do sound really good if only a few things are off, but the way mine is set up now I'd put it up against a 100B or 20th any day of the week. Might not sound better, but definitely wouldn't be worse. I need to record some clips so people believe me about that....

Further, I think that's why so many people love Diezel amps. The Ecstasy is better suited for my needs, but Diezels seem to be more consistent in sounding great. From what I remember of mine and understand of others, they are less sensitive of preamp tube swaps, easier to EQ and set up, and make different guitars work better together. I don't like the gain structure as much as on the 101b or Twin jet, but Diezel makes one hell of an amp and I look forward to owning another as much for their simplicity as for their tone.

Before I settled on the XTC, I extensively researched and listened to Diezels; the only one that really brought some tone IMO was the Einstein, which in turn was not versatile enough for me. The rest had really good clean sound and the rest sounded dead and cold. Suited for metal but not much else. I won't even mention price; I had to choose between a car and the Diezel!LOL
If you have your XTC that dialed in, you should PM me your settings. I did not put that much time into tweaking and I run a Digital FX unit in the loop, yet I still like it. Yours must sound heavenly...

 

[TheMagicEight]

Before I settled on the XTC, I extensively researched and listened to Diezels; the only one that really brought some tone IMO was the Einstein, which in turn was not versatile enough for me. The rest had really good clean sound and the rest sounded dead and cold. Suited for metal but not much else. I won't even mention price; I had to choose between a car and the Diezel!LOL
If you have your XTC that dialed in, you should PM me your settings. I did not put that much time into tweaking and I run a Digital FX unit in the loop, yet I still like it. Yours must sound heavenly...

That clip, although low volume, is the sound I've been searching to get out of the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

Haha, car vs. Diezel? I've played the Herbert & VH4 extensively, but never turned up that loud. Unlike the Ecstasy, at lower volumes they don't have the feel I'm looking for. Seems to me like the distortion is nasally, overly-compressed, and not smooth or harmonically rich like older Marshalls or the Ecstasy. However, enough people love them and praise them highly that I'd still buy one. Why? I'll bet they're hearing something that I haven't yet, and I think I know what it is. I'm going to bet that when turned up and used at a gig, the response of a Diezel is nearly instantaneous, that the nasally or over-compressed distortion turns into openness and brutality. The power amp probably starts to give a lot of depth to the tone that just can't be there the same way when it's at lower volumes. While not conventional, I really do think I see why they're considered so amazing.

 

[_actual time_]

...the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

yes, please, me too--that would be awesome. maybe start a new thread?

i've been enjoying my new Ecstasy a lot, tinkering with preamp tube swaps (so far i like the Mullard RI in v1). but i'm getting to the point where i'd like to learn more about how to dial it in well.

 

[TheMagicEight]

...the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

yes, please, me too--that would be awesome. maybe start a new thread?

i've been enjoying my new Ecstasy a lot, tinkering with preamp tube swaps (so far i like the Mullard RI in v1). but i'm getting to the point where i'd like to learn more about how to dial it in well.

Here ya go!

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66149

 

[Ventura]

...the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

yes, please, me too--that would be awesome. maybe start a new thread?

i've been enjoying my new Ecstasy a lot, tinkering with preamp tube swaps (so far i like the Mullard RI in v1). but i'm getting to the point where i'd like to learn more about how to dial it in well.

Are you swapping tubes before figuring out the extent of the EQ...??

Just wondering.
V.

 

[romvert]

...the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

yes, please, me too--that would be awesome. maybe start a new thread?

i've been enjoying my new Ecstasy a lot, tinkering with preamp tube swaps (so far i like the Mullard RI in v1). but i'm getting to the point where i'd like to learn more about how to dial it in well.

Are you swapping tubes before figuring out the extent of the EQ...??

Just wondering.
V.

It makes more sense to do so if you have a bunch of them, since it would take forever otherwise. If it's just two, obviously one can also tweak...

 

[RockStarNick]

...the Ecstasy since I've owned it. If you're seriously interested, I'd be more than happy to give a full rundown of my settings and how I go about the tone.

yes, please, me too--that would be awesome. maybe start a new thread?

i've been enjoying my new Ecstasy a lot, tinkering with preamp tube swaps (so far i like the Mullard RI in v1). but i'm getting to the point where i'd like to learn more about how to dial it in well.

Are you swapping tubes before figuring out the extent of the EQ...??

Just wondering.
V.

I know this may sound crazy, but if I have to deviate TOO far from noon* on any control, on any amp, I automatically assume that something's going on that I don't like in the circuit, whether it be tubes, or guts.

By this, I mean, if I have to keep treble at 9:00 to warm things up, I feel like something's going on that's too bright in the amp.

I swapped tubes in my Bogner, and now, my controls are set much closer to the straight up setting.



*NOTE: On the Shiva's, "zero" is actually straight down at 6:00, and "max" is somewhere around 3:30, so "noon" on the Shiva is more like 11:00 or so I adjust accordingly...

 

[_actual time_]

Are you swapping tubes before figuring out the extent of the EQ...??

yep. i had already figured out where i liked the switch settings, and the knob settings that were on it when i got it sounded pretty good. for me, the EQ is shaping the tone, but the tubes are the character of the tone.

Magic 8, i tried some of your Pre-EQ settings last night. they were cool to try, but they didn't work as well for me. B2 on the Red channel gave me a good bit less gain than B1, and sounded looser on the low strings. i've been running the Blue channel boosted on B1 or N--B1 sounds more cutting for rhythm work, a nice AC/DC sound, but N sounds more woody and open, for lead work. i think my Excursion is T on the Red and M on the Blue.

i did really dig my preamp tube combination--in order, nice Chinese, Tung-Sol RI, JJ, stock Chinese, LPS, Tung-Sol RI. the cleans were quite bright/sparkly and nice, better than i had gotten them before, and the gainy sounds were not sharp. i'll tinker some more just to see.

 

[TheMagicEight]

I know this may sound crazy, but if I have to deviate TOO far from noon* on any control, on any amp, I automatically assume that something's going on that I don't like in the circuit, whether it be tubes, or guts.

By this, I mean, if I have to keep treble at 9:00 to warm things up, I feel like something's going on that's too bright in the amp.

I swapped tubes in my Bogner, and now, my controls are set much closer to the straight up setting.



*NOTE: On the Shiva's, "zero" is actually straight down at 6:00, and "max" is somewhere around 3:30, so "noon" on the Shiva is more like 11:00 or so I adjust accordingly...

A BIG +1 there. Doesn't need to be noon for me, but somewhere that at least makes "sense".

For example, a few months back my Ecstasy sounded like garbage with the mid knob above 9:00. It didn't sound great with it there either, but anywhere higher and it hurt to listen to. Turned out to be 1) the room I was in and 2) a bad combination of preamp tubes creating this nasty standing frequency. Now I've got the mid control at 1:00, but it sounds great to me on T excursion all the way up through about 3:00. Past that is a little thin sounding, but not like something is wrong.

Why not reposition the knobs on the Shiva to act like regular ones? Couldn't you just take them off and pop them on another way? If it bothers you, that is. It would annoy me after a while!

 

[Ventura]

I'm starting to find that the higher quality Shuguang/Chinese preamps really are the biz for getting the tones out of more recent Bogner iterations... I've always been a fan of Tung Sol, TAD and so forth, but the Chinese 12AX7B and C, or the TAD 12AX7 Premium's are, thus far, unbeatable.

Damn - all these fine jewels of preamp tubes and really, no use anymore I'm sure I'll continue to experiment. But as of late, I'm just DONE with trying to fuss over my heads - I just wanna play, rock, crank and feel the wind...

Peace,
V.

 

[_actual time_]

I'm starting to find that the higher quality Shuguang/Chinese preamps really are the biz for getting the tones out of more recent Bogner iterations... I've always been a fan of Tung Sol, TAD and so forth, but the Chinese 12AX7B and C, or the TAD 12AX7 Premium's are, thus far, unbeatable.

i've found similar--the best v1 tube so far for me in my 101B has been a GT select chinese, better than the Tung-Sol RI and the Mullard RI.

i like the T-S RI in v6, for bright clean tones. i've run it and the Mullard RI and a Sovtek WC in v2 and haven't noticed much difference, and i'm running a JJ in v3. i'll continue to tinker, but i think the Chinese in v1 is key and that v2 and 3 don't matter so much.

 

[steve_k]

Digging up old Bones here.....good thread though.

I am having lots of luck lately with the Chinese Ruby preamp tubes. The HG+ are great on the gain stages, especially in the 100-105 range. The AC5 selects are high end replacements in the other slots. I usually like a Sovtek LPS somewhere in the mix as well. Lots of folks ignore that PI tube. I usually keep a stock of JJ Gold Pin Balanced triodes on hand for that. The Tung Sol is a really good tube for fattening up an otherwise stale channel.

I still haven't found a suitable alternative to the SED Winged C, so my cabinet stays full of matched quads for just about every amp I own. They are getting expensive as hell though.

As for the argument about tubes in new amps, most of us are going to fuck with them anyway and change them all out within the first few days of owning an amp, so why bother with the higher end stuff. I would rather the savings be passed onto me and I make my own mind up.

Steve