What's your favorite boost for your Diezel? What amp?

[stratjacket]

Lichtlaerm Audio the King in Yellow and the Deadweald Duality DX

Lately I've just been sticking to the Lichtlaerm Audio the King in Yellow with a Griffen Chiron (Klon type) in its (the pedals) parallel loop. Also love the Lichtlaerm Audio Aquaria, Airis Aggressive Screamer, Airis Savage Drive, Lovepedal Eternity and Mythos Mjolnir...basically all Klon or TS9 variants. All sound good.

 

[Orvillain]

I've got a Boo Instruments 808 clone, which is pretty sick to boost any high gain amp. I've also got the Boss SD1-waza. I'm looking at getting a Wampler Tumnus Deluxe as well.

 

[shadow070]

It depends on what flafor i want
I enjoy a sd1, ts and bb preamp

I preferr using it only on clean, stacking them gives me a creamy lead tone on the clean channel


im a custom playing the other channels of the herbert without boosting it

 

[C0UNT3RP01NT]

I like Soul Foul as well

Soul Food? I got one as a gift for my dad years ago. Turns out he only uses Tubescreamers, won’t even look at other overdrives. Might grab it from him next time I visit if it works well with Diezel’s?

 

[Techdeth]

Soul Food? I got one as a gift for my dad years ago. Turns out he only uses Tubescreamers, won’t even look at other overdrives. Might grab it from him next time I visit if it works well with Diezel’s?

It’s grainier and more aggressive. Works for different tones

 

[rickenbacker198]

I picked up a VHX last week,
I had some time on Saturday to start to put it through the paces , It doesn't seem to take boosts anything like the Herbert Mk1 or VH4.

So I emailed asking about this difference.
I do have to say - Leo got back to me within a few hours on the weekend, what company does that??
Apparently there was a change in the preamp design,
VH4 , Herbert MK1,2 are different from Hagen, Herbert Mk3, Big Max, DMoll.

The older designs have the gain pot much earlier in the circuit , where a modern Diezel the gain pot is placed at the end.
Which according to Leo makes the dynamic response to a boost very different.

Maybe that's why there is so much mixed opinion on Diezels and boosts,
On the VHX I can max the volume on the Dirty Tree and the amps output does not increase much, almost like it's being limited.

On the OG Diezels the volume increase is dramatic, they react more like an old Marshall.

Just some info to shed light,

 

[C0UNT3RP01NT]

I picked up a VHX last week,
I had some time on Saturday to start to put it through the paces , It doesn't seem to take boosts anything like the Herbert Mk1 or VH4.

So I emailed asking about this difference.
I do have to say - Leo got back to me within a few hours on the weekend, what company does that??
Apparently there was a change in the preamp design,
VH4 , Herbert MK1,2 are different from Hagen, Herbert Mk3, Big Max, DMoll.

The older designs have the gain pot much earlier in the circuit , where a modern Diezel the gain pot is placed at the end.
Which according to Leo makes the dynamic response to a boost very different.

Maybe that's why there is so much mixed opinion on Diezels and boosts,
On the VHX I can max the volume on the Dirty Tree and the amps output does not increase much, almost like it's being limited.

On the OG Diezels the volume increase is dramatic, they react more like an old Marshall.

Just some info to shed light,

So the VHX has the gain sweep at the end? I know the VHX has a different wider sweep than the other Diezels, but I'm not too sure on the particulars. I just know Early - 0 is supposed to be a Blueface VH4, Classic - 0 is a Silverface VH4, Classic - 1 or 2 might be the Hagen, and Modern - 0 is supposed to be a Herbert. I think after awhile I stopped caring what each voice was supposed to be and just dialed it in based off what I want. At the end of the day, it's a VHX, and it's every bit the amp the other's are.

 

[rickenbacker198]

So the VHX has the gain sweep at the end? I know the VHX has a different wider sweep than the other Diezels, but I'm not too sure on the particulars. I just know Early - 0 is supposed to be a Blueface VH4, Classic - 0 is a Silverface VH4, Classic - 1 or 2 might be the Hagen, and Modern - 0 is supposed to be a Herbert. I think after awhile I stopped caring what each voice was supposed to be and just dialed it in based off what I want. At the end of the day, it's a VHX, and it's every bit the amp the other's are.

The VHX is different but still sounds good in it’s own way , it can morph towards sounding like the other amps but still has its own inherent sound as well.

You could think of it like a switchable Diezel tube preamp + Digital filters/ EQ / FX + Diezel tube power amp.

From what I see this is how it works.

It has 3 physical tone stacks that switch by relays.
These 3 modes approximate or duplicate the actual tone stacks of 1 VH4 - 2 Herbert - 3 Hagen.
The gain is all tube, the gain adjustment, is done physically by relays + resistors as well.
After that it’s digital until the power amp.
When you adjust the secondary modes
Vintage, Early, Classic, Modern it’s a digital EQ filter to approximate those things.
The main EQ - Channel Volumes - Midcut and the Presence/ Deep are digital.
Global Volume , Presence and Deep are digital.

There is no load built into the amp , I’ve read that somewhere, but I don’t see it. If there is, it’s a small one and only for safety.
When you have no cab connected the power amp disconnects ( tubes stay lit but only on standby - transformers go cold) and a digital emulation of the power amp is applied to the line output.

The power amp, only used through the speaker outputs, has a single physical control, the master volume knob.

I’ll do a review eventually- it is a truly revolutionary product - but I need a couple of months with it to really form concrete opinions.

A couple things I will share, my opinion of course.
The stock Tung-Sol 12ax7's just don't do it in this amp, they are a buzzy fizzy mess with tons of artifacts.
It is tighter and more modern sounding than the OG Diezels.

 

[valve]

...
After that it’s digital until the power amp.
When you adjust the secondary modes
Vintage, Early, Classic, Modern it’s a digital EQ filter to approximate those things.
The main EQ - Channel Volumes - Midcut and the Presence/ Deep are digital.
Global Volume , Presence and Deep are digital.
....

NOPE!!!

Main EQ is also done with relays and Resistors.
Same for Channel Volume, Presence and Deep...
Vintage, Early, classic , modern is also switched by relays and not digital.
Master Volume is normal Pot, nothing digital about that.

But everything runs through a 92kHz??? 24 bit???? AD and DA Converter near the Effects out or return.
So it's like having a digital effect processor in the loop of normal tube amp...

Where do you get your information from?

 

[rickenbacker198]

NOPE!!!

Main EQ is also done with relays and Resistors.
Same for Global Volume, Presence and Deep...

But everything runs through a 92kHz??? 24 bit???? AD and DA Converter near the Effects out or return.
So it's like having a digital effect processor in the loop of normal tube amp...

Hey I have no horse in this race - just stating what I see and hear.
Why are there no relays switching when the EQ deep / presence are adjusted? Also look at the internal design …

 

[valve]

Hey I have no horse in this race - just stating what I see and hear.
Why are there no relays switching when the EQ deep / presence are adjusted? Also look at the internal design …

I just checked, there is indeed no relay clicking with the controls you mentioned.
So maybe you are right or maybe it's digital Potentiometers, solid state relays (won't click) or other stuff.
I might take a peak inside (but it will not happen this month...)

 

[valve]

found a pic of the inside online:
source: https://www.gitarrebass.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Diezel-VHX-Innenleben.jpg
do you know what those ICs on the upper right are (just under the knobs)?
IO-Expanders?

 

[Leo Diezel]

The VHX is different but still sounds good in it’s own way , it can morph towards sounding like the other amps but still has its own inherent sound as well.

You could think of it like a switchable Diezel tube preamp + Digital filters/ EQ / FX + Diezel tube power amp.

From what I see this is how it works.

It has 3 physical tone stacks that switch by relays.
These 3 modes approximate or duplicate the actual tone stacks of 1 VH4 - 2 Herbert - 3 Hagen.
The gain is all tube, the gain adjustment, is done physically by relays + resistors as well.
After that it’s digital until the power amp.
When you adjust the secondary modes
Vintage, Early, Classic, Modern it’s a digital EQ filter to approximate those things.
The main EQ - Channel Volumes - Midcut and the Presence/ Deep are digital.
Global Volume , Presence and Deep are digital.

There is no load built into the amp , I’ve read that somewhere, but I don’t see it. If there is, it’s a small one and only for safety.
When you have no cab connected the power amp disconnects ( tubes stay lit but only on standby - transformers go cold) and a digital emulation of the power amp is applied to the line output.

The power amp, only used through the speaker outputs, has a single physical control, the master volume knob.

I’ll do a review eventually- it is a truly revolutionary product - but I need a couple of months with it to really form concrete opinions.

A couple things I will share, my opinion of course.
The stock Tung-Sol 12ax7's just don't do it in this amp, they are a buzzy fizzy mess with tons of artifacts.
It is tighter and more modern sounding than the OG Diezels.

Just wanted to clarify most of the investigative work:

VHX is just like all the modern Diezel lineup, so same circuit topology as Herbert MK3 and Hagen, gain pot is moved 1 stage upwards.

VHX has also additional gain like control on the VH4 earlier in the circuit, that's is activated using SHAPE and limited to a single position, like OG Diezel, so Shape 0 should be used if you need VH4/MK1 kind of dynamic response.

EQ loads are analog while the adjustment are done digitally so the tube sees the exact same impedance unless mids are at zero.

The modes are not for approximate other models, that's SHAPE, so if you want to have a similar response with the boost of VH4 you should use Shape 0 and Classic, however it won't be exact match at any VH4/VHX gain position

MODEs are tonestack variations where Vintage and Early was used in Diezels but 99 out of 100 do use Classic, so if you use different then Classic that may be why the response is different.

Presence and Deep are 100% analog, you can see the digital potentiometers on the back board.

 

[rickenbacker198]

Just wanted to clarify most of the investigative work:

VHX is just like all the modern Diezel lineup, so same circuit topology as Herbert MK3 and Hagen, gain pot is moved 1 stage upwards.

VHX has also additional gain like control on the VH4 earlier in the circuit, that's is activated using SHAPE and limited to a single position, like OG Diezel, so Shape 0 should be used if you need VH4/MK1 kind of dynamic response.

EQ loads are analog while the adjustment are done digitally so the tube sees the exact same impedance unless mids are at zero.

The modes are not for approximate other models, that's SHAPE, so if you want to have a similar response with the boost of VH4 you should use Shape 0 and Classic, however it won't be exact match at any VH4/VHX gain position

MODEs are tonestack variations where Vintage and Early was used in Diezels but 99 out of 100 do use Classic, so if you use different then Classic that may be why the response is different.

Presence and Deep are 100% analog, you can see the digital potentiometers on the back board.

Leo
Thank you for the information!
Some questions, points of clarification.

1) How are the Global Deep and Presence controls integrated ? If I set my Preset Deep at 1.0 and my Global Deep at 10 , is there that much extra range available in the analog part of the circuit? - so nothing happening in the digital realm except the storage of the settings?

2) Shape is a physical circuit change , 1 , 2 , 3 - we hear the relays clicking on the physical board, switching up the circuit to approximate
VH4 - Herbert - Hagen - This I see and hear on the board. Correct?

3) Mode is a tone stack change, ie. filtering, (vintage, early, classic, modern) is this done with DSP or physical resistors ?

4) When using no internal effects, the audio signal , simply passes as transparently as possible through the A/D and D/A conversion without any alteration?

5) The direct out - is there a simulation of the power section applied?

6) The channel volumes , these are digital volume controls happening in between the A/D and D/A?

I do want to say the VHX is really amazing, I'm not trying to uncover problems but simply understand how it works.
It's a marvel of engineering - such a small family company as Diezel to develop such a product!! ... I can not imagine the work that went ( and continues to go ) into it.
It's ability to shape the sound is completely unparalleled for a tube amp, using the internal digital GEQ allows unbelievable flexibility,
It can be set up to sound very full and fat at bedroom volumes, fuller and fatter than my OG Diezels and instantly recalled any time you want.

 

[valve]

1) How are the Global Deep and Presence controls integrated ? If I set my Preset Deep at 1.0 and my Global Deep at 10 , is there that much extra range available in the analog part of the circuit? - so nothing happening in the digital realm except the storage of the settings?

1) if you set your preset deep to 1.0 and the global deep to even only +0.05, nothing will happen since it's already the max. i already tested this, although with deep a 0.00 and global deep with -0.05 or more negative

 

[C0UNT3RP01NT]

...VHX is just like all the modern Diezel lineup, so same circuit topology as Herbert MK3 and Hagen, gain pot is moved 1 stage upwards.

VHX has also additional gain like control on the VH4 earlier in the circuit, that's is activated using SHAPE and limited to a single position, like OG Diezel, so Shape 0 should be used if you need VH4/MK1 kind of dynamic response.

...

The modes are not for approximate other models, that's SHAPE, so if you want to have a similar response with the boost of VH4 you should use Shape 0 and Classic, however it won't be exact match at any VH4/VHX gain position

So the VHX circuit/circuits are based on the Herbert MKIII and the Hagen? Maybe, I'm misinterpreting but does that mean the VH4 circuit itself is not in the VHX? There's no doubt that it's a badass amp that sounds great, but I am curious if I decide to get another Diezel, which would be most distinct from the VHX?

 

[rickenbacker198]

So the VHX circuit/circuits are based on the Herbert MKIII and the Hagen? Maybe, I'm misinterpreting but does that mean the VH4 circuit itself is not in the VHX? There's no doubt that it's a badass amp that sounds great, but I am curious if I decide to get another Diezel, which would be most distinct from the VHX?

Leo pointed out that the VHX, using Shape 0, has a single physical gain control early in the circuit, approximating the early gain control in the VH4 & Herbert MK1

 

[C0UNT3RP01NT]

Leo pointed out that the VHX, using Shape 0, has a single physical gain control early in the circuit, approximating the early gain control in the VH4 & Herbert MK1

I saw that. But he mentions it has the same circuit topology as the MKIII/Hagen? So is that implying there isn’t a VH4 circuit in there (just an approximation of one)? Or is that single gain control the only difference between the circuits?

I don’t really care too much. It’s a Diezel at the end of the day, and one that I’m quite happy with. But they do invite the question since it’s marketed as having all the Diezel tones.

 

[FLUXX]

...use Shape 0 and Classic, however it won't be exact match at any VH4/VHX gain position

Last year, I did a side by side test of my VHX Classic 0 vs my VH4 Ch3 with identical settings, through a Mesa 2x12 w V30s, using an amp switcher so I could make instantaneous switches, and I felt like the VHX Classic 0 nailed the VH4 Ch3 tone. The VHX had a slight bit more body, which I think is an improvement. I love the 40 different variations of tone in the VHX. It's so fun finding the right combinations for different songs.

 

[valve]

As i understand

I saw that. But he mentions it has the same circuit topology as the MKIII/Hagen? So is that implying there isn’t a VH4 circuit in there (just an approximation of one)? Or is that single gain control the only difference between the circuits?

I don’t really care too much. It’s a Diezel at the end of the day, and one that I’m quite happy with. But they do invite the question since it’s marketed as having all the Diezel tones.

as i understand it, with VHX on blue channel shape 0, it's the same preamp topology to the VH4 on ch3 and the gain control is moved a stage forward (as opposed to all other shapes).
But only with shape0 and the blue channel.

Green, yellow and red are more in line with the Hagen/herbert Mk3 from the get go (plus the bright option from the VH4).
I don't think this is a downside at all!