tonyr4music
New member
I'm interested on that Marvel 2 board, also on getting the original one on my 101B.
M
Man With Gas
New member
Hey Andy - I sent you an email re the mod availability, can you please respond.
Setneck
Member
Hi!
After a few weeks of trials I decided not to mod R19 resistor, as the cap bypassing 4th gain stage compressed the tone nearly insanely. Instead, I did two other mods:
1) removed C2 1.5uF tantalum cap in Structure circuit and soldered a switchable mod with Wima MKS2 polyester caps with values 1uF and 1.56uF (I used 1 & 0.56 in parallel). So I can have regular XTC 1.5uF value here, 1uF (which I like even more) and I can also switch off the mod, so I can use Structure circuit with a R43 resistor only in parallel with R11 V2A cathode resistor, having 2.35K overall resistance here (with no bypass cap). It is similar to Gear 2 in Splawn Quickrod (2.7K there).
2) removed Marvel mod and soldered to R12 resistor a switchable mod with bare 0.68uF cap and with a combination of 3.9K resistor and 0.68uF cap in parallel. That second position gives me 2.8K resistance in V3A’s cathode (opposite to 10K regular resistance – so hotter bias of V2B triode) and it is similar to what was done here in 20th Ann XTC, where R12 is 2.7K with 0.47uF bypass cap attached. I tried 0.47uF cap here, but the tone was to bright and thin for me. As 1uF was too bassy I have found 0.68uF great here.
I like the most to play a combination of 1uF in Structure and bare 0.68uF in R12 mod. But with hotter pickups and in higher volumes the amp may squeal using Red Channel (I keep my Red volume below 10 o’clock and Red gain below 9 o’clock). If so, I’d suggest to switch off the Structure mod and play with bare resistor in V2A cathode and use R12 mod to hotrod the tone. To my ears bypassing the R12 make a sound more open and cutting thru than Structure circuit itself. But please note that R12 mod affects Red Channel only and when You switch off Structure bypass cap the Blue Channel will have less gain, which of course You can compensate cranking up the Blue gain knob.
I tried other caps in those mods. 150 Mallory polyester cap sounded a bit backed-off, very vintage and not so aggressive, so better IMO for bluesy and soft rock tones. Small electrolytic cap sounded too boomy. Generally I have an impression that Wima caps are very in-front sounding, smoothing the tone also. So I use them in all my mods.
I also modded C3 cap which bypasses 1st gain stage for clean channel. 101B has 22uF cap here and in 20th Ann XTC the cap was changed to 1uF. I did the same and clean tone became more open and piano-like. But I think of trying bigger cap here, say 6.8uF or even 10uF in a future as 1uF with single-coil pickups may sound too thin.
Regards, Andy
After a few weeks of trials I decided not to mod R19 resistor, as the cap bypassing 4th gain stage compressed the tone nearly insanely. Instead, I did two other mods:
1) removed C2 1.5uF tantalum cap in Structure circuit and soldered a switchable mod with Wima MKS2 polyester caps with values 1uF and 1.56uF (I used 1 & 0.56 in parallel). So I can have regular XTC 1.5uF value here, 1uF (which I like even more) and I can also switch off the mod, so I can use Structure circuit with a R43 resistor only in parallel with R11 V2A cathode resistor, having 2.35K overall resistance here (with no bypass cap). It is similar to Gear 2 in Splawn Quickrod (2.7K there).
2) removed Marvel mod and soldered to R12 resistor a switchable mod with bare 0.68uF cap and with a combination of 3.9K resistor and 0.68uF cap in parallel. That second position gives me 2.8K resistance in V3A’s cathode (opposite to 10K regular resistance – so hotter bias of V2B triode) and it is similar to what was done here in 20th Ann XTC, where R12 is 2.7K with 0.47uF bypass cap attached. I tried 0.47uF cap here, but the tone was to bright and thin for me. As 1uF was too bassy I have found 0.68uF great here.
I like the most to play a combination of 1uF in Structure and bare 0.68uF in R12 mod. But with hotter pickups and in higher volumes the amp may squeal using Red Channel (I keep my Red volume below 10 o’clock and Red gain below 9 o’clock). If so, I’d suggest to switch off the Structure mod and play with bare resistor in V2A cathode and use R12 mod to hotrod the tone. To my ears bypassing the R12 make a sound more open and cutting thru than Structure circuit itself. But please note that R12 mod affects Red Channel only and when You switch off Structure bypass cap the Blue Channel will have less gain, which of course You can compensate cranking up the Blue gain knob.
I tried other caps in those mods. 150 Mallory polyester cap sounded a bit backed-off, very vintage and not so aggressive, so better IMO for bluesy and soft rock tones. Small electrolytic cap sounded too boomy. Generally I have an impression that Wima caps are very in-front sounding, smoothing the tone also. So I use them in all my mods.
I also modded C3 cap which bypasses 1st gain stage for clean channel. 101B has 22uF cap here and in 20th Ann XTC the cap was changed to 1uF. I did the same and clean tone became more open and piano-like. But I think of trying bigger cap here, say 6.8uF or even 10uF in a future as 1uF with single-coil pickups may sound too thin.
Regards, Andy
Y
yingxuy
New member
The funny matter is " XTC mod" Work in most other amps. Setneck already well similarly mentioned his Marshall 6100. But there' Again several hundred other.
Setneck
Member
Nothing magic here actually . Every amp works basically the same way. So, if You have bypass cap You can easily attach the wires in place of it and also attach them to the switch with a few caps or cap-resistor combos . Works great in every amp 
Regards, Andy
. Every amp works basically the same way. So, if You have bypass cap You can easily attach the wires in place of it and also attach them to the switch with a few caps or cap-resistor combos . Works great in every amp Regards, Andy
A
_actual time_
Member
i did this mod yesterday, w/ a DPDT to switch between a 0.68 uF cap, a 1.0 uF cap, and stock/no mod.
pic added, next to my modified Marvel with a lower cap value for the 'Cameron' mod:
it's definitely an increase in gain and compression, plus the added upper mid bite or snarl. it sounds cool on my Red channel, which i run rather compressed anyway.
on my Blue, which i run more open, i'm not sure i like it overall. i like the added bite, but it makes my Blue sound a lot more compressed, especially unboosted. not AC/DC anymore; more Randy Rhoads.
(i do have the unboosted cap C224 removed, so my unboosted is brighter than stock.)
i need to try it in Plexi mode. that could be its best use. in that mode, the extra gain probably helps, and i bet the extra bite and snarl sounds great there.
pic added, next to my modified Marvel with a lower cap value for the 'Cameron' mod:
it's definitely an increase in gain and compression, plus the added upper mid bite or snarl. it sounds cool on my Red channel, which i run rather compressed anyway.
on my Blue, which i run more open, i'm not sure i like it overall. i like the added bite, but it makes my Blue sound a lot more compressed, especially unboosted. not AC/DC anymore; more Randy Rhoads.
(i do have the unboosted cap C224 removed, so my unboosted is brighter than stock.)
i need to try it in Plexi mode. that could be its best use. in that mode, the extra gain probably helps, and i bet the extra bite and snarl sounds great there.
Setneck
Member
Had an similar impression at first time after I did that mod. Found it interesting, played it for some time. Also my amp wasn't modded much then. AFAIR the mods of that time were Dagnall D2668 output transformer and 2k7//1uf 2nd gain stage (but not fixed as it is now).
But the main reason I deleted it was Blue Channel. As You may not make R19 mod switchable You got to either like it in general or delete it. The worst thing for me was, that R19 mod added even more compression to the very compressed tone XTC has, and that added snarl, which is definitely there, was covered by that additional compression. Even lowering the gain wasn't helpful. So chugga-chugga thing on Red was like "clouded", covered, You could barely hear the notes. Everything was sloppy and carpeted. And Blue lost bite and clarity.
So for me it is better to boost the gain with Marvel Mod than with R19 Mod. Both mods add compression but as Marvel Mod bypasses earlier gain stage You have more control on the compression with the gain knob. I mean - lowering gain while bypassing R12 3rd gain stage resistor have bigger impact on the compression than it is with 4rd stage R19 resistor. At the time I had both mods present so I could compare it and like the R12 mod control possibilities more.
Also, with Marvel Mod You interfere only in Red Channel. We all love Blue Channel (as it is basically JMP 1959) and if anyone doesn't like anything in XTC it is Red.
The only place where R19 Mod was really cool was Plexi Mode, as it makes XTC basically Low input 1959 JMP. But I don't use it at all.
Regards, Andy
But the main reason I deleted it was Blue Channel. As You may not make R19 mod switchable You got to either like it in general or delete it. The worst thing for me was, that R19 mod added even more compression to the very compressed tone XTC has, and that added snarl, which is definitely there, was covered by that additional compression. Even lowering the gain wasn't helpful. So chugga-chugga thing on Red was like "clouded", covered, You could barely hear the notes. Everything was sloppy and carpeted. And Blue lost bite and clarity.
So for me it is better to boost the gain with Marvel Mod than with R19 Mod. Both mods add compression but as Marvel Mod bypasses earlier gain stage You have more control on the compression with the gain knob. I mean - lowering gain while bypassing R12 3rd gain stage resistor have bigger impact on the compression than it is with 4rd stage R19 resistor. At the time I had both mods present so I could compare it and like the R12 mod control possibilities more.
Also, with Marvel Mod You interfere only in Red Channel. We all love Blue Channel (as it is basically JMP 1959) and if anyone doesn't like anything in XTC it is Red
. The only place where R19 Mod was really cool was Plexi Mode, as it makes XTC basically Low input 1959 JMP. But I don't use it at all
.Regards, Andy
A
_actual time_
Member
yep--that's what i'm finding so far. i will play it for a while and see.Setneck":3rvfkyrf said:
but i did make mine switchable--a DPDT on/off/on. so my middle position on the switch is no mod, and i can compare.
i am curious to hear more snarl on the Blue channel, if possible, but without more compression. but that may not be possible.
what do you think now about this mod's sound?
especially the bare 0.68 uF cap on R12. how does that make Red sound, to you?
on my Marvel mod, i never use the Cameron setting. so i'm thinking maybe i'll try a mod that is post-2004 gain, pre-2004 gain, and one of your cap settings here....
Setneck
Member
Well, I wasn't too precise here_actual time_":32flz7m8 said:
. I know that You made it dpdt, but what I meant was that You can't make it switchable between channels, that it would be present only in Red. If You engage a cap it affects both Red and Blue.It is not possible with R19 mod. If You want more bite from Blue You would have to mod the Structure and replace R43 4k75 resistor with 6k2 one. That would give ~2k7 total resistance in 2nd stage, more upper mids and less bass. That mod will obviously affect Red too, as both channels share that gain stage._actual time_":32flz7m8 said:
The tone was interesting, by adding 3k9 in parallel You actually remove cold 10k gain stage. It made the tone noticeably brighter and biting, but the amp squealed like a pig_actual time_":32flz7m8 said:
. Maybe noise gate would help, but I haven't had any at the time. Increasing stage bias requires tweaks in voltage dividers for lowering interstage gain, and I didn't want to dig that deep in my amp.Bare .68uF gave similar result as R19 mod. Compression and a bit unclear tone. But You must try for Yourself.
[/quote]_actual time_":32flz7m8 said:
Try .68uF MKT1813 cap here instead of 1uF in "Cameron" voicing. That's what I did in my MM mod. Clearer tone, currently I like it very much. CP Vishay MKT1813 caps are even more bright than NOS ERO/Roederstein I use, so the result would be interesting.
I like "Cameron" voicing, because it adds less compression than "Factory" mod and gives exactly that amount of kick in gain that I need for the tone of my modded amp. Where, by raising cathode resistance for 1st and 2nd gain stages - therefore lowering its bias - its gain was lowered too. But 1uF cap muddies the tone, .68uF is perfect to my ears.
Regards, Andy
A
_actual time_
Member
interesting!Setneck":6ih8ftsc said:
the reason i don't like the Cameron mod is that it's looser in the low end. i use my Red for playing hard rock and metal, so i need the low end tight, for palm-mutes. the Cameron mod sounds great for leads but not so good for me for tight low end.
would you say that your 0.68 uF Cameron has low end feel similar to the 1.0 uF Cameron? or not as loose? if you hear it similar to how i do.
i end up using the post-2004 gain the most, because it sounds tighter. i just run the gain knob low and never use the Boost.
Setneck
Member
"Stock" Cameron voicing indeed may sound a bit too loose in low-end. Lowering the cap makes it boosted more in upper frequencies, which helps tightening the bottom. I like post2004 voicing too, but it has more compression and gain boost that I need. You don't use boost, I use it, which itself gives me certain kick in gain. You got to compensate disengaged boost, I don't. So, with boost engaged modded Cameron is enough for me_actual time_":rcmq6yvz said:
.The feel is a bit different, as there's less bottom. But the character is similar, it's simply more present and cutting, not loosing warmth._actual time_":rcmq6yvz said:
Regards, Andy
A
_actual time_
Member
i played the R19 mod some more today, and it was cool.
on the Red channel, i immediately turned the Marvel mod to pre-2004 gain, the lower gain. the R19 mod with post-2004 higher gain was way too much compression.
i played mostly on unboosted. the R19 extra compression when on unboosted was quite acceptable. it sounded sort of like a half-boost--a bit more gain, but not as much as turning on the Boost. the extra upper-mid snarl added nice bite. but it did take away or cover up some of the 'woody' Bogner lower mids.
it was hard to compare the tone exactly because the gain increases too. my Blue unboosted normally has sort of a Joe Walsh / Joe Perry level of gain. with the R19, either 0.68 uF or 1.0 uF, the gain was more like AC/DC.
my Red unboosted, on pre-2004 gain, has a medium-gain, not quite enough gain as 80s hard rock. with the R19 mod, the extra snarl and gain was quite nice for 80s hard rock. although palm muted long stretches on the A or E string, like Bark at the Moon, sounded higher and more jangly than my usual no R19 & Red post-2004; not as much low end thickness. (but the post-2004 Red gain is always punchier in the lows for me, so that could have been the cause; not the R19 mod.)
i played it less time on Boosted Blue and Red. Boosted Blue & R19 had more bite but started to get as compressed and chunky as normal Red. a nice sound, but not as unique as normal Blue. Boosted Red & R19 was quite compressed; sort of like post-2004 Red but not as much, with more bite.
so as a 'half-boost' sort of option between unboosted and Boost, with more bite than the usual Bogner sound, it was cool and sounded good. not amazing, but a nice option to have.