Friedman Vintage Plexi

Racerxrated said:
Well, his preamp section isn’t, I see Mustards. In mine, 8 of the 0.022 were ODs. Big difference than just 2.
And, no offense but your clone that sounds spot on? You used vintage Mustards.
See what I mean? Change those Mustards out for ZoSos or other modern caps and I’d bet it won’t sound near as good.
Or, maybe it will? Just for fun, try it and see….🤟
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Yeah my clone has NOS 2n2 for the Bright channel but I didn’t use any NOS 22n due to cost. The tone stack were 22n modern Synergy Royal Mustards but the PI input is an 18n NOS Mustard. Then the outputs are 27n NOS Mustards. Those changes are subtle and sort of counter each other; tiny bit tighter PI but then you give it back in the outputs.

All those caps are or were reasonable from Valvestorm.

I still think something had to be wrong with those ODs you pulled. That shouldn’t affect gain very much if at all. That ‘70 Super PA I have had the big grey tubular Radio Spares caps. They all measured around 35nF and the amp didn’t sound very good. So I gave it a similar treatment as my clone and it sounds killer now. Better than the stock ‘74 (all Mustards) I had at the same time. Different voltages tho, the ‘70 PA has almost exact same 500+vdc HT as my clone. The ‘74 was 460-ish (which is allegedly where Ed’s amp ran when at normal/non-variac’d AC voltage IIRC, Dave mentioned in some Tonetalk).
 
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Racerxrated said:
Gotcha; I can see that.
When I bought it, and I only saw a few mustards I thought it was re wired non stock. I posted pics on the Marshall forum and they confirmed that the yellow Phillips ‘chicklets’ are indeed stock; used mostly in 72. So that’s the term I went with lol.
Lego caps are the red ones used in later 70s/80s 2203/4s. Hopefully I have that term right 😂
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I see people listing those as chicklets so they might be. Never seen a Chicklet look like that, maybe a Starburst though. 😁

Yeah legos to me are the hard plastic rectangular deals.
 
SpiderWars said:
Yeah my clone has NOS 2n2 for the Bright channel but I didn’t use any NOS 22n due to cost. The tone stack were 22n modern Synergy Royal Mustards but the PI input is an 18n NOS Mustard. Then the outputs are 27n NOS Mustards. Those changes are subtle and sort of counter each other; tiny bit tighter PI but then you give it back in the outputs.

All those caps are or were reasonable from Valvestorm.

I still think something had to be wrong with those ODs you pulled. That shouldn’t affect gain very much if at all. That ‘70 Super PA I have had the big grey tubular Radio Spares caps. They all measured around 35nF and the amp didn’t sound very good. So I gave it a similar treatment as my clone and it sounds killer now. Better than the stock ‘74 (all Mustards) I had at the same time. Different voltages tho, the ‘70 PA has almost exact same 500+vdc HT as my clone. The ‘74 was 460-ish (which is allegedly where Ed’s amp ran when at normal/non-variac’d AC voltage IIRC, Dave mentioned in some Tonetalk).
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It did seem very clean until WAY up with bright ch vol; and once I changed to the yellow caps I felt it gained up quicker on the vol. But the big difference was the overall sound...my 72 Trem is very 3D, rich sounding and once those yellow caps got in the 50 sounded almost dead nuts identical to the 100T.
Clearly an improvement.
 
A loop indeed doesn't work well in a NMV amp. But isn't it still better than using the effects in front ? In a loop, the effects only distort because of the PI overdrive, whereas in front, you got the preamp overdrive+ the PI overdrive.
 
Cless357 said:
A loop indeed doesn't work well in a NMV amp. But isn't it still better than using the effects in front ? In a loop, the effects only distort because of the PI overdrive, whereas in front, you got the preamp overdrive+ the PI overdrive.
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Best way IMO to run effects in a NMV is, grab a line out box, and get a separate power amp/cabs(stereo cab, or 2 cabs). Or a Fryette PS which will act as a loop/re amping box.
 
Cless357 said:
A loop indeed doesn't work well in a NMV amp. But isn't it still better than using the effects in front ? In a loop, the effects only distort because of the PI overdrive, whereas in front, you got the preamp overdrive+ the PI overdrive.
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Yeah, if you’re using one as an edge of breakup amp and pedals and volume roll off get you everywhere else, a loop will probably be fine.
 
Don’t know the circuit explicitly but I had a stock Origin 20 (Pre phase inverter master) and even with the master cranked, and the amp driving pretty hard a delay in it’s loop was just fine. I guess if the loop is before that Master it would make sense But the repeats on the delay sounded like the overall gain of the amp which at that point was hitting the P.I. Pretty hard so maybe not. Is there active buffering available on a loop where it adjust on the fly depending on what levels it senses?
 
Cless357 said:
A loop indeed doesn't work well in a NMV amp. But isn't it still better than using the effects in front ? In a loop, the effects only distort because of the PI overdrive, whereas in front, you got the preamp overdrive+ the PI overdrive.
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I would imagine Dave is using the PS2 since you are hearing delay in that NAMM clip.
 
Cless357 said:
A loop indeed doesn't work well in a NMV amp. But isn't it still better than using the effects in front ? In a loop, the effects only distort because of the PI overdrive, whereas in front, you got the preamp overdrive+ the PI overdrive.
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Yep the preamp provides some drive, and the PI/power tubes the rest. This topic comes up a bit so I might start a separate thread actually.
 
Are there any clips of the amp directly into a 4x12 while using a mic to record and no IR’s? I’m very curious how it will sound in real life use with the need of a attenuator or power soak. The PPIV master kills the controls at lower bedroom volumes. I’m curious if Friedman’s version of the PPIV master is the same way.
 
psychodave said:
Are there any clips of the amp directly into a 4x12 while using a mic to record and no IR’s? I’m very curious how it will sound in real life use with the need of a attenuator or power soak. The PPIV master kills the controls at lower bedroom volumes. I’m curious if Friedman’s version of the PPIV master is the same way.
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Yeah, bye bye presence control which is pretty important for a plexi.
 
skoora said:
Yeah, bye bye presence control which is pretty important for a plexi.
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Are you saying it has no presence control?

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I thought Dave had been saying "sonic clone" since obviously there are some circuit changes with the variac switch and master volume. Either way it sounds amazing in the clips so far. I use a FX loop live so my only interest in an amp like this live would be for recording and can't justify the price but I sure would love to spend some time with one someday. Can't wait for the comparisons with the SL67s.
 
analogsystem said:
I thought Dave had been saying "sonic clone" since obviously there are some circuit changes with the variac switch and master volume. Either way it sounds amazing in the clips so far. I use a FX loop live so my only interest in an amp like this live would be for recording and can't justify the price but I sure would love to spend some time with one someday. Can't wait for the comparisons with the SL67s.
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To me it is between this, the SUHR Mark II and the Tone King Royalist Mark III. The Royalist has the best price point from what I can tell. They are all doing the same thing, variac I'd just buy for 80$. Dave has mentioned you don't even need to bias the output tubes hotter, it just sounds a bit better.
 
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