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VonBonfire
Well-known member
My mistake. So 7dB is not quite doubling the volume? I've never seen a 20 watt amp with enough clean headroom to work with a loud drummer. I just think most drummers are complete lightweights nowadays.
7704A
Well-known member
Correct. Per my math, it's about 1.7 times the volume. I'm not entirely certain of my math though, I'm literally just learning how to go from dB differences to loudness differences. The section of Signals, Sound, and Sensation that I'm going from:
My math:
Edit: For the curious, that would put a 100W amp only about 1.26 times as loud as a 50W amp.
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SpiderWars
Well-known member
This is just my opinion, and this coming from an engineer. All that talk about 'only 3db louder...only 6db louder...etc".
Stand in front of a 70's 100W Marshall and then stand in front of one of those 20W amps! Yes the 20W amps are loud but the pants are not a flappin.
There is no 'only' in the difference. You can feel it.
Stand in front of a 70's 100W Marshall and then stand in front of one of those 20W amps! Yes the 20W amps are loud but the pants are not a flappin.
There is no 'only' in the difference. You can feel it.
BlueParfait
Well-known member
There's also the entire rabbit hole of how the purported wattage was measured. At which THD, etc
Granted it's not really useful for end users, but it's fun to know
Soundstorm
Well-known member
The studio series Marshalls kick ass. I’ve had the SV20 and SC20, and will probably try out the Mini Jube at one point.
I’ve owned big boy Marshalls from 60’s plexis, to 70s and 80s, and they really knocked it out of the park with those little heads where so many other companies have tried and failed to condense the sound of those classic amps into a smaller format.
They were never meant to go toe to toe with the big iron heads in a live venue. That’s why they’re called the STUDIO series. It’s all about getting those classic tones at more manageable record-friendly volumes.
I’ve owned big boy Marshalls from 60’s plexis, to 70s and 80s, and they really knocked it out of the park with those little heads where so many other companies have tried and failed to condense the sound of those classic amps into a smaller format.
They were never meant to go toe to toe with the big iron heads in a live venue. That’s why they’re called the STUDIO series. It’s all about getting those classic tones at more manageable record-friendly volumes.
7704A
Well-known member
Well, I guess that brings up the question of why the pants flap and/or if that is a good proxy for "loud". Don't get me wrong, I like pants-flapping amps, punch, etc., but I don't know how good of a measure it is. I was in church service the other day and my shirt was flapping whenever the bass player hit the right notes despite things not being anywhere near a cranked Marshall's volume. I could also see the backdrop sheet vibrating. If your point is that volume differences/ratios doesn't account for other things like whether the amp punches you in the chest or flaps your pants though, I think we can agree on that.This is just my opinion, and this coming from an engineer. All that talk about 'only 3db louder...only 6db louder...etc".
Stand in front of a 70's 100W Marshall and then stand in front of one of those 20W amps! Yes the 20W amps are loud but the pants are not a flappin.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
To me it's measured by the fact that no 20 watt amp ever will have the clean headroom to keep up with a loud drummer. If you're playing rock music and your drummer isn't louder than a 20 watt amp then your drummer should be fired. If you load it with really efficient speakers you can ALMOST get it there but you'll still be buried during solos and buried beneath a guy who brought more amp. Might be ok for a night of dirty rhythm playing. My other beef is little 6v6 and EL84 amps run hard are a failure waiting to happen if you gig often.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Really my point was that numbers are just numbers...stand in front of a 100W and then a 20W and then you'll experience the only thing that matters. What it sounds and feels like in real life. It's not a small difference. It just isn't.
skoora
Well-known member
Standing in front of a cranked 20 watter you go, wow, that’s cookin’. Standing in front of a cranked 100 watt, metal panel will make you feel like your DNA is being rearranged.
7704A
Well-known member
I think we're on the same page then.*
*elision of pedantry about methodology of experience-based conclusions.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
A 20W is yelling at you, a 100W is punching you in the face, a 150W+ is kicking you in the nuts.
BlueParfait
Well-known member
Yeah I accidentally bypassed my attenuator while standing right in front of my 5150ii using EVH's stadium settings once
Never again.
Never again.
7704A
Well-known member
What's 200W+, or at that point is it all the same? Bucketlist item is to build a 300W+ amp...A 20W is yelling at you, a 100W is punching you in the face, a 150W+ is kicking you in the nuts.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
I A/B'ed my 6550 loaded plexi against a triple rec a buddy owned once. Both with the corresponding cabs. I buried that triple rec. It wasn't even close. I've never hear a louder amp than that thing tbh but never got to stand in front of a major or a Hiwatt.
LPMojoGL
Well-known member
The Dokken tone, or maybe more the playing, was on point in that clip.
I had and enjoyed the SC20. I've read people's posts saying it's too loud, or that it doesn't hang with the big watters.
It's not too loud, at all. If you can't get a decent tone out of it at house volumes, it's your fault. It sounds like a good JCM, but a 20w version, meaning more mids, less low and highs and volume than a 50w/100w. It still rocks.
I wanted to buy the Sv20 the first time I played it. I've had 7 4 holers, and it sounds like a good one. Don't care for the build quality, but for $800-$1g used, it's OK. Build wise, it's no Germino, Suhr, Metropoulos, Ceriatone, Rockett...
But it brings that sound at a lower volume, at a good price and in a small package.
I had and enjoyed the SC20. I've read people's posts saying it's too loud, or that it doesn't hang with the big watters.
It's not too loud, at all. If you can't get a decent tone out of it at house volumes, it's your fault. It sounds like a good JCM, but a 20w version, meaning more mids, less low and highs and volume than a 50w/100w. It still rocks.
I wanted to buy the Sv20 the first time I played it. I've had 7 4 holers, and it sounds like a good one. Don't care for the build quality, but for $800-$1g used, it's OK. Build wise, it's no Germino, Suhr, Metropoulos, Ceriatone, Rockett...
But it brings that sound at a lower volume, at a good price and in a small package.
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
A Twin outdoor is an entirely different thing than nearly any club or room that gets regularly played in. So far you're the only person whos responded.....I've been on a 12+ gigs per month run since last May with my Wizard MC25 and not once, including outdoors at Ft Stevens have I gotten close to opening that thing wide open, and its freaking loud and owns its sonic slice at the regular volume I play. At the point that its chest thumping everyone is telling me (or anybody else) to turn the fuck down hahaha
7704A
Well-known member
What cab, speakers, etc?
BlueParfait
Well-known member
Briman24
Well-known member
I guess it's a master volume thing. Out of all the ampa i have owned, only 2 were non master volume. The 1987x and sv20. They are the only 2 amps that i needed an attenuator. Never needed it for all my splawns and other marshalls. My jcm 800's, slx, dsl's, quick rod, pro stock and competition all sound great a bedroom volume. They obviously sounded better opened up when wife wasn't home lol
romanianreaper
Well-known member
Oh yeah sorry man. I reread that and get what you are saying. I might have to get an sv20 down the road. I almost got one but when reviews were saying they were too loud for home use, I ended up getting the Silver Jubillee. I love that amp as well though.