Now this is about politics and Canada

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Al Chapo said:
You're a bright enough guy to understand how trade deficits work, don't be purposely obtuse. Nobody imports products to help a bro out, you import what you cannot locally procure. You export your excess. Apparently you rely on us more than we rely on you for trade, and on the other end of that, clearly we need you more than you need us fiscally as a result. You guys love capitalism, figure it out.

I don't think you'll find many of us saying we have the border down to a science. Anybody crossing from Canada in a legal means will be dealing with your enforcement, not ours. The same applies on the other side. Should we be doing more to prevent illegal crossing? Yes. As should the US. Want to wager a guess where most drugs and restricted weapons enter Canada?

There was no discussion before the 25% tariffs talk popped up, fyi. It's hard to predict a wildly unpredictable person. This is nothing more than an attempt to be a hardline businessman. It was fentanyl, then it was immigrants, then it was made up deficit numbers, then it was dairy tariffs. Maybe we can reach a new agreement for Trump to Welch on, who knows. I think most Canadians are pretty happy to start looking elsewhere for solutions though.
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See my posts #55 & 58 and @Floyd Eye post #57.

shar-vell Dan said:
Tairffs are TAXES. Who's the TAX & SPEND ASSHOLES NOW ?
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This right here pretty much negates other countries getting all pissy about tariffs and the arguments they're trying to use. The importer pays the tariff not the exporter. And generally speaking that cost is passed to the consumer. It's not like Canada (or any other country) is being charged more to sell their goods. Why should they give a shit if we cahrge a 10% or 1000% tariff? US companies could still import the same amount and just charge US customers more for products. Nothing would change for other countries.

What it boils down to is other countries are getting upset the US is wanting to bring back production of thing's that have been outsourced and stimulate our own economy. The US doesn't want to have to rely on other countries for basic needs.
 
Al Chapo said:
Nobody imports products to help a bro out, you import what you cannot locally procure
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Floyd Eye said:
Do you have a list of stuff Canada has that the US needs ?

You understand that one of the primary points of tariffs is to induce people to manufacture and buy and sell products made by its own citizens rather than outsourcing it to foreign countries right ?
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Findthetone1 said:
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You guys just importing all this stuff and hoarding it in a warehouse to keep Canada relevant or what?

To be fair, you could procure a good chunk of it at a higher expense than even the tariffs. That is the only outcome that makes theoretical sense - but, it still doesn't make economical sense. It's mighty hard to be isolationist and globalist at the same time, y'know.
 
67mike said:
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I can tell you that we are in no need of oil and natural gas from Canada. I live in the gulf south where a good chunk of states' economies are invested in that industry. Except during a hurricane and rigs have to shut down there's absolutely no shortages. And that's not counting what the US can get from Alaska. So again, the US may import from Canada to not use its own reserves, but the US certainly doesn't need it.

As far the auto/machinery industry, it's the same thing as oil and gas. We don't need those things from Canada. Production moved out the US to Canada, but that doesn't mean we are incapable of producing these items. In fact it's an industry the US/Trump is attempting to revitalize.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
See my posts #55 & 58 and @Floyd Eye post #57.


This right here pretty much negates other countries getting all pissy about tariffs and the arguments they're trying to use. The importer pays the tariff not the exporter. And generally speaking that cost is passed to the consumer. It's not like Canada (or any other country) is being charged more to sell their goods. Why should they give a shit if we cahrge a 10% or 1000% tariff? US companies could still import the same amount and just charge US customers more for products. Nothing would change for other countries.

What it boils down to is other countries are getting upset the US is wanting to bring back production of thing's that have been outsourced and stimulate our own economy. The US doesn't want to have to rely on other countries for basic needs.
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This is important. What Canada and other countries are actually upset about is us making their products less attractive to American consumers financially than our own domestic products. Guess what ? There is no inherent right to have access to our market, much less to have access AND an advantage over American manufacturers.
 
Even f we tariffed Canada the same amount as they do to the US, a completely 100 percent even deal, there would still be whiny canadians and lefty meat cutters who were unhappy. The larger white world outside of the USA have become like a perpetual welfare case, entitled to someone else's money. The end.
 
Al Chapo said:
You guys just importing all this stuff and hoarding it in a warehouse to keep Canada relevant or what?

To be fair, you could procure a good chunk of it at a higher expense than even the tariffs. That is the only outcome that makes theoretical sense - but, it still doesn't make economical sense. It's mighty hard to be isolationist and globalist at the same time, y'know.
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What? :confused:
 
Thumbpicker said:
What you just said there is effectively what I think. Positive changes in terms of domestic policy getting rid of wokeness etc. Trimming wasteful and illegitimate mad foreign aid programs (like condoms to Afghanistan etc) and redundant government departments and expenditure - for sure that absolutely has to be done. Addressing your budget deficit - very important. Getting European countries and even Australia to spend a more appropriate amount on defence - I think that's a good thing.

However the part of foreign policy I'm annoyed about is tariffs on allies where it's not reciprocal. We don't charge tariffs and yet are copping tariffs now on steel and aluminium and are getting constant threats of more tariffs despite the US having a trade surplus with us. It gives me the absolute shits. We should kick America out of Pine gap, cancel the massive nuclear submarine order we put in and give the contract back to the French and stuff the US worldwide intelligence gathering capability as a punishment and kick the American ambassador out. No one respects weakness. Hit back hard.
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It's interesting, I've always considered myself a liberal. Registered Democrat for 35 years until this year. The goalposts have moved however. I've advocated for universal care, universal income, I believe abortion is between you and your god, I worked for a civil rights law firm, etc. The left in our country has gone so far left, I'm considered a conservative now.

I think once manufacturing ramps up in the US, we will see some different tariff agreements. Currently, the US manufacturing sector needs a head start if it's going to compete with anyone. We have outsourced everything for decades, including vital sectors of our industry that affect our national defense and wellbeing.
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
Wow, seems like everyone is throwing temper tantrums over not being able to continue to take advantage of us anymore.
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Most of the western world outside of the US has entitlement mentality right down the average citizen. Pay our tariffs, but don't you dare tariff us. Pay for the defense of Ukraine and western europe and you're evil if you ask us to pay our fair share. The founders would've recommended letting Hitler and Stalin fight over Europe. I also think that was the route we should've taken. They are now a monkey on our back and expect our perpetual intervention.
 
VonBonfire said:
Most of the western world outside of the US has entitlement mentality right down the average citizen. Pay our tariffs, but don't you dare tariff us. Pay for the defense of Ukraine and western europe and you're evil if you ask us to pay our fair share. The founders would've recommended letting Hitler and Stalin fight over Europe. I also think that was the route we should've taken. They are now a monkey on our back and expect our perpetual intervention.
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Honestly it seems that the whole of the world have been entitled for a long time. Including us with expecting cheap imported goods to the point of closing down most local manufacturing. I have no issues with fair and balanced trade, but we've been bleeding ourselves to support others for too long and this is what it's come to. It's necessary for both short and long term survival. Really doesn't matter who became President, all of this needs to happen to avoid near term bankruptcy as a country. It should have started a long time ago. Because it didn't it's just going to be more of a shock value because we have to clean up decades worth of messes in a short period of time.

I take no issue with other countries or their people, but at the same time my kids and theirs futures are more important to me than boosting the economies of others that are only concerned with their own comforts while not being equal. It's ultimately our mess to clean up, and there will be hardships on all sides, but there won't be any greatness left of anyone if we all continue down this path that is not and has not been sustainable. We've been heading for third world status and if that happens it happens to the entirety of the west.
 
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