Simon Dorn
Well-known member
Here we go:
skoora
Well-known member
Maybe I’m just in a mood but find it really hard to give a shit about it. First, it feels like it’s way too late and is just for nostalgia, man cave jams now and 2nd, Isn’t the Helios meant to cover this (or would you hear and feel a difference between the two). Feel like I’d still rather have an Ecstasy and just crank the a presence on it. Maybe there’s a niche market for AIC tribute bands that only play Facelift…but weren’t the rhythm tracks mostly a Bassman head with a tube driver?
I think this was used on Social D’s self titled (So Far Away etc). Could be fun to nail that tone. But I actually got something super close to that with a 34 loaded Mark V, Ch 2, Edge using a Junior anyway.
Anyhoo….
I think this was used on Social D’s self titled (So Far Away etc). Could be fun to nail that tone. But I actually got something super close to that with a 34 loaded Mark V, Ch 2, Edge using a Junior anyway.
Anyhoo….
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
Well, I gotta say, we don't need yet another MArshall BUT you listen to this back to back with any of the Friedman offerings and this one snarls more and has more teeth/rawness. So..... release that in a pedal format IR box Bogner. I like the sound of this amp.
PurityS.L.G
Well-known member
The Helios is Plexi based while this is 800 basedMaybe I’m just in a mood but find it really hard to give a shit about it. First, it feels like it’s way too late and is just for nostalgia, man cave jams now and 2nd, Isn’t the Helios meant to cover this (or would you hear and feel a difference between the two). Feel like I’d still rather have an Ecstasy and just crank the a presence on it. Maybe there’s a niche market for AIC tribute bands that only play Facelift…but weren’t the rhythm tracks mostly a Bassman head with a tube driver?
I think this was used on Social D’s self titled (So Far Away etc). Could be fun to nail that tone. But I actually got something super close to that with a 34 loaded Mark V, Ch 2, Edge using a Junior anyway.
Anyhoo….
RaceU4her
Well-known member
Simon Dorn
Well-known member
I also found this one:
Simon Dorn
Well-known member
Here's the latest Cantrell Rig Rundown, in case anybody missed it:
psychodave
Well-known member
Not a fan of that YT page. Will not watch. Same with Thorn. 
glpg80
Well-known member
This summarizes it very clearly IMO.
It still seems lower gain than my XTC especially blue channel boosted.
I’d like to see someone do a shootout of the Helios vs snorkler vs shiva
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Chris6870
Well-known member
Yay another $5,000 Marshall.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
The specifics of the tone on Facelift are lost to time and bad memories at this point. Cliffs Notes:
Jerry has said numerous times dating back to the ‘90s that a Bogner modded Marshall (“Snorkler”) was used.
Dave Jerden has claimed that the Randall and a “Marshall Super Lead” were used.
Ronnie C has stated the Snorkler was used, but later went into detail about a Fender Bassman with a Tube Driver in front blended with it that formed the foundational tracks.
If I had to guess, the Snorkler was probably a given since it was cited by 2/3, and the “Super Lead” mentioned by Jerden was probably the Snorkler and he’s just remembering wrong on what the Marshall was. All 3 of them clearly remember a Marshall.
From there, sounds like the Randall and/or Bassman/Tube Driver forms the other half. Some of that album certainly has a Randall-ish vibe to it, but the Bassman/Tube Driver setup was a pretty damn detailed description which lends some credibility in my eyes.
Jerry has said numerous times dating back to the ‘90s that a Bogner modded Marshall (“Snorkler”) was used.
Dave Jerden has claimed that the Randall and a “Marshall Super Lead” were used.
Ronnie C has stated the Snorkler was used, but later went into detail about a Fender Bassman with a Tube Driver in front blended with it that formed the foundational tracks.
If I had to guess, the Snorkler was probably a given since it was cited by 2/3, and the “Super Lead” mentioned by Jerden was probably the Snorkler and he’s just remembering wrong on what the Marshall was. All 3 of them clearly remember a Marshall.
From there, sounds like the Randall and/or Bassman/Tube Driver forms the other half. Some of that album certainly has a Randall-ish vibe to it, but the Bassman/Tube Driver setup was a pretty damn detailed description which lends some credibility in my eyes.
H
harddriver
Well-known member
I was prepared to hear a sluggish, browned out chewy Bogner mess but to be fair it does sound less chewy than the Bogner XTC with some more snarl and some teeth to it giving it a pretty mean sound..........................
It still has what I identify as Bogner tone............................
At 22-23:00 minutes I was quite liking the crunch on the chugs................
Curious what a Helios would sound like beside it......................Talk about cutting your own throat on Helios sales though...............
Quick... somebody grab a Fender Bassman with a BK Butler Tubedriver and do a side by side and let's settle the Urban Legend once and for all.................
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H
harddriver
Well-known member
It was well known that Jerry played an Randall RG80 when he went into the studio to record the first album. There are some YT videos of early shows where Jerry is still playing the Randall live even after recording Facelift and the tone sounded great.
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Matt300ZXT
Well-known member
Maybe Helios prices will drop a little and I can buy one of them
screamindemon
Well-known member
FourT6and2
Well-known member
What's the difference?
glpg80
Well-known member
Yeah I feel this hard. This should have been released at the same time as the Helios to give people options for preference. Helios might as well be discontinued because this is stomping all over the same tones, feature set, buyer market, etc.
Plus a lot of people just want something different. The Bogner XTC is a staple because of just how amazing they feel and how they respond when you dig in. This amp is like the XTC’s great grandfather with less features and incapable of handling down tuning or throwing serious metal rhythm tracks down at the pricepoint it’s likely aiming at.
And on top of it there’s just a saturated market right now of hard rock modded Marshall’s. I’ve noticed even I’m trending away from dad rock boomer music and wanting to get into the alt rock or 7 string metal era.
I also hated how he dimed everything and the amp was barely stable and it NEEDED noise gates but nothing was built in. I think people are expecting more out of buy as is mods anymore because in 40 years the bar has been raised.
In all fucking honesty I’d grab James Brown’s EL34 5150 iconic over this and go to band practice with usable channel switching at 1/5 the cost, lower noise floor, and more range.
TLDR: too little too late. The market just isn’t at this anymore.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
The Helios has a brighter more ‘70’s JMP type voicing (also one of the better Bogner’s imo) and the XTC’s are smoother and polished sounding. They don’t get the same distinctive chewy low mid growl thing on powerchords the way I heard it in his demo. If you’re not that picky I guess they can approximate it in the vague ballpark as many amps can do to each other, but if you really want that sound this is the amp it seems. For rich tone in the low mids Bogner’s are to me some of the best (especially my Caveman and OG Uber) and have high hopes for the Snorkler to be up there too. If it’s anything like the Bogner modded Marshall I had or like what I hear in this clip (fingers crossed no filtered/synthetic quality like the UU) then it’ll be to me a more interesting amp than the xtc or HeliosMaybe I’m just in a mood but find it really hard to give a shit about it. First, it feels like it’s way too late and is just for nostalgia, man cave jams now and 2nd, Isn’t the Helios meant to cover this (or would you hear and feel a difference between the two). Feel like I’d still rather have an Ecstasy and just crank the a presence on it. Maybe there’s a niche market for AIC tribute bands that only play Facelift…but weren’t the rhythm tracks mostly a Bassman head with a tube driver?
I think this was used on Social D’s self titled (So Far Away etc). Could be fun to nail that tone. But I actually got something super close to that with a 34 loaded Mark V, Ch 2, Edge using a Junior anyway.
Anyhoo….
Regardless of who used what I never cared for those blackface bassman’s whether stock/boosted or modded. They’re very good for the price and have the organic, raw sound I prefer, but its hollow, round, rubbery midrange is very exposed vs a good Marshall or vs an amp like this Snorkler would also do
B
braintheory
Well-known member
The Iconic and XTC’s are a very different type of sound. I’d agree the Snorkler wouldn’t be a great choice for most of what you mentioned. It excels I think in rich, thick lower mid growl powerchords, stuff that isn’t too fast or tight, which is basically what you hear in most AIC songs
For whatever reason a lot of guys have been interested in snorklers lately way before this amp was announced and I had lots of interest when selling the Bogner modded Marshall I had recently. As long as the amp sound fairly raw and organic like the Helios or Telos (not filtered/synthetic like the UU) I think it should be a success. I really really hope it doesn’t have filtered sound like the UU. That would make or break my experience with it. Fingers crossed…
PurityS.L.G
Well-known member
What do you mean? I know that you know those circuits very well as a hobbyist builder so I'm not sure what you're asking or looking to imply but those amps (plexi/SL and 800) are not a far stretch from each other but they do sound quite different and have different characteristics from each other, even if they share the base tone.