Are real amps on stage becoming a thing of the past?

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JimAnsell

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many of the rig run downs and guitar tech videos on you tube show the artists using kempers or ax fx units direct, with iem's.
so there are no amps on stage, leaving more room for show props or for the band to wonder, and just the sound of the drums and monitors on stage.

what do you all think about this? is this the way of the future? or just artists being forced to be thrifty because transporting guitar and bass rigs is getting more costly and cutting into the touring profits which are more vital than ever for a bands survival?
 
I think it's a combination of the 2. I've seen many self contained rigs and IEM's come in over the years at the festival I stage manage - with modelers starting getting really popular & usable around 2008 or so.

Let's face it - it's no longer the 80's with million dollar advances. Bands need to squeeze every dime they can.
Saved production costs due to less gear to transport, a more consistent sound night to night. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing like a blasting stack pushing your hair back on the stage - but only the artist feels that. 98% of the audience out front can't tell the difference (nor do most even care).

The other piece is that some guys like to embrace cutting edge technology & implement it (combined with dB limits at many venues & fests).
I definitely think it has its place, but I myself, am old school and prefer a head into a mic'd cab (though if i was playing out these days, I'd likely have a torpedo or some other load box with IR_ to allow the sound guy to have a bit more consistency and control.
My 0.02, YMMV
 
Way cheaper to tour that way.
Banners and lighting works better for the crowd visually than amps.
Easier to get better sound to the guy at the mixer,who just wants to get the best sound to the crowd.
In-ear monitors give better coverage IF you have a good tech handing your mix at the monitor board.
Plus you won't be as deaf at the end of the tour...unless your drummer sucks(couldn't pass up a chance to take a dig at drummers).
Why wouldn't you go that way?
 
I think out of convenience many pro and amateur players have gravitated to the non amp thing. I have used both in my life but mostly prefer amps. I think it is easier for the pros and for their techs to set up etc. Sound is more consistent as well. Mostly the big amps backline look is fake and a relic of the past. But there are a lot of old clichés that persist with rock n roll ha. The crowd does not care. Nothing to me feels better than a tube amp with a drummer but I only play small bars and the occasional casino.

My pet peeve with local cats using modelers etc is that they do not dial the tone in very well at all. It sounds like shit because they have bad ears and dial everything in way too distorted. Also with tons of effects or delay all over it. Most of the time it sounds like a beehive to me. I think the trick is to dial it in with less gain and maybe add some effects here and there situationally. In addition, most of the guys around here with Kempers or Helix whatever cannot be heard in a mix either (whether it is their fault or the soundman's).
 
Different players with different preferences. I’m sure for every modeler on stage there are tube amps on 10 or more other stages.

From what I’ve seen, many Rig Rundown episodes catch bands on overseas tours, where modelers are more convenient to transport.
 
i personally can't get any further from tube amps than running my kemper stage into my Mesa simul satellite 1x12 combo, which is esentially like having a tube powered, non frfr kemper kab. The 5 band (mainly the 80hz and 6600 hz) helps tune out any farts or ice picks from certain models.
but then its still using tubes, still using a real amp, just a digital preamp. Still tho, thats a smaller footprint than my ideal rig, which is the mark IVa, simul sat, into 2 4x12's in dual mono with a few pedals in the loop.
 
Modelers are a good tool if you want the exact same polished sound you have on studio albums where you might as well pop the CD in for the audience and have a smoke. Or if you're one that needs 387 different tones for an 8 song set without having to lug around 10 heads and 20 cabs.

Silly exaggerations aside, it's a convenient tool to have when transportation or stage space is a concern. If you can profile your own tube amps/settings, have them all in one nice package, and send a good tone to FOH without all the hassle of cabs, mics, etc. then it makes sense. Most of your audience isn't going to know or care if you're using a tube amp or a modeler.

Personally I'm still going to use my tube amps, but I'm mostly a home jam session guy these days. When I was playing gigs they were all local and one amp and cab worked perfectly fine. I never had a need for hundreds of tones at my fingertips during a live show. My one tube amp got me where I wanted to be and it was never a hassle to transport locally. If I were doing multi-state tours I guess I'd consider a modeler or profiler mainly for the convenience.
 
I sure hope so, I’m tired of lugging shit around. I want to plug my wireless into my iPhone which goes direct to FOH and all I have to focus on is rocking the masses. When I’m done I simply walk off stage to the bar. I couldn’t care less about tubes or 4x12s
 
Definitely seeing more people going direct with the smaller touring bands. I’d be doing it too, if it meant I could put a couple hundred extra in my bank each week. It’s fun to play in front of cabs, but when you’re already living off Vienna Sausages and peanut butter, fuck those cabs. :ROFLMAO:

I’ve heard terrible tones as long as I’ve been going to see bands play live, big amps, small amps, modelers, tube amps, rack rigs, whatever. Too many variables to blame it on one particular thing. Eric Johnson can sound like shit if someone bumps a mic off axis right before the gig.

Me, personal, my live rig is a Fractal FM9 into two 2x12’s, I can still give FOH a direct option if they want or they can mic a cab. Pretty much resolves any issues I can run into; got all the stage volume/feel (in stereo) I want and FOH gets whatever they want (mono).
 
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i prefer tube amps at good volumen. natural compression, air moving and the punch on the chest are inspiring for the music i like
 
Its amazing to me how many options we have these days. Mic'ed amps, amps with an IR DI, Amps into RL then direct with IRs, Direct Modeling rigs, Hybrid direct rigs, etc. Not really sure what the pros are using, but not surprised that more and more are embracing digital technology.

I can say at Church's that amps are rare at this point, been using in ear monitors since 2009. Just a few years ago I was using a tube amp into a mic'ed 212 cab, that was behind the platform, so I could crank it. Then I switched to a tube amp into a Suhr RLIR direct to the PA. Since I was always using the same cab, I found the setup into the Surh RLIR a real break through as I could taylor the IR to the amp.

For the past year, I have been using a tube preamp pedal into a Two notes cabm direct to the PA. Since P&W always has at least delay or reverb, this setup works great and I don't miss the tube amp much. I still feel like I get the dynamics with the tube preamp pedal. I will say that I have turned off the delay and reverb at home when running into the PA and find that dry, the tone is pretty uninspiring. Most of my counterparts are using a line 6 helix direct.

For the local bands, they are still using amps. My buddy's band they are very old school and don't mic their amps unless outside, PA is just vocals and maybe a little drums. Reason being is that they want to let their amps do the work, versus idling them on min volume and micing. I am playing bass in a band starting up, we are planning to use amps. Currently using an Ampeg SVT3pro into a 210 cab. Not planning to haul out the 73 ampeg V4 (with V4B switches), that thing is a beast.
 
RaceU4her said:
I sure hope so, I’m tired of lugging shit around. I want to plug my wireless into my iPhone which goes direct to FOH and all I have to focus on is rocking the masses. When I’m done I simply walk off stage to the bar. I couldn’t care less about tubes or 4x12s
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That'd be great.... Cell phone + guitar = ready to rock the club. Thought it would suck to be in the middle of a set, get a bunch of texts and notifications, and all that shit starts being blasted through FOH. :LOL:
 
Any soundman worth their salt with a good PA can take stage volume and make it sound great.

Unfortunately in today's live world it's a combo of several things, average soundman who cannot handle stage volume so everything has to be controlled, technology that's allowed them to do so and allowed the artist decent sounds and ease of transport with smaller gear.

Fun Note - I recently went to see one of my good friends bands at a cool venue. They're running the two notes stuff direct. Soundman was terrible, he couldn't even handle that. Midway through the set one of the bands friends who happens to be arguably the best soundman in the area, mic'ed up their cabs during a quick break, stepped in to finish the night and it sounded great. A good soundman is worth their weight in gold.
 
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MadAsAHatter said:
That'd be great.... Cell phone + guitar = ready to rock the club. Thought it would suck to be in the middle of a set, get a bunch of texts and notifications, and all that shit starts being blasted through FOH. :LOL:
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i guess this iRig thing im looking at already does it.
 
If you want me to go direct, you better have a quality PA system and know how to use it. If I show up and a club has 2 shitty ass mains and a busted PA head and "Ole Ronnie The Soundguy" doesn't even give a shit...the tube amps are getting cranked.
 
For those who are gigging, who many places actually have their own PA and sound person?

My buddies band typically is running sound themselves and is providing the PA.
 
jabps said:
Any soundman worth their salt with a good PA can take stage volume and make it sound great.
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at the big clubs at least i was always in the "do what the sound guy wants" club unlike many others and none of them ever wanted a ton of stage volume
 
RaceU4her said:
at the big clubs at least i was always in the "do what the sound guy wants" club unlike many others and none of them ever wanted a ton of stage volume
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I've played alot of big clubs and the good ones were easy to work with. Sure they're gonna ask for a little here or there but in my experience most were great to work with and knew you needed to hear your backline. And yes I was always compliant with them. Always got a laugh at the newbie's who'd piss them off. And they took care of you especially if you acted professional and got your gear on and off stage in an orderly fashion. I've had crappy one's as well where I literally could not hear any backline or much of anything. Thankfully during my years of playing live that was not the norm.
 
I play amps.

In reality, I use the amp for my tone more than any guitar or effects pedal, feedback is important and useful to me along with a tone that makes those in the room take notice.

When the hair on the back of your neck is standing up, that is grail-tone. I like my guitars and pedals but my tone is my amp.


Compared to an electric car, a 2023 Corvette is slow but it is way cooler looking and much more my style than a Tesla. The Tesla will smoke the Corvette in a race, but then you're just another puck, whereas the guy in Corvette? Have you seen the new Vettes? MSRP $64,200.00 https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/corvette I like amps and Corvettes, YMMV!

Visit - iRigtalk.com for non-Rig talk, Im pretty sure this site is for actual Rigs, not stupid shit iRigs!
 
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