shar-vell Dan
Well-known member
In your opinion of course.
Dont worry once dem tariffs kick in gonna be great.
https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wages
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In your opinion of course.
Dont worry once dem tariffs kick in gonna be great.
https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wages
FourT6and2
Well-known member
In your opinion of course.
Dont worry once dem tariffs kick in gonna be great.
https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wages
WTF are you talking about. I said $7 as a use of hyperbole, not as a literal number of what I think amp assemblers are getting paid. You're off on a weird tangent as usual. Never mind the fact that independent contractors are not subject to minimum wage laws.
shar-vell Dan
Well-known member
Hey buddy loosen up yer shorts is Christmas. Save being "serious" for when someone's dying.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
So here are two recent examples:
1.
Someone is selling a '72 Super Lead on eBay. The amp looks super clean. No photos of the chassis though. And they're asking top dollar for it. I reach out asking for a photo of the chassis/circuit board to see what's what. They're nice enough and say they aren't comfortable removing the chassis because they don't want to get electrocuted. Ok fine, I understand. But they offer to take the amp to an amp tech to get photos. Great. But still kind of a pain to have to wait 3-5 days when I'm looking at other options that might get sold in the meantime.
I finally get photos today and the amp is a mess. Heavily modified and messed with internally. A majority of the components have been replaced, 95% of the solder joints throughout the amp have been finger banged, and 99% of all the leads have been moved around and jumbled up. It's a rat's nest, so I had to pass.
But this is why photos are important!
2.
Similar story. Amp for sale on Reverb. Looks super clean on the outside. Priced at the top of the market. Description is vague. Just says very good condition. They have a ton of photos of like... an amp cover they're including with the sale lol. But zero photos of the chassis. Hell... not even a single photo of the amp with the back cover removed so you can see the tubes and transformers. I mean.. come on.
I call them and ask for some photos (they are a small music store chain in the midwest). They text me some photos with the back removed but none of the circuit board. I ask again and they tell me the amp is on consignment, not theirs. So they can't send me photos of the chassis for some reason. And when I tell them that, just like a vintage car, there's no way I'm buying a 53-year-old amp without looking under the hood first. So they tell me they will take some photos IF I pay them an Amp Tech Bench Fee. Ridiculous. I understand they're trying to avoid tire kickers and having their time wasted. But they've got a buyer on the phone ready to buy and they're pulling this BS.
I tell them it's the SELLER'S responsibility to provide adequate photos and that I'm willing to pay the bench fee IF that fee goes toward the purchase of the amp should I decide to buy. They agree and tell me they need to get the seller's permission before sending me photos.
After going back and forth like this, they aren't able to get in touch with the seller. Oh well. I bought a different one and they lose the sale.
1.
Someone is selling a '72 Super Lead on eBay. The amp looks super clean. No photos of the chassis though. And they're asking top dollar for it. I reach out asking for a photo of the chassis/circuit board to see what's what. They're nice enough and say they aren't comfortable removing the chassis because they don't want to get electrocuted. Ok fine, I understand. But they offer to take the amp to an amp tech to get photos. Great. But still kind of a pain to have to wait 3-5 days when I'm looking at other options that might get sold in the meantime.
I finally get photos today and the amp is a mess. Heavily modified and messed with internally. A majority of the components have been replaced, 95% of the solder joints throughout the amp have been finger banged, and 99% of all the leads have been moved around and jumbled up. It's a rat's nest, so I had to pass.
But this is why photos are important!
2.
Similar story. Amp for sale on Reverb. Looks super clean on the outside. Priced at the top of the market. Description is vague. Just says very good condition. They have a ton of photos of like... an amp cover they're including with the sale lol. But zero photos of the chassis. Hell... not even a single photo of the amp with the back cover removed so you can see the tubes and transformers. I mean.. come on.
I call them and ask for some photos (they are a small music store chain in the midwest). They text me some photos with the back removed but none of the circuit board. I ask again and they tell me the amp is on consignment, not theirs. So they can't send me photos of the chassis for some reason. And when I tell them that, just like a vintage car, there's no way I'm buying a 53-year-old amp without looking under the hood first. So they tell me they will take some photos IF I pay them an Amp Tech Bench Fee. Ridiculous. I understand they're trying to avoid tire kickers and having their time wasted. But they've got a buyer on the phone ready to buy and they're pulling this BS.
I tell them it's the SELLER'S responsibility to provide adequate photos and that I'm willing to pay the bench fee IF that fee goes toward the purchase of the amp should I decide to buy. They agree and tell me they need to get the seller's permission before sending me photos.
After going back and forth like this, they aren't able to get in touch with the seller. Oh well. I bought a different one and they lose the sale.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Oh and there's another '71 SL on Reverb without any gut shots. Just a photo of a hand-written note from a tech stating it's all original. I reached out to the seller for photos and they basically told me to go fuck myself.
I called the tech in the note and he was super cool. But he works on so many amps that he couldn't really tell me anything definitive, but he's gonna do some research as a courtesy to see if he took a photo. I'm not gonna buy this one just out of principle. But this is the kind of nonsense people put you through and they expect to actually sell this stuff?
I called the tech in the note and he was super cool. But he works on so many amps that he couldn't really tell me anything definitive, but he's gonna do some research as a courtesy to see if he took a photo. I'm not gonna buy this one just out of principle. But this is the kind of nonsense people put you through and they expect to actually sell this stuff?
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Exo-metal
Well-known member
ChuggNorris
Well-known member
Larry?
And yeah the reverb seller probably doesn't want anyone seeing the mod. I do think getting butthurt because a seller decides to not show you that, is interesting. And it's clear why they wouldn't.
Id say if that bothers the dude he should shop for other amps instead of get mad he can't get a high resolution gut shot of the amp.... who really expects gut shots of amps they buy anyway?
Id consider that a bonus but not needed. Theres return policies & shit for all that "what if". After all that's why their selling fees are so fuckin high now right? Of course.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
I refuse to buy a vintage amp without seeing what’s under the hood and what I’m buying. It’s not that difficult or time consuming to pull a chassis and take pics.
I do it local as well. There was a local shop that had a ‘70 SL very fairly priced. Asked if I could open it up and probably 75%+ of the board was replacement parts.
I do it local as well. There was a local shop that had a ‘70 SL very fairly priced. Asked if I could open it up and probably 75%+ of the board was replacement parts.
mnemonic
Well-known member
If that first guy posts on tgp it’s gonna be evidence of anyone asking questions being a tire kicking time waster. Get ready for the next 30 page thread. He knows what he got and he’s sure it’s all original.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Seller stupidity at its finest.
Only reason they won't show the circuit is that they know it's not original. And, you won't buy anyway. So they'll just continue to wait and wait until someone who doesn't know anything about a vintage amp, decides it's time to buy one. No experience, just wanna have a vintage Marshall. These sellers are avoiding the savvy knowledgable buyer, because they know we won't take the bait.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Larry?
And yeah the reverb seller probably doesn't want anyone seeing the mod. I do think getting butthurt because a seller decides to not show you that, is interesting. And it's clear why they wouldn't.
Id say if that bothers the dude he should shop for other amps instead of get mad he can't get a high resolution gut shot of the amp.... who really expects gut shots of amps they buy anyway?
Id consider that a bonus but not needed. Theres return policies & shit for all that "what if". After all that's why their selling fees are so fuckin high now right? Of course.
I'm not buying modified amps or modern in-production amps. I'm shopping for stock vintage Marshall Super Leads that typically command a high price. And if someone is demanding top dollar for one, they need to provide photos of the circuit to verify what it is they're selling. Most sellers do. Some do not. And the ones who don't usually don't because they're hiding something. Case in point: Post #64 and #65. You calling me butthurt because I'm voicing my frustration about potentially dishonest/shady sellers is an interesting tactic...
This isn't like buying a new car. It's like buying a '68 Camaro. Gotta have a look under the hood first. The value of amps like these will vary greatly if it doesn't have original transformers, or if the original resistors, caps, etc. have been pilfered. Most sellers provide photos of the circuit. The ones who refuse are either ignorant (not their fault) or intentionally hiding something.
But the point is, it's important to be an informed buyer. And if you're actually advocating that buyers should NOT be informed or savvy... that's weird.
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FourT6and2
Well-known member
Correct. I did manage to finally get photos of both, though. The first seller... the amp is a mess. Not worth the asking price, let alone $2K. The second seller still refused to show me photos but I got one from the tech. Also not as advertised so I passed, but also just refuse to do business with a seller like that out of principle even if the amp was pristine.
ChuggNorris
Well-known member
I'm definitely down with being an informed buyer.
If that means crystal clear gunshots for you then so be it.
But, you can also return it if it's a hot mess. Reverb always licks the buyers asshole.
Rick Lee
Well-known member
My amp tech today showed me the chassis of a '73 Marshall 1987. The headshell was very clean and looked original. Tag board had Rosemary's signature on it. BUT ..... it had been converted to 6L6s, the PT had been replaced and it was a PCB. You'd know none of that from photos of the head with the back panel on. I'm sure it sounds totally amazing, but, if accurately shown in ads, it wouldn't bring anything close to what an all stock HW '73 1987 would.
shar-vell Dan
Well-known member
It should be no surprise that 60+ yr old Marshalls are drying up. They were drying up 25 yrs ago.
As for sellers i trust nobody born after 1980 for anything.
Reverb/PP & Ebay almost always side with buyers unless you've had run-ins with them before.
I wouldn't let it ruin your day. Ive snagged quite a bit vintage stuff the last year as old geezers are croaking. I see it as opportunities.
Hell some folks still gladly send M. Kameron amps then post here how great he is here so ...
If someone has something to hide they usually do.
As for sellers i trust nobody born after 1980 for anything.
Reverb/PP & Ebay almost always side with buyers unless you've had run-ins with them before.
I wouldn't let it ruin your day. Ive snagged quite a bit vintage stuff the last year as old geezers are croaking. I see it as opportunities.
Hell some folks still gladly send M. Kameron amps then post here how great he is here so ...
If someone has something to hide they usually do.
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Chris6870
Well-known member
If your advertising as original or untouched you should have photos to back it up. Hiw do they know? Did their tech tell them when he gave it a clean bill of health lol. I watch Marshall's on Ebay and Reverb and most prices are laughable.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Even if you aren't advertising original, gut shots should always be included. It's just too easy to do; no reason not to. I can't imagine anyone buying an old vintage amp without seeing the circuit. Unless it's fire sale cheap, then who cares since it's worth more than that even IF its been hacked.
shar-vell Dan
Well-known member
Well "you would think" folks on the hiway wouldn't "try to kill me" everyday commuting to work. Nope
"You would think" the cops would patrol the roads and pull over someone "being a menace" on the roads / nope.
You would think democrats & republicans could "co-exist" as AMERICANS. Nope.
So why should we expect someone making a quick buck to take naked pics of an amplifier ?
Plenty of reputable shops will. Shop around.
"You would think" the cops would patrol the roads and pull over someone "being a menace" on the roads / nope.
You would think democrats & republicans could "co-exist" as AMERICANS. Nope.
So why should we expect someone making a quick buck to take naked pics of an amplifier ?
Plenty of reputable shops will. Shop around.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
The most face-palm listings I see are ones where they include photos of the chassis out of the headshell but do NOT include a photo of the circuit. It's like... hey they took the trouble to remove the chassis to photograph it but for soooooome reason don't let you see under the hood.
shar-vell Dan
Well-known member
Yeah thats F-d up.
I PM'd you about a head.