Back from Europe

[Bob Savage]

Like I said, I've done a fair bit of travelling and like anything, you learn from experience. It really doesn't take as much effort as you think to stick out a little less. Case in point, to generalize all Romans as pushy, rude and jerks as a result of one trip there (when they were admittedly not behaving kosher) to me just says that maybe cultural travel isn't for them.

Yes, sticking out a little less is doable. I do not disagree with that.

Since we're generalizing here... I would imagine there aren't a lot of Asian travelers in Rome, you know, with the whole camera thing...

 

['63-Strat]

Like I said, I've done a fair bit of travelling and like anything, you learn from experience. It really doesn't take as much effort as you think to stick out a little less. Case in point, to generalize all Romans as pushy, rude and jerks as a result of one trip there (when they were admittedly not behaving kosher) to me just says that maybe cultural travel isn't for them.

Yes, sticking out a little less is doable. I do not disagree with that.

Since we're generalizing here... I would imagine there aren't a lot of Asian travelers in Rome, you know, with the whole camera thing...

I'm pretty sure I already said the camera etiquette thing had nothing to do with being American Asian people would probably know more than you'd think as far as photography goes with religious sites and people mind you because its the exact same issue in Asia.

 

[Bob Savage]

I'm pretty sure I already said the camera etiquette thing had nothing to do with being American

You haven't seen me weilding a camera.

 

['63-Strat]

I'm pretty sure I already said the camera etiquette thing had nothing to do with being American

You haven't seen me weilding a camera.

Are you trying to solicit me for some sort of Savage photoshoot?!

 

[Bob Savage]

Are you trying to solicit me for some sort of Savage photoshoot?!

Pervert! But, maybe...

 

[modestmelody]

They way you describe Romans is how Id describe yankees.

]

Fuck you, Shea.

 

[duesentrieb]

I guess the prob on "both" sides is: those who are tourists look and act like tourists. When I was in London I saw a guy in a T-shirt: "keep London tidy - eat a tourist" those living in those areas are fed up with/by tourists everywhere- same about the prices: I bet the prices for a good meal in NYC aren't too cheap either when you stay around the typical tourist areas. Not counting some flubby "bread" with a rotten sheet of salad pushed between some sort of beef of course

And fins: of course they are rude - when they don't have to work - they are drunk

 

[Jakem]

And fins: of course they are rude - when they don't have to work - they are drunk

NOT!

 

[Jack Luminous]

I was just giving a comparison. I hate McD's, but I also hate spending $50-60 for a so-so meal too. I don't think the food in Europe is all that great. They eat a lot of bread there, so the bread is good. I just wanted more protein and more options. All the Italian places had the same paninis, pizza, and pasta. The German food was the best because it was more of a meat and potato thing. Irish food was WAY too salty and I like salt quite a bit. Italian food was just ok and way overpriced IMO.

Wow

 

[Toca]

All I can reccomend is for all of you to visit Croatia!
Tons of cheap domestic food,1000 of islands,most beautiful girls..mega friendly people...to tourist of course
but they always fight amongst each other

 

[duesentrieb]

 

[hunter]

Next time you're over go and buy a Diezel, Engl, Framus or Hughes & Kettner. Then tell me again who is expensive

 

[thiswaythatway]

See, I'm sure you were being polite as far as you understand that term. But to an Italian that has (likely unjustified) prejudice against americans anyways, seeing American tourists coming out of a McDonald's is going to trigger some "rudeness," IMO. Your dress as a tourist plays a big role in how you will be treated in a foreign country too. Big time, IMO.

So because he didn't get setup with an authentic Italian wardrobe, and didn't stay out of McDonalds, he should expect to be treated poorly because he "looks like a tourist?" Man, that's going to make vacations a LOT more expensive. Not only that, I need to remember to be rude to tourists in the U.S. who don't fit in, I guess.

HAHA! No kidding! They are ALL about fashion in Italy. Even the "poor" peeps are metro sexual looking. Everyone there is thin and way overdressed. My wife got scolded by nuns twice. Once for taking a pic of a group of them and once for wearing shorts lol!

It's not that everyone in Europe is thin, it's that everyone here in the US is a fat pig. I went to Japan a few years ago for 2 weeks and there's NO fat people. When i came back to the US and i got into JFK airport it took me 2 seconds to find some big fat ass bitch. In Japan you just don't see women with big asses the size of a volkswagon.

One thing that's different is the portions. They don't eat as much. I took me a few days to get used to it. Over here you go anywhere and your big gulp alone is gigantic.


And as far as attitudes and Europe. Well, my father in law has been everywhere and his bussiness has taken him to Europe probably hundreds of times. And my wife has been across they pond numerous times. France seems to harvest the most anti-American attitudes. I would like to visit Spain and Scotland though.

And speaking of expensive, if you're in Japan and you order some Kobe Beef and you didn't check the price, don't be upset when you get a $300 bill for an 8 ounce meal.

 

[moronmountain]

(when they were admittedly not behaving entirely kosher) to me just says that maybe cultural travel isn't for them. Even taking the time to browse through a lonely planet first would save people a lot of disappointment. Better yet, read up on the places you're going to first so you can appreciate what you're seeing.

The ONLY thing I "admitted" to was that my wife took a picture of a group of nuns, and was wearing shorts within 200 yards of St. Peters Church. We got a long fine with everyone in Germany and Ireland, and have gotten along with everyone we've come across in every other country we've been to. The a-holes that would slam into you on the sidewalk or try to lift your wallet on the metro, or the prick that rubbed his cock on my wife's ass in a crowded area had no idea she took a picture of some nuns. We did a ton of research on the places we visited and enjoyed our trip sans the rude people in Rome. I wore ordinary looking clothes while we were there. I didn't wear any lude t-shirts or have my ass hanging out of my shorts. You can sit here and say whatever you want, but you weren't there. We are both courteous people and go out of our way to get along with others. You're talking to me like I'm a naive 15 year old kid, and that is the farthest thing from the truth.

 

['63-Strat]

(when they were admittedly not behaving entirely kosher) to me just says that maybe cultural travel isn't for them. Even taking the time to browse through a lonely planet first would save people a lot of disappointment. Better yet, read up on the places you're going to first so you can appreciate what you're seeing.

The ONLY thing I "admitted" to was that my wife took a picture of a group of nuns, and was wearing shorts within 200 yards of St. Peters Church. We got a long fine with everyone in Germany and Ireland, and have gotten along with everyone we've come across in every other country we've been to. The a-holes that would slam into you on the sidewalk or try to lift your wallet on the metro, or the prick that rubbed his cock on my wife's ass in a crowded area had no idea she took a picture of some nuns. We did a ton of research on the places we visited and enjoyed our trip sans the rude people in Rome. I wore ordinary looking clothes while we were there. I didn't wear any lude t-shirts or have my ass hanging out of my shorts. You can sit here and say whatever you want, but you weren't there. We are both courteous people and go out of our way to get along with others. You're talking to me like I'm a naive 15 year old kid, and that is the farthest thing from the truth.

In my first post I said I didn't know you man, and wasn't initially referring to what you said/did. Then I read the rest of the thread and it became clear that we have very different outlooks on things like this, no biggie. I'm sure you guys enjoyed your trip and its too bad that a few people acting badly seem to have spoiled parts of it for you, but that of course could happen in ANY city, and is not representative of Italy/Rome, IMO. But for you to say things like:

"HAHA! No kidding! They are ALL about fashion in Italy. Even the "poor" peeps are metro sexual looking. Everyone there is thin and way overdressed. My wife got scolded by nuns twice. Once for taking a pic of a group of them and once for wearing shorts lol!"

about people in Italy of all places, the fashion capital of the world(!!!) is just ignorant. Just because your idea of what is acceptable as far as body size and fashion goes differs from Italians' does not make it right, and certainly not while in Italy. That post seems fairly 15 year old-ish to me, honestly. Frankly, its not that Italians are thin, its that Americans are fat if you want to make broad generalizations. Whether you intended so or not, that post makes me think that you're jumping the gun in saying anything bad about Italy. Also, they're usually quite explicit about clothing/photo guidelines in any guidebooks I've seen, so none of that should have been a surprise really.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I feel that once Bush is gone Europe will be a friendly place once again for Americans.

 

[moronmountain]

(when they were admittedly not behaving entirely kosher) to me just says that maybe cultural travel isn't for them. Even taking the time to browse through a lonely planet first would save people a lot of disappointment. Better yet, read up on the places you're going to first so you can appreciate what you're seeing.

The ONLY thing I "admitted" to was that my wife took a picture of a group of nuns, and was wearing shorts within 200 yards of St. Peters Church. We got a long fine with everyone in Germany and Ireland, and have gotten along with everyone we've come across in every other country we've been to. The a-holes that would slam into you on the sidewalk or try to lift your wallet on the metro, or the prick that rubbed his cock on my wife's ass in a crowded area had no idea she took a picture of some nuns. We did a ton of research on the places we visited and enjoyed our trip sans the rude people in Rome. I wore ordinary looking clothes while we were there. I didn't wear any lude t-shirts or have my ass hanging out of my shorts. You can sit here and say whatever you want, but you weren't there. We are both courteous people and go out of our way to get along with others. You're talking to me like I'm a naive 15 year old kid, and that is the farthest thing from the truth.

In my first post I said I didn't know you man, and wasn't initially referring to what you said/did. Then I read the rest of the thread and it became clear that we have very different outlooks on things like this, no biggie. I'm sure you guys enjoyed your trip and its too bad that a few people acting badly seem to have spoiled parts of it for you, but that of course could happen in ANY city, and is not representative of Italy/Rome, IMO. But for you to say things like:

"HAHA! No kidding! They are ALL about fashion in Italy. Even the "poor" peeps are metro sexual looking. Everyone there is thin and way overdressed. My wife got scolded by nuns twice. Once for taking a pic of a group of them and once for wearing shorts lol!"

about people in Italy of all places, the fashion capital of the world(!!!) is just ignorant. Just because your idea of what is acceptable as far as body size and fashion goes differs from Italians' does not make it right, and certainly not while in Italy. That post seems fairly 15 year old-ish to me, honestly. Frankly, its not that Italians are thin, its that Americans are fat if you want to make broad generalizations. Whether you intended so or not, that post makes me think that you're jumping the gun in saying anything bad about Italy. Also, they're usually quite explicit about clothing/photo guidelines in any guidebooks I've seen, so none of that should have been a surprise really.

I wasn't saying that it was silly that they are in to fashion, I was laughing at Bob and then went on to make a statement. Americans are fat compared to Italians. Was it funny when the nuns scolded my wife? Yes. Am I allowed to laugh about it? Yes. What I think is funny is that a large percentage of the girls in Italy had thongs and ass crack showing above their jeans just like half the girls in the US, but my wife got frowned upon for wearing shorts. And they were conservative shorts as she dresses conservatively in general. In the end, I was never bitching about how they dress over there, because I could care less. Nor was I bitching about some nun giving my wife a dirty look as that was our fault. However to plow right through people because you want to be first in line, or trying to cop a feel from my wife on a crowed sub, or just being rude in general........ We experienced enough of that to last a life time, and I've been to plenty of big cities. I'm not ignorant by any stretch of the imagination. I don't even have an opinion on what is an "acceptable" body size. I could care less. The only person's body that I care about is my wife's. Even the people at our B & B who ARE Italians and LIVE IN ROME bitched about how rude and aggressive people are there, so I think what we experienced was representative of what the "average" citizen in Rome is like.

 

[duesentrieb]

France seems to harvest the most anti-American attitudes. I would like to visit Spain and Scotland though.
.

You may know that my wife is french and because of that I'm pretty often in France and talk to more french than just family members.
I wouldn't call that AAA - they have just a the same "proudness" about their country as (at least I'm under the impression) many americans. And it depends where you go in France. My wife is from normandy and you have big franco-US "clubs" there (one of our family members is a head of one, an older lady who survived the stuff living in Caen, which suffered from krauts and the later US bombings) and still today a lot of shops have signs like "welcome to our liberators, we speak english" with the flags of US, GB and Canada on their doors.

Bush, the war in iraq and the official attitude vs. the global warming has changed a lot IMO - all over europe, so I guess with Hillary everything will be much more relaxed btw congrats to her - she turned 60 lately, right?

The "interesting" thing is (there was an article in germany's left weekly magazine lately) that the higher the educational level, the more AAA can be found in germany.

Just wanted to tell from my view/observations and don't want to open a can of worms of course . . .

 

[thiswaythatway]

France seems to harvest the most anti-American attitudes. I would like to visit Spain and Scotland though.
.

You may know that my wife is french and because of that I'm pretty often in France and talk to more french than just family members.
I wouldn't call that AAA - they have just a the same "proudness" about their country as (at least I'm under the impression) many americans. And it depends where you go in France. My wife is from normandy and you have big franco-US "clubs" there (one of our family members is a head of one, an older lady who survived the stuff living in Caen, which suffered from krauts and the later US bombings) and still today a lot of shops have signs like "welcome to our liberators, we speak english" with the flags of US, GB and Canada on their doors.

Bush, the war in iraq and the official attitude vs. the global warming has changed a lot IMO - all over europe, so I guess with Hillary everything will be much more relaxed btw congrats to her - she turned 60 lately, right?

The "interesting" thing is (there was an article in germany's left weekly magazine lately) that the higher the educational level, the more AAA can be found in germany.

Just wanted to tell from my view/observations and don't want to open a can of worms of course . . .

France has always had a reputation here in the States that they just don't like Americans. I figure a lot of it is made up or exaggerated but there is some truth to it. I'm talking about typical things though like bad service at restuarants and whatnot, nothing major.

BUT, being that my wifes familiy is Japanese they can experience racial hate at a much higher level here in the states, especially in the midwest or the South. Me personally, the most uptight people i have been around was Raleigh North Carolina. Everywhere i went, it seemed everyone had a carrot up their ass.

 

[nbarts]

I guess the prob on "both" sides is: those who are tourists look and act like tourists. When I was in London I saw a guy in a T-shirt: "keep London tidy - eat a tourist" those living in those areas are fed up with/by tourists everywhere- same about the prices: I bet the prices for a good meal in NYC aren't too cheap either when you stay around the typical tourist areas. Not counting some flubby "bread" with a rotten sheet of salad pushed between some sort of beef of course