Best load box for low tuned metal sounds?

[Soundstorm]

I love modelers and amp sims, but I'm hooked on my VH4 and would love to find a way to capture a great DI to use with an IR loader in my DAW. Or something of that nature. Mic'ing a cab isn't completely out of the question but there would be challenges.

I've tried a lot of the popular options- Ox Box, Suhr RL, Suhr IR, Fryette, even a high end iso box. Now I have a Captor 16 on the way just to try it. I think lowtuned high gain metal is something of a curve ball for a lot of these units that were designed around standard E and certain frequencies, but that's just my theory. I tune B to B and use both an LP and a Strandberg.

Anyone find something that works well for this application?

 

[Spaceboy]

The tuning of your instrument has nothing to do with the loadbox. If you couldn't get a decent tone from the Fryette, Suhr, etc, the issue is absolutely not the loadbox. That being said, there's numerous loadbox comparisons floating around, and the Red Seven and St Rock seem to the closest to what you'd expect from a typical Vintage 30 loaded 4x12, but even the Ox despite being based on a 1x12 is more than capable of great metal tones.

 

[Soundstorm]

The tuning of your instrument has nothing to do with the loadbox. If you couldn't get a decent tone from the Fryette, Suhr, etc, the issue is absolutely not the loadbox. That being said, there's numerous loadbox comparisons floating around, and the Red Seven and St Rock seem to the closest to what you'd expect from a typical Vintage 30 loaded 4x12, but even the Ox despite being based on a 1x12 is more than capable of great metal tones.

I’m completely open to the possibility that it’s user error. But changing my pickups recently to a more medium/hot output vs the BKP Warpigs (21kohm) and Aftermaths has made a big difference in how my amp sims respond. I still do believe that hot output low tuned guitars are harder to dial in, especially in a mix, than standard tuned guitars in the digital realm. But maybe I’m doing something terribly wrong.

The St Rock looks very interesting but they’re near impossible to find. I guess the Red Seven is next.

 

[acceptance]

How much do these load boxes color the sound anyways? Why is it hard to make something totally neutral?

 

[yeoldefortran]

I haven't had any problems with lower tuning and either the Suhr RL or the Fryette PS-2. The fryette in particular is a pretty flexible load with the various settings. Did you have the same problem when re-amping or just when going to your daw?

The only other thing that comes to mind is that IIRC the VH4 has a weird depth/presence circuit using an inductor. I don't understand the physics enough to know but I suppose it is possible that that circuit is particularly fussy with loads?

 

[Soundstorm]

I haven't had any problems with lower tuning and either the Suhr RL or the Fryette PS-2. The fryette in particular is a pretty flexible load with the various settings. Did you have the same problem when re-amping or just when going to your daw?

The only other thing that comes to mind is that IIRC the VH4 has a weird depth/presence circuit using an inductor. I don't understand the physics enough to know but I suppose it is possible that that circuit is particularly fussy with loads?

It could very well be. I don’t have much of an issue with Neural DSP, especially now with the not-as-hot pickups. But getting good silent tones with the VH4 has been a challenge.

 

[ZEN Amps]

I love modelers and amp sims, but I'm hooked on my VH4 and would love to find a way to capture a great DI to use with an IR loader in my DAW. Or something of that nature. Mic'ing a cab isn't completely out of the question but there would be challenges.

I've tried a lot of the popular options- Ox Box, Suhr RL, Suhr IR, Fryette, even a high end iso box. Now I have a Captor 16 on the way just to try it. I think lowtuned high gain metal is something of a curve ball for a lot of these units that were designed around standard E and certain frequencies, but that's just my theory. I tune B to B and use both an LP and a Strandberg.

Anyone find something that works well for this application?

The Suhr is pretty close to a real 4x12, and capable of excellent resullts. There will always be some slight EQ differences between high performance offerings, but it's usually fairly minor.

The Suhr is a significantly more accurate load than the Two Notes though. I'm not commenting on how 'good' it sounds, that's for the user to decide. I'm talking accuracy to a real cab, or you could call it transparency. The Suhr is without question superior.

With good loads, I've had no issues with low tunings - this is an independent factor. You may run into issues with boxes that utilise a generic U-curve though - Two Notes, Ox, Waza etc.

The load is only one link in a fairly long chain of achieving good recorded tone - I'd recommend looking into all elements. The IR is of course a huge component - I'd stay away from the Celestion ones and look into Ownhammer or Mirror.

How much do these load boxes color the sound anyways? Why is it hard to make something totally neutral?

1. The good ones = very little.
2. Not hard at all, but like most things it's cheaper to do it poorly. And lighter, smaller etc.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Fractal went as far as modeling different load boxes just because of the differences between them and trying to give users of all devices something closer to a 1:1 match.

They're available as speaker impedance curves.(81-85) Definitely differences, varying degrees of subtly going from an actual speaker impedance curve to the load boxes. I can make a clip tomorrow. I was surprised how much the OxBox stood out.

 

[Soundstorm]

With good loads, I've had no issues with low tunings - this is an independent factor. You may run into issues with boxes that utilise a generic U-curve though - Two Notes, Ox, Waza etc.

The U curve could be a part of it. The VH4 puts out a ton of low end, that for me can be tricky to dial in without changing the response. Add anymore low end to that from the load and it’s a mud fest.

 

[RevDrucifer]

The U curve could be a part of it. The VH4 puts out a ton of low end, that for me can be tricky to dial in without changing the response. Add anymore low end to that from the load and it’s a mud fest.

I started fucking with the VH4 in the Fractal last night, I’ve always had trouble with low end and that amp. What are you running your Master Volume at with the real version? Seems the fine-tuning spots on that amp is a magical combination of Gain, Bass and Master Volume playing nice together. There’s both the Blue and Silver versions in the Fractal, I was actually digging the Blue a bit more. Hahahahah and do VH4 owners ever use the 4th channel? There’s so much fucking gain on the 3rd that the 4th is just lunacy to me.

 

[Soundstorm]

I started fucking with the VH4 in the Fractal last night, I’ve always had trouble with low end and that amp. What are you running your Master Volume at with the real version? Seems the fine-tuning spots on that amp is a magical combination of Gain, Bass and Master Volume playing nice together. There’s both the Blue and Silver versions in the Fractal, I was actually digging the Blue a bit more. Hahahahah and do VH4 owners ever use the 4th channel? There’s so much fucking gain on the 3rd that the 4th is just lunacy to me.

I usually set the master no higher than 10 o'clock. There's no real tone to gain from it as it's almost completely in the preamp. It changes the response some and actually adds even more low end if you go much higher. The VH4 channel 4 can be a great channel for brutal shit but it's harder to dial in than Ch.3 because it's specifically intended as the lead channel, the mids are more forward and are centered at a different frequency. The Ch.4 of the Hagen on the other hand (from what I've observed by YouTube clips) is much more usable as a high gain rhythm, and it's why I really want one.

 

[retrorack]

Yeah my understanding is that the impedance curve does play a part in the low end response of the amp. And it’s a two-way street, as the amps power section reacts to the higher impedance at certain frequencies. Most have a spike around 100Hz, but below that can vary quite a bit.

 

[Bram576]

I believe st rock is back in business and shipping. They’d be my first choice. The react IR is incredible. You can capture your own irs with it too and if you a/b you legitimately can’t tell the difference.

For IRs I’d recommend Titan audio, or the Erik rutan dyn IRs. I Own pretty much all the big ones out there and these are much better and sound like the real thing. Most guys do TONS of eq to their IRs before publishing them.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I’m very happy with my captor X. I used it with an 8 string and a synergy rig and it handled it very well. Editing is stupid easy with the app too

 

[Bram576]

Check this out

 

[Bram576]

I’m very happy with my captor X. I used it with an 8 string and a synergy rig and it handled it very well. Editing is stupid easy with the app too

The captor doesn’t sound bad, but the impedance curve makes it a not fully accurate representation of a real rig. Some amps are more sensitive than others with this. A recto through a captor x will sound super wonky.

 

[acceptance]

Two issues: accuracy of DI/IR and loadbox neutrality in simply reducing signal strength to cab. Which are we discussing, or both?

 

[GOHOINC]

I find it funny that in todays world we spend so much time trying to turn a device that was designed to make things louder (amplifier) into something that doesn't make sound at all...

In all seriousness though, I get why amp sims would respond differently to different pickups as you are hitting them directly from the pickups through your interface and you need to balance the input level to not clip. Have to deal with that on an axefx too. But thats not a thing with a real amp, the amps pre-amp should be "absorbing" any pickup differences, the load box is only seeing what the power section of the amp is doing so pickups shouldn't matter aside from changing overall tone of the rig. If you are getting weird tones, I'd try looking at how hot the signal from the load box is coming into your interface and and see if you need to adjust or trim the input level.

 

[Soundstorm]

I believe st rock is back in business and shipping. They’d be my first choice. The react IR is incredible. You can capture your own irs with it too and if you a/b you legitimately can’t tell the difference.

For IRs I’d recommend Titan audio, or the Erik rutan dyn IRs. I Own pretty much all the big ones out there and these are much better and sound like the real thing. Most guys do TONS of eq to their IRs before publishing them.

I’ve checked the site on and off for the last year and it always says “Out of stock”, but I’ll keep checking, thanks for the info!

Is the Erik Rutan Dyn IR for the Two Notes software only? How’s the DynIR stuff compared to the other third party cabs?

 

[RevDrucifer]

I usually set the master no higher than 10 o'clock. There's no real tone to gain from it as it's almost completely in the preamp. It changes the response some and actually adds even more low end if you go much higher. The VH4 channel 4 can be a great channel for brutal shit but it's harder to dial in than Ch.3 because it's specifically intended as the lead channel, the mids are more forward and are centered at a different frequency. The Ch.4 of the Hagen on the other hand (from what I've observed by YouTube clips) is much more usable as a high gain rhythm, and it's why I really want one.

Yeah, I was surprised to see the MV up at 4 and the amp still had a shitload of headroom. Fractal puts a lot of effort into modeling that area, with some amps like a Dual Rec with the MV around 10 o’clock you’re starting to get flub from the power section, but I think I cranked that VH4 model right up to 6 and it was hardly making a dent.

Might be one of the weirder amps I’ve played through, while tweaking it last night I could do all the start/stop metal stuff just fine, but listen back it’s almost like the initial attack is cut off. Odd to play something that can cut like that without having a ton of immediacy in the initial attack.