Bring back the BLue Face!!!!!

[slyvren]

I say let the old amp be. All the owners of the old ones are going to be severely pissed if the market gets watered down with some more. It's a time-stamp in history. Nobody is going to get AJ's tone with or without it. Let's face it ~90% of the guys that want a 90's blueface reissue want one because of Adam no matter what they say. Peter likes the new amps better and there is no reason almost everyone else shouldn't think so too. It's an evolution of the original idea. Trials and errors to transform it into a whole new beast capable of some monster tones the original only dreamed of. I'm not dissing the old ones, I'm just trying to get people's heads out of their posteriors to see the beauty and create their own tone out of what's readily available to them instead of chasing the dreams and tones of someone else.

As a owner of the "old" amps I don't think it would hurt the market at all. I would buy one if Mr. Diezel decided to make a select number of them and I will state that publicly. At the same time I respect his wishes and support him and Diezel.
Yes AJ brought me to Diezel and alot of other people. So does James H., that bald guy that sqishes orange squash, and a lot of other people that make music that appeals to a large audiance.
With that said, I also own the new amps as well. There has been a progression of evolution throught the years that follows the current trends in music. I love the new amps, the old amps, and everthing in between.

I don't think my head is in my "posterior" because I would buy one from Diezel and love its tone for what it is and not just of chasing AJ's tone. I do wonder about where your head is by dismissing anyone who would want one and think chasing someones tone is a bad thing. We all have to start somewhere and so did you.
If chasing someones tone gets you to play its a good thing. The tone you find along the way may very well be your own.

I never said I dismissed them. I'm for creating not recreating. The music scene is too full of copy-cats and clones of one band to the next. I know its fun to play a favorite song through a similar sounding rig, but attempts to carbon copy are futile and ultimately leave us with watered down music. My point is why can't you get close enough with a modern vh4? I have a dear friend that has one and a LPC and has come much closer to Adam's tone than anyone else I've heard. I don't dismiss him. I'm just saying there should be a line drawn somewhere around asking manufacturer to cater to your request just so you can copy some guy's sound is kind of defeating the purpose. If he does so be it... I just don't understand it. Don't you guys realize the reason Tool lies about their gear is because they want you to understand that it's not what's important?

 

[steve_k]

I'm a much much happier player since I stopped trying to copy jerry cantrell, tony iommi, adam jones, dimebag, kim thayil, zakk wylde or whatever idol I have and found my own tone

I would never sound exactly like any of them and that's just nonsense
you still could sound close enough even with a much cheaper diezel einstein, anyway, but you simply wouldn't get there even with adam's own amps

Well said....and sound advice (pardon the pun).

 

[steve_k]

To answer the OP's question, I was just talking to Peter the other day about the 98 that was for sale. I don't know if anyone noticed, but two days before the auction ended, the seller opened it up to international bidding after I talked him into it. I bid it up to almost 2000 Euro, then stepped away. Peter advised that what he is building today is a much better version. Peter wouldn't be advising me of that, just to sell an amp.

The subject of another BF run came up. He was not that happy with the blue color face plates that he had last time and was having trouble finding the right one. He also has to place a minimum order of 200 sets of plates. That's quite a few VH4's to dump on the market.

Anyway, I had D-Moll inbound at the time. Looking forward to getting very acquainted with it.

 

[jonl]

The tone I chase is my choice, please don't give me that crap!
I am a hobbiest that enjoys chasing a certain style and tone. That is what makes me happy!

If making your own tone and style makes you happy that's great! I'm happy for you!

I'm glad that it does, but asking an amp manufacturer to re-release a certain circuit just so you can chase a tone that you'll never get is a little presumptuous don't you think?

Nope
It just shows how much we love Diezel...
Move along!

 

[jonl]

I say let the old amp be. All the owners of the old ones are going to be severely pissed if the market gets watered down with some more. It's a time-stamp in history. Nobody is going to get AJ's tone with or without it. Let's face it ~90% of the guys that want a 90's blueface reissue want one because of Adam no matter what they say. Peter likes the new amps better and there is no reason almost everyone else shouldn't think so too. It's an evolution of the original idea. Trials and errors to transform it into a whole new beast capable of some monster tones the original only dreamed of. I'm not dissing the old ones, I'm just trying to get people's heads out of their posteriors to see the beauty and create their own tone out of what's readily available to them instead of chasing the dreams and tones of someone else.

As a owner of the "old" amps I don't think it would hurt the market at all. I would buy one if Mr. Diezel decided to make a select number of them and I will state that publicly. At the same time I respect his wishes and support him and Diezel.
Yes AJ brought me to Diezel and alot of other people. So does James H., that bald guy that sqishes orange squash, and a lot of other people that make music that appeals to a large audiance.
With that said, I also own the new amps as well. There has been a progression of evolution throught the years that follows the current trends in music. I love the new amps, the old amps, and everthing in between.

I don't think my head is in my "posterior" because I would buy one from Diezel and love its tone for what it is and not just of chasing AJ's tone. I do wonder about where your head is by dismissing anyone who would want one and think chasing someones tone is a bad thing. We all have to start somewhere and so did you.
If chasing someones tone gets you to play its a good thing. The tone you find along the way may very well be your own.

I never said I dismissed them. I'm for creating not recreating. The music scene is too full of copy-cats and clones of one band to the next. I know its fun to play a favorite song through a similar sounding rig, but attempts to carbon copy are futile and ultimately leave us with watered down music. My point is why can't you get close enough with a modern vh4? I have a dear friend that has one and a LPC and has come much closer to Adam's tone than anyone else I've heard. I don't dismiss him. I'm just saying there should be a line drawn somewhere around asking manufacturer to cater to your request just so you can copy some guy's sound is kind of defeating the purpose. If he does so be it... I just don't understand it. Don't you guys realize the reason Tool lies about their gear is because they want you to understand that it's not what's important?

Why do you care so much? I mean come on I'm not hurting anyone here!
Your being ridiculous!

 

[jonl]

To answer the OP's question, I was just talking to Peter the other day about the 98 that was for sale. I don't know if anyone noticed, but two days before the auction ended, the seller opened it up to international bidding after I talked him into it. I bid it up to almost 2000 Euro, then stepped away. Peter advised that what he is building today is a much better version. Peter wouldn't be advising me of that, just to sell an amp.

The subject of another BF run came up. He was not that happy with the blue color face plates that he had last time and was having trouble finding the right one. He also has to place a minimum order of 200 sets of plates. That's quite a few VH4's to dump on the market.

Anyway, I had D-Moll inbound at the time. Looking forward to getting very acquainted with it.

Well that's cool dude! Glad Peter told you this, I'm keeping both Diezels I own now and moving along.
Maybe I'll get a Dmoll soon as well.

Good night

 

[MOOSEHEADS]

I like TooL and I enjoy trying to cop his tone even if I have me head up my.......

PEACE OUT!

 

[Ventura]

You know, there's a thread on the main forum about how it would appear people on RT are a lot more argumentative lately.

Just sayin'

Uncle Mo

 

[slyvren]

I like TooL and I enjoy trying to cop his tone even if I have me head up my.......

PEACE OUT!

ok ok ok...

You got me there.

Hey guys, I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I was basically trying to say the same thing steve_k and ericsabbath said. I can just come off like an ass sometimes. I don't think anyone's hurting anyone else here. I just think requesting a re-issue of an old circuit to a man that already has way too much on his plate to cop a sound from a band you love is ridiculous. Kind of how you think my posts were ridiculous. Let's cut the guy some slack and appreciate what he's offering us at the moment. You guys are entitled to spend your time and money how you choose. I just have a wish that there was less copying and more innovation in the music world right now. Didn't meant to take it out on you guys. Just be happy with the Diezels you have they're all amazing!

Now I'm gonna go play some Tool riffs on my VH4.

 

[webrthomson]

Peter do you think it would be possible to bring back the blueface for 2013?

Other than the obvious what are the differences with the early blue faces - I know that there is an extra preamp valve but what is the upshot of that extra valve?

 

[Peter Diezel]

Hmmmmmmmm ........ I don´t know and cannot decide.
How many Blueface models can we sell ?

The original blue colour on the anodized plates
are no more available. We have to order about
220 sets of plates and the manufacture will
deliver. They have big aluminum plates for
anodizing and don´t like to cut them.

For myself I would like to design a new board inside
to the real original electronic specs in 1992. There
were 5 proto amps called DVH100. They look like
the Blueface but had the filter caps inside. On the
back there should be the jacks like we have on the
current amp line with 3 loops, all the switching and
midi stuff.

Would that make sense ?

Best,
Peter

 

[MOOSEHEADS]

Hmmmmmmmm ........ I don´t know and cannot decide.
How many Blueface models can we sell ?

The original blue colour on the anodized plates
are no more available. We have to order about
220 sets of plates and the manufacture will
deliver. They have big aluminum plates for
anodizing and don´t like to cut them.

For myself I would like to design a new board inside
to the real original electronic specs in 1992. There
were 5 proto amps called DVH100. They look like
the Blueface but had the filter caps inside. On the
back there should be the jacks like we have on the
current amp line with 3 loops, all the switching and
midi stuff.

Would that make sense ?

Best,
Peter

I would get one no matter the faceplate color.

 

[Ventura]

Hmmmmmmmm ........ I don´t know and cannot decide.
How many Blueface models can we sell ?

The original blue colour on the anodized plates
are no more available. We have to order about
220 sets of plates and the manufacture will
deliver. They have big aluminum plates for
anodizing and don´t like to cut them.

For myself I would like to design a new board inside
to the real original electronic specs in 1992. There
were 5 proto amps called DVH100. They look like
the Blueface but had the filter caps inside. On the
back there should be the jacks like we have on the
current amp line with 3 loops, all the switching and
midi stuff.

Would that make sense ?

Best,
Peter

Herr Peter,

If you were able to maintain all the elements of manufacture without incurring too much extra expense, I think this could work.

By this I mean:
- forget about having a blue anodized faceplate
- keep the headshell the same as the current headshell
- try to use the same stamped metal chassis as you do for current production VH4 amps

Just create the circuit to the best of its original spec, and put that circuit into what's currently existing. The headshell means nothing, it's the circuit that people are after. Fact is, the "blueface" means nothing, it's just a colour and what it "represents".

If you could recreate the original blueface circuit, put it into your current headshell and try to best use the chassis platform you have, I think this wouldn't cost much in re-tooling. You've got everything covered. As for the amp itself - simply give it a different name than the current script logo. Call it OBF-VH4 or BFLTD (Blue Face Limited) - VH4. So long as people are assured it's the EXACT copy of one of the original prototype blueface amps, they will buy them - guaranteed.

Run 100, maybe even 200 of these and I bet they'll sell at upwards of $7500 a pop.

Thanks for the email
Uncle Mo

 

[jonl]

Mo I don't think many people can afford $7500
I know I can't...
If Peter made a new VH4 designed to sound like the 95 Blueface, I could care less if it was blue.
I would pay what it cost for a new VH4, but not $7500.

 

[brickford]

Hmmmmmmmm ........ I don´t know and cannot decide.
How many Blueface models can we sell ?

The original blue colour on the anodized plates
are no more available. We have to order about
220 sets of plates and the manufacture will
deliver. They have big aluminum plates for
anodizing and don´t like to cut them.

For myself I would like to design a new board inside
to the real original electronic specs in 1992. There
were 5 proto amps called DVH100. They look like
the Blueface but had the filter caps inside. On the
back there should be the jacks like we have on the
current amp line with 3 loops, all the switching and
midi stuff.

Would that make sense ?

Best,
Peter

Herr Peter,

If you were able to maintain all the elements of manufacture without incurring too much extra expense, I think this could work.

By this I mean:
- forget about having a blue anodized faceplate
- keep the headshell the same as the current headshell
- try to use the same stamped metal chassis as you do for current production VH4 amps

Just create the circuit to the best of its original spec, and put that circuit into what's currently existing. The headshell means nothing, it's the circuit that people are after. Fact is, the "blueface" means nothing, it's just a colour and what it "represents".

If you could recreate the original blueface circuit, put it into your current headshell and try to best use the chassis platform you have, I think this wouldn't cost much in re-tooling. You've got everything covered. As for the amp itself - simply give it a different name than the current script logo. Call it OBF-VH4 or BFLTD (Blue Face Limited) - VH4. So long as people are assured it's the EXACT copy of one of the original prototype blueface amps, they will buy them - guaranteed.

Run 100, maybe even 200 of these and I bet they'll sell at upwards of $7500 a pop.

Thanks for the email
Uncle Mo

CAN I PLACE AN ORDER? ? ?

DIBS ON THE #1 RE-RUN.





Could not be possible to just have both circuits within the VH4 and just have a switch to switch "old script circuit" and "New Script circuit" ??

 

[Ventura]

Mo I don't think many people can afford $7500
I know I can't...
If Peter made a new VH4 designed to sound like the 95 Blueface, I could care less if it was blue.
I would pay what it cost for a new VH4, but not $7500.

Well, see, this is where things get a little more interesting. Say YOU want the Blueface. Fine. We now "hypothetically" have this Blueface, but in order to create a feasible and cost effective manufacturing run, we're going to have to consider the fact that the amp is going to cost MORE than the regular run VH4 - a lot more. So you're getting "your cake" with the fact that - in this scenario - the Blueface is available; but now you're getting a bit pushy and saying you're not wanting to pay for it.

Look man, there are a LOT of people out there who'd pay this kinda money for the original circuit - quite possibly many of them popular, famous or well versed musicians with a good size budget. In order for something like this to make sense at the Diezel HQ level, it has to make sense financially - and this also takes into account "contingencies". The fact that YOU may not be willing to pay for it isn't as important as those who WOULD be willing to pay for it. So you're either going to get your cake, or eat your cake, but I don't think it's safe to assume that you'll get both - if at all this hypothetical scenario were to play out.

 

[Ventura]

Could not be possible to just have both circuits within the VH4 and just have a switch to switch "old script circuit" and "New Script circuit" ??

No. From a marketing position point of view, and from a technical manufacturing point of view - KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Make it exactly like the first prototype, and leave it at that. Otherwise you get into this "well the first ones were better because...." or "the newer ones versus the old ones....". Bottom line is make it identical, baring the cosmetics, and that way it's exclusive and exactly what people are wanting.

Done.

 

[jonl]

Understandable... If its $7500 then it's not going to happen for me.
If others can afford then I am going to happy for those who can buy one.

 

[brickford]

Could not be possible to just have both circuits within the VH4 and just have a switch to switch "old script circuit" and "New Script circuit" ??

No. From a marketing position point of view, and from a technical manufacturing point of view - KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Make it exactly like the first prototype, and leave it at that. Otherwise you get into this "well the first ones were better because...." or "the newer ones versus the old ones....". Bottom line is make it identical, baring the cosmetics, and that way it's exclusive and exactly what people are wanting.

Done.

Ok i Get what you are saying,
but you reminded me kinda like the gold/silver klon vs klon ktr tho? wont people still say the old script sounds this "way" as oppose to new "old" script "that way" etc?
It 'll end up a never ending pursuit...

 

[Ventura]

Understandable... If its $7500 then it's not going to happen for me.
If others can afford then I am going to happy for those who can buy one.

Of course, please understand I pulled that number out of my ass. It could be less, it could be more, and most importantly, it may not even happen. But where this comes into a realistic model of business is that:
a) In order to develop these amps, all other amps have to be put on hold.
b) In order to save on costs to develop, and therefore costs to the Buyer, using current chassis and headshells (and colours) is needed.
c) If it is something that is WANTED, worldwide, than people will have to make sacrifices, either in selling their current gear, or bucking up and buying it for what it's worth.
d) Diezel needs to protect themselves to make sure the time spent and the costs to manufacture are all accounted for and profitable.
e) It has to be identical to the first prototypes, not an option on some current model - because otherwise, the mystique of the 1st run will always prevail, and then open the door for consumers to still feel they're not getting the "real deal".

I'd recommend a 50% deposit waitlist. Sign up, cash down, and therefore allow for some of the costs to be covered for Diezel HQ to get started on making them with being protected to some extent.

All said in a hypothetical prose, of course.

Uncle Mo