tallcoolone
Well-known member
Current mustard on the board:
Exo-metal
Well-known member
The power sections of amps pre 90's as you point out are more similar than not. The point is getting brutal tones from the plexi superlead, superbass, or PA for that matter...STOCK amps without the assist from a preamp IN the models prior to '76. All the amps after are excluded. No amount of mustard can get you into this discussion with that list of pedals. None of them are new to us. Sorry but brutal gain/stock superleads was the topic, does this help?
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mentoneman
Well-known member
the biggest advantages i’ve experienced in a well designed high gain amp are the shape of the attack, sustain, bloom, and low noise.
considering how many players use high gain these days for fast staccato riff/chug and quantity over quality solos,
a good tube amp and quality pedal will get the average player i see in the world more than enough of a modded marshall gain vibe and tone for there needs without spending an additional $2-4k.
or i’d encourage a newbie to grab a katana 3 or tonex for a ton of return on a very practical investment.
Exo-metal
Well-known member
That's all true, not relevant to the discussion on how to attain the goods but you always make sense.
Erock
Well-known member
that's the first time I've laughed listening to that song in 23 years, lol. Thank you!
Was listening to that song on the way into work on Wall St on 9/11. Kept replaying in my head that whole day.
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SpiderWars
Well-known member
Yeah lots of people hate them but for me it is essential. I have it on a switch but I never use the switch. That range between about 6-8 on the volume with that cap is where the magic is for me. The upper crunch doesn’t change much, it’s pretty much max upper mid crunch on 6 but the lows fill in more from 6-8. You can dial it in perfectly for bright/dark and low/high output pickups.That big ass bright cap is long gone on my #1. 100pf is my preference. I put the 5k stock one back in my Metalface 69 recently. It is coming back out, freakin’ hate em.
These amps were never designed to be low volume or clean, Marshall knew exactly what that cap did. They were ‘super lead’ rock amps, distorted and brutally loud.
tallcoolone
Well-known member
Not at all, but that’s ok. Nailing down the exact TGP meaning of ‘brutal’ and ‘devastating’ is not something I’m prob going to accomplish today. It’s all subjective—an SD-1 in front of a 2203 is way too much gain for me and I’ve also never seen a depth or bass knob I didn’t want turned down to zero. But I do own a 100W superlead and 2 2204’s along with 2 dozen dirt boxes so I do feel as though my opinion is relevant to the topic
SpiderWars
Well-known member
The TGP meaning of brutal and devastating is a Princeton Reverb on 3 with a slight Klon boost. The entire church was devastated at the brutality.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
For those who have Tinnitus, or hate any version of bright, I understand removing the bright cap. But, for me it absolutely and every time NEUTERS the shit out of the amp...whether we are talking 2203 or 1959.
Tried it, hated it, immediately put the cap back in. In both MV and NMV Marshalls.
Greazygeo
Well-known member
Princeton you say?
I have been using one alot lately instead of lugging my big stuff to rehearse. I still can’t believe how good this thing sounds and it actually keeps up just fine with a loud drummer. Never would have thought…..
Greazygeo
Well-known member
100pf for me. That upper mid thing, not a fan.
Bram576
Well-known member
This sounds gnarly
mentoneman
Well-known member
sorry for my tangential brain!
my baseline driven marshall plexi tones are very low gain by many modern players standards.
if you poke around on this marshall shootout soundcloud clip i made to find the description notes you’ll see what amp (peacemaker, superbass, 12000 series superlead) and gtr (tyler, suhr, prs) is being used at different time stamps:
getting from that starting point to “convincing” boutique levels of crushing modern gain with a pedal is challenging.
tangent warning
:i played a tom anderson ssh strat into a soldano astroverb 20 head/marshall basketweave 4x12 today and it was pretty darn enjoyable! clean and blues dirty were very musical and high gain was soldano massive—all quick and easy to dial in, at non heart stopping volumes!
Exo-metal
Well-known member
I have a '68 PA and I'm thinking of possibly using it in a low gain setting to run a Preamp. The comment below from the Marshall forum about another PA is described as a tube mixer circuit. That makes me wonder if a low gain mod to better couple to a high gain preamp/distortion source. Anyone familiar with this idea? I was searching tube amp mixer circuits and I'm not sure the PA does or does not have this as part of the design. If it does then one mod could be that where the input signals are summed at the grid to the amplifier before the plate is the point that a resistor change there could further limit the outboard preamp?
This other point on the bottom R is another point to couple at the cathode. Taken from the same web page about tube amp mixers.
This other point on the bottom R is another point to couple at the cathode. Taken from the same web page about tube amp mixers.
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acceptance
Well-known member
Are we talking 800s now? How about the low gain input? Or the return if you've got a loop?
Exo-metal
Well-known member
Still non master old dog Marshall's. The tube mixer circuit comment is making me think that is the key to using a non master properly with your distortion pedals or high gain preamp that I want to use.
Maybe everyone has never used an old Marshall the right way to get high gain tones out of it the problem being front loading it without a low gain mod to accept distortion metal heads have always wanted.
The 2203/04 discussion is different because it's internal preamp is coupled to a external boost. Far different concept.
Maybe everyone has never used an old Marshall the right way to get high gain tones out of it the problem being front loading it without a low gain mod to accept distortion metal heads have always wanted.
The 2203/04 discussion is different because it's internal preamp is coupled to a external boost. Far different concept.
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Greazygeo
Well-known member
I had moved the low input jack on my 2203 /04 to the input of the phase inverter bypassing the preamp all together. Ran my plexi into load box / fx then into those power sections. Sounded great.
Amp woukd work as normal if plugged into the high gain input.
There is a Riekerz show on my youtube channel where I was running that setup.
Amp woukd work as normal if plugged into the high gain input.
There is a Riekerz show on my youtube channel where I was running that setup.
cardinal
Well-known member
That's a cool idea.
Greazygeo
Well-known member
It worked well. Presence control still worked. Could place it feeding into the MV too, I didn’t want any extra controls to deal with…there was already too many options.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
The PA heads are sort of like two bass heads side by side, sharing the tone controls and power amp. That extra second pair of channels loads down the signal going into V2 so they lose gain there. They also don't have any bright caps or bypass caps. So they lose gain and brightness there. That might be a good neutral palette for gain pedals.
I have a '70 PA head, I need to try this.