Cab and speaker recommendations (need a huge sound at low volumes)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tommy Von Voigt
  • Start date Start date
Tommy Von Voigt said:
Good catch, and yes, I did make sure to tighten down every single screw in both cabs (not the speakers themselves, of course). I was suspicious that the original G12H30 quad in the 73 cab had been pummeled into submission, which was sad, since they look like they are in great shape. That's why I tried the Scumbacks. Turns out, I think it may be the perfect storm of the wrong cab choice and the wrong speaker choice for my volume needs.

With the 82 cab, it is possible they are worn out. I don't know the history of that cab, but it has a band logo stenciled on the top, so for all I know it could have been toured heavily. And it was rewired at some point to 4ohm, which I've since changed. So, it's been around the block.

The thing is, I've been in one band or another since 1998. I've had so much gear, and so many 4x12s. And while I've done my fair share of cranking these things up at rehearsal spaces and on stages around the country, I've also heard plenty of 4x12s at super low volumes. There is something going on with this current situation that just is wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm sure my living room is far from ideal, acoustically, but I've also rehearsed in plenty of metal walled storage units way back in the day. That's about as far from ideal as it gets.

I just keep thinking it's the combination of the volume I'm trying to play at, these particular cabs, and these particular speaker choices. It seems to be a recipe that just does NOT work. The two cabs couldn't sound more different if they tried, and they sound terrible together.
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I can tell of 'almost' the same exp with blackbacks from the mid-late 70s. They sounded average at best at a low-med volume but did sound great super loud. But I also had a cream back cab from 74, same 1777 cones and they sounded killer at any volume. Tried 3 of those BB cabs and the same thing..just no character unless they were stage level loud-like outdoor or arena loud. Didn't matter whether the BBs were M25 or H30 same result. Learned my lesson and never chased another. Those cream backs were the far better cab than any of those BB cabs. Now I found a Pulsonic cab from 72 and that's the cats ass.
 
^^also I should mention, the 65s had a TON of cone revisions but still had the same core tone...I've had 2 79s, an 81 and 83 and the only differences is the brightness. 79s being the brightest. After playing my 79 I'd plug into the 83 and just turn up the treble and match the tone from the 79. And, more than almost any other speaker they sound their best super loud. But I feel they sound good at a low volume too.
 
From personal experience, unless you break the 107 db range, you will barely be heard outside your house. IE, your neighbor would have to be at your door or close, unless you live in a duplex. I know this cuz when i bought my wireless, I had to get to 113 dbs to hear myself playing on the street in front of my house with the front door closed. Even if you want to do it for a couple minutes, it will tell you if you have a broken setup, or if your amp is begging for some fucking juice.
 
Another great cabinet that is small but sounds huge is the Mesa Thiele. I have two that I stack and there’s more low end than a single 4x12
 
Once you verify that the cab is wired properly and all speakers are in phase, try moving the cab around the room
Even in my heavily treated live room, there are a couple spots where my cabs sound like shit. Could be something as simple as cab position and standing waves messing with the tone
 
Something seems very wrong. Both of those are nice cabs that should sound amazing at whatever volume with your amps.

I use the same Marshall cab with G12-65 and with those types of amps, it always sounds good. I have a Germino 2x12 with the same speakers, and it also sounds great.

What your describing seems not right. Maybe everything in your rig just isn't the type of gear you're suited for? Not sure what's going on.
 
It sounds to me like you want the best of all worlds that you will never get.
 
Rdodson said:
Those Scumbacks are exactly like the G12-65s.

Put a pair of V30s on the bottom and you’ll be set. Those really don’t need any volume to get going.
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I also like the Avatar Hellatone V30s, which are just broken in V30s. The V30s seem to be really responsive at low volumes, which may be due in part to their high efficiency (idk?). I just know I get lively response at home volumes, and they just roar at stage volume in a good 4x12. I have a pair of Egnater Tourmaster 412As, and they rock.
 
mixn4him said:
Yea Port City, Mesa Thiele, Pacific Cabs, EVH 1x12's. Almost anything ported with the EV12L will give you that polished, huge tone..
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And what about open / semi open back with EVM12Ls? How does that stack up against a ported cab? Same thing? Different?
 
mixn4him said:
Not a fan, you loose all that tight bass the EV can produce. Great for Jazz or super clean not so much for "Polished Metal"...
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Can a ported 2x12 do the trick? Or would it have to be a 1x12?
 
Either way, obviously a 2x12 will be louder and feel fuller...Just depends on how big you want to deal with ..
 
mixn4him said:
Either way, obviously a 2x12 will be louder and feel fuller...Just depends on how big you want to deal with ..
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Fortunately, size and weight isn't an issue. Whatever I get, it will take the place of two 4x12s, so anything will be smaller than that
 
I went ahead and checked every single one of the G12H30s that had come out of the 73 cab. With a multimeter, and I also did the 9 volt battery trick, just to make sure nothing was actually reverse polarity and just labeled wrong. These speakers check out perfect. I also went ahead and checked the Scumback M75-LDs that I had put in that cab. Not that I had any reason to suspect something was wrong with Jim's speakers...just wanted to be thorough. No surprise, they are absolutely fine as well. The G12H30 cones move a bit more than the Scumbacks, which I suppose is to be expected since they are almost 50 years old. But otherwise, nothing weird with any of my ohm readings, nothing funky going on with polarity.

I hate to say it, but I'm at a loss here. 2 different quads of speakers sounded dreadful in that 73 straight cab. On paper, both quads should have sounded killer, even at mouse fart volumes (and I've been doing loud TV volumes anyway).

I was willing to believe the G12H30s were pummeled into submission. I'm just not willing to believe the Scumbacks are somehow also no good.

I've tried 5 different guitars, and something is weird no matter which one I use.

I've tested my speakers cables, and swapped them around. I've tested and tried 3 different guitar cables.

I've tried a 68 Plexi / Hopkins Pandora, I've tried my Ceriatone King Kong, I've tried the Syn-2 with the SLO module into a Fryette 2502, and I've even tried going right into some pedals, and then into the 2502. And there is something weird about both cabs.

So, that leaves:

• Somehow the wiring is still wrong, even though I followed that diagram from the Scumback site exactly for both cabs
• There is something magically, disastrously wrong with the room acoustics, and it's fighting 4x12s like I've never encountered before, ever
• The 73 cab is cursed, and the 82 G12-65 cab is just super dark and muffled

I'm not really sure at this point which is more likely.

I think my next move here is the big loud testing day I have booked at a rehearsal studio, on the 6th. I'm bringing literally every piece of gear I have, EXCEPT for the two cabs (logistically it would be a nightmare). The room I booked has 2 newer Marshall slant cabs w/ G12T-75s, 2 Mesa 4x12s with V30s, two Fender combo amps, and even a JC-120. I can test all my gear at volumes ranging from mouse fart to RUN AWAY!!!! and see what's what.

After that, maybe I just go ahead and order a 2x12, and before I buy any more speakers, try the Scumbacks in there, and see what I get.
 
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