Cab and speaker recommendations (need a huge sound at low volumes)

[rm5153]

In my home studio I run 2 real 412 cabinets with Greenbacks on top and V30's on the bottom. I have high end 100 watt tube heads and all of these go through my Boss WAZA TAE for attenuation and to power my cabinets. I also run a AXE 3 or a Fractal FX8 in 4CM with all of my heads. Mainly I run the AXE 3 and also run 2 Friedman FRFR ASM12 wedges running IR impulses. Not to digress further but I can get a huge tone (think EVH on steroids) out of all of my heads and all these cabinets at literally WHISPER volumes. I play 99.999% of the time at WHISPER volume levels and my tone is gigantic. I attribute the Boss WAZA TAE for allowing me to attenuate the volume and this corresponds to great cabinet to amp interaction at lower volumes. It is also nice to run IR responses through the FRFR cabinets in conjunction with the real 412 cabinets as this really fills in the sonic palette quite nicely. I always run a boost or drive in front of all of my heads and on the quiet patches I juice the drive of the pedal a little more to goose the amp when playing quiet.

 

[cardinal]

I went ahead and checked every single one of the G12H30s that had come out of the 73 cab. With a multimeter, and I also did the 9 volt battery trick, just to make sure nothing was actually reverse polarity and just labeled wrong. These speakers check out perfect. I also went ahead and checked the Scumback M75-LDs that I had put in that cab. Not that I had any reason to suspect something was wrong with Jim's speakers...just wanted to be thorough. No surprise, they are absolutely fine as well. The G12H30 cones move a bit more than the Scumbacks, which I suppose is to be expected since they are almost 50 years old. But otherwise, nothing weird with any of my ohm readings, nothing funky going on with polarity.

I hate to say it, but I'm at a loss here. 2 different quads of speakers sounded dreadful in that 73 straight cab. On paper, both quads should have sounded killer, even at mouse fart volumes (and I've been doing loud TV volumes anyway).

I was willing to believe the G12H30s were pummeled into submission. I'm just not willing to believe the Scumbacks are somehow also no good.

I've tried 5 different guitars, and something is weird no matter which one I use.

I've tested my speakers cables, and swapped them around. I've tested and tried 3 different guitar cables.

I've tried a 68 Plexi / Hopkins Pandora, I've tried my Ceriatone King Kong, I've tried the Syn-2 with the SLO module into a Fryette 2502, and I've even tried going right into some pedals, and then into the 2502. And there is something weird about both cabs.

So, that leaves:

• Somehow the wiring is still wrong, even though I followed that diagram from the Scumback site exactly for both cabs
• There is something magically, disastrously wrong with the room acoustics, and it's fighting 4x12s like I've never encountered before, ever
• The 73 cab is cursed, and the 82 G12-65 cab is just super dark and muffled

I'm not really sure at this point which is more likely.

I think my next move here is the big loud testing day I have booked at a rehearsal studio, on the 6th. I'm bringing literally every piece of gear I have, EXCEPT for the two cabs (logistically it would be a nightmare). The room I booked has 2 newer Marshall slant cabs w/ G12T-75s, 2 Mesa 4x12s with V30s, two Fender combo amps, and even a JC-120. I can test all my gear at volumes ranging from mouse fart to RUN AWAY!!!! and see what's what.

After that, maybe I just go ahead and order a 2x12, and before I buy any more speakers, try the Scumbacks in there, and see what I get.

The rehearsal room is a good idea. I might also try grabbing one of your heads and taking it down to a Guitar Center or other music shop and going through some of their amps and cabinets.

What you're describing doesn't really make sense. How you get it sorted, but I wonder if you just don't like your gear.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

The rehearsal room is a good idea. I might also try grabbing one of your heads and taking it down to a Guitar Center or other music shop and going through some of their amps and cabinets.

What you're describing doesn't really make sense. How you get it sorted, but I wonder if you just don't like your gear.

I'm certainly willing to entertain any possibility at this point. I mean, you have to, if you really want to solve a problem.

I won't even pretend that I'm not frustrated and baffled by what's going on. It's hard not to feel a bit defeated.

I actually hope it turns out to be something stupid and obvious, perhaps even embarrassing. I'll happily share it regardless of how silly it may be.

 

[anomaly]

I'm certainly willing to entertain any possibility at this point. I mean, you have to, if you really want to solve a problem.

I won't even pretend that I'm not frustrated and baffled by what's going on. It's hard not to feel a bit defeated.

I actually hope it turns out to be something stupid and obvious, perhaps even embarrassing. I'll happily share it regardless of how silly it may be.

Maybe your speaker cable is the culprit?? Nah, probably not.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

Maybe your speaker cable is the culprit?? Nah, probably not.

I'm entertaining all ideas here. I have 3 speaker cables, and 2 guitar cables. It does not matter which ones I use, and I also checked them with a meter anyway.

I also went ahead and plugged into the 73 cab again, now that the original speakers are back in it. And...it sounds terrible. Note that this time around, rather than wiring it in Series / Parallel, I tried Parallel / Series. No improvement at all.

I suppose it's also plausible I have something wrong with the 68 Pexi, the King Kong 50, and the brand new Fryette 2502?

I fully recognize how screwy this whole situation is...the 82 cab sounds boxy and dark and kinda muffled. The 73 cab sounds weird and strange, quite like what I would imagine it would sound like if you were stuck with a little neck pickup bleeding into the bridge pickup, and also maybe one of the preamp tubes was weak. It also sounds "small" somehow. And together, the cabs are a nightmare.

I've tried numerous guitars. Some are better than others, but there is something wrong no matter what I plug in. I am currently still in the completely baffled stage.

I'm going to figure this out. I have to. Who knows how long it will take...

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

Well, I spent a long day at a rehearsal studio yesterday, and even brought along my 82 cab, and I have to say, I wasn't crazy. I just don't like the way my 2 Marshall cabs sound. At all. At low volumes, they are just a train wreck. With the 82 cab, giving it some proper volume brought it to "meh" levels. It still beat the pants off of the pair of G12T-75 equipped cabs that were also in the room.

But then I tried a pair fo Mesa OS 4x12s w/ Vintage 30s, and suddenly everything sounded good. The Syn-2 w/ SLO module, into a Fryette 2502, into those Mesa cabs, sounded awesome. Even at whisper volumes, it all still held together in a manner that would be perfectly serviceable and reasonable. I tried the Ceriatone King Kong 50 through one of the Mesa cabs, and it was the best that amp has EVER sounded. It was absolutely killer!

So, I don't know what to say, really. The 82 cab w/ G12-65s is just not going to work for me. I can't give it volume at home, and even if I could, I know now that there are better cabs / speakers for my needs anyway. The 73 cab sounds aggressively terrible at low volumes with either the original quad, or the Scumback M75-LDs, so that cab is going to get shown the door (disclaimer: I did not get a chance to try out this cab, or the Scumbacks, at volume). My suspicion for the Scumbacks is that I'm just never going to be able to give them the juice at home that they need to really do their thing, so knowing that, I'm going to sell those. I think they belong in a 4x12 that's going to be regularly gigged. I'm just wasting their time, really.

So, I'm back to looking for a pair of cabs that will equal or best those Mesa OS 4x12s w/ Vintage 30s, but be able to do so at low volumes.

 

[Nigel]

Well, I spent a long day at a rehearsal studio yesterday, and even brought along my 82 cab, and I have to say, I wasn't crazy. I just don't like the way my 2 Marshall cabs sound. At all. At low volumes, they are just a train wreck. With the 82 cab, giving it some proper volume brought it to "meh" levels. It still beat the pants off of the pair of G12T-75 equipped cabs that were also in the room.

But then I tried a pair fo Mesa OS 4x12s w/ Vintage 30s, and suddenly everything sounded good. The Syn-2 w/ SLO module, into a Fryette 2502, into those Mesa cabs, sounded awesome. Even at whisper volumes, it all still held together in a manner that would be perfectly serviceable and reasonable. I tried the Ceriatone King Kong 50 through one of the Mesa cabs, and it was the best that amp has EVER sounded. It was absolutely killer!

So, I don't know what to say, really. The 82 cab w/ G12-65s is just not going to work for me. I can't give it volume at home, and even if I could, I know now that there are better cabs / speakers for my needs anyway. The 73 cab sounds aggressively terrible at low volumes with either the original quad, or the Scumback M75-LDs, so that cab is going to get shown the door (disclaimer: I did not get a chance to try out this cab, or the Scumbacks, at volume). My suspicion for the Scumbacks is that I'm just never going to be able to give them the juice at home that they need to really do their thing, so knowing that, I'm going to sell those. I think they belong in a 4x12 that's going to be regularly gigged. I'm just wasting their time, really.

So, I'm back to looking for a pair of cabs that will equal or best those Mesa OS 4x12s w/ Vintage 30s, but be able to do so at low volumes.

Came to post that you want the real Mesa T4335/T4416 in a ported or open back 112.

When I play low volume with my Orange BHT at 1 watt, it sounds “right.”

When I want big bottle tone at low volume, I run my Zinky Mofo with the treble and bass at 10 and the mids at 5 for Fletcher-Munsen “Loudness.” This is into my Rivera M60 1x12 semi open back with 1” birch baffle and Mesa T4335 8 ohm V30. I want for nothing now. That Mesa speaker is the V30 tone everyone longs for.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

Came to post that you want the real Mesa T4335/T4416 in a ported or open back 112.

When I play low volume with my Orange BHT at 1 watt, it sounds “right.”

When I want big bottle tone at low volume, I run my Zinky Mofo with the treble and bass at 10 and the mids at 5 for Fletcher-Munsen “Loudness.” This is into my Rivera M60 1x12 semi open back with 1” birch baffle and Mesa T4335 8 ohm V30. I want for nothing now. That Mesa speaker is the V30 tone everyone longs for.

I do see that Mesa has the UK made Vintage 30s available for individual purchase, in both 8 or 16 ohm flavor. These would be the ones, right? They don't actually list the T numbers for them. But, they sure do look like what was in those 2 cabs I played through yesterday. I'm thinking I'd want the 8 ohm. That's what was in those cabs.

 

[Nigel]

I do see that Mesa has the UK made Vintage 30s available for individual purchase, in both 8 or 16 ohm flavor. These would be the ones, right? They don't actually list the T numbers for them. But, they sure do look like what was in those 2 cabs I played through yesterday. I'm thinking I'd want the 8 ohm. That's what was in those cabs.

Hell yeah! 8’s are what I know and what they seem to prefer, tone wise. I’d expect the 16 to be punchier with more bottom and top, but I’ve not heard one. You can likely get a Mesa bro on the horn to describe the differences. I know I prefer the 8 ohm Mesa to my ‘97 16 ohm UK V30 by a good deal. The 16 ohm is more “explosive” sounding, but it’s in a lighter cab with thinner wood, and it does rock, but there’s something weird in the mids that I cannot unhear once I catch on. Don’t use it much as a result. Probably sell it for a Mesa sooner than later.

 

[Geo]

I have a 4'x12 loaded with 2 g12m's and 2 g12h30's that I am not digging on. If you are anywhere near north nj, I would trade you for the 65's.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

I have a 4'x12 loaded with 2 g12m's and 2 g12h30's that I am not digging on. If you are anywhere near north nj, I would trade you for the 65's.

I'm in Harlem, actually. Not too far away at all. But, I'm way too nervous about those G12H30s. That's what is in the 73 cab I have here, and I intensely dislike the way they sound. They are the 55hz versions.

 

[Geo]

I'm in Harlem, actually. Not too far away at all. But, I'm way too nervous about those G12H30s. That's what is in the 73 cab I have here, and I intensely dislike the way they sound. They are the 55hz versions.

Yup, not a fan either.

 

[Geo]

Just an FYI, I hear people raving about the Friedman 1x12 with the creamback.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

I have a 4'x12 loaded with 2 g12m's and 2 g12h30's that I am not digging on. If you are anywhere near north nj, I would trade you for the 65's.

You know, I'd sell the 82 slant cab with the G12-65s. Or maybe even just the speakers out of it. It's not something I would consider shipping, but since you're as close as you are, it could make sense. I've also got the quad of Scumback M75-LDs I tried that weren't working for me. I'm going to sell those as well.

 

[Geo]

You know, I'd sell the 82 slant cab with the G12-65s. Or maybe even just the speakers out of it. It's not something I would consider shipping, but since you're as close as you are, it could make sense. I've also got the quad of Scumback M75-LDs I tried that weren't working for me. I'm going to sell those as well.

I would be interested in just the 65's I have too many cabinets.

The best sound I mustards was 100w Plexi into a Hotplate. Out of the hot plate into a 4x12 with CL80's. Line out of the hot plate into a Lexicon rack unit, into a Peavey 50/50 stereo power amp into an open back 2x12 with Celstion blues full wet.

Sounded great.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

I would be interested in just the 65's I have too many cabinets.

The best sound I mustards was 100w Plexi into a Hotplate. Out of the hot plate into a 4x12 with CL80's. Line out of the hot plate into a Lexicon rack unit, into a Peavey 50/50 stereo power amp into an open back 2x12 with Celstion blues full wet.

Sounded great.

Yeah, what the heck, I can do that. Maybe I'll just load a quad of the Mesa V30s into the emptied cab. Wanna shoot me a PM?

 

[Nigel]

Yeah, what the heck, I can do that. Maybe I'll just load a quad of the Mesa V30s into the emptied cab. Wanna shoot me a PM?

Mesa wires them parallel series, or series at the jack. I recommend the Aiken diagram with a switch so you can have both P/S ans S/P by putting one wire in and out of the circuit.

 

[Tommy Von Voigt]

I've decided to cancel the order for the Mesa Vintage 30s for now, since I found one of the oversized Mesa cabs for sale nearby. I'm going to pick it up this Thursday. Fingers crossed that this does what I'm looking for when I get it home!

 

[kmanick]

maybe V30's are the sound you're looking for.
I've got an 86 JCM800 slant 4X12. When I got it it had a quad of the ventedG12T-75's (first version) it sounded much better than expected
but still to shrill straight on. I had a cab builder redo the grill cloth and make me a real wood back panel and then I loaded it with M75's on top and J75's on bottom.
At low volume it sounds very good but the more juice I put into it the better it sounds.
My Splawn 2x12 when it had 25 watt small blocks is actually a better low volume cab as those speakers break up pretty quick.
I pulled them for a pair of M75's because I gig with it and it sounds glorious with volume going through it.
does you 800 cab have a particle board back panel?

 

[Nigel]

I've decided to cancel the order for the Mesa Vintage 30s for now, since I found one of the oversized Mesa cabs for sale nearby. I'm going to pick it up this Thursday. Fingers crossed that this does what I'm looking for when I get it home!

Based and MesaOSpilled.