casters = the tone suck

[Meathead]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

Damn Shea...I used to be a FOH soundman for a long time before I started playing guitar in a band again five years ago.
The high-pass filter was my friend with a lot of guitar players miked stage sound. Tons of whoosh, mids hidden...when guitarists started showing up with guitar subs...what a nightmare, so unnecessary.
Warmth is one thing...pants vibrating sub lows on a guitar tone? Heavy, fat CD tones don't sound like.

 

[Digital Jams]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

I was thinking that too

I get a fuller, richer sound with more sustain as well.

I don't feel or hear it getting muddier really.

More sustain

Hey I needs to get one of those wigs for next year's Egnater build, I am going strawberry blond

 

[guitarslinger]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

I was thinking that too

I get a fuller, richer sound with more sustain as well.

I don't feel or hear it getting muddier really.

More sustain

Hey I needs to get one of those wigs for next year's Egnater build, I am going strawberry blond

just watch out for the soldering iron and that synthetic wig fiber.

I wonder if I can get an IE4 modded to have the EG5 channel???

 

[Digital Jams]

I MAY have an RM4 by then, I will bring it if I have it

 

[Telephant]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

Damn Shea...I used to be a FOH soundman for a long time before I started playing guitar in a band again five years ago.
The high-pass filter was my friend with a lot of guitar players miked stage sound. Tons of whoosh, mids hidden...when guitarists started showing up with guitar subs...what a nightmare, so unnecessary.
Warmth is one thing...pants vibrating sub lows on a guitar tone? Heavy, fat CD tones don't sound like.

Well guitar subs are just assinine IMO.

But removing the casters from my cab has never made my bands mix muddy. In fact I actually thought it made our mix sound better. But I dont run a ridiculous amount of a low end and I rarely play with another guitar player.

One would think if you're mix is being muddied up by guitar the first place to look is the amps eq settings, not whether or not the cab has castors.

 

[Telephant]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

I was thinking that too

I get a fuller, richer sound with more sustain as well.

I don't feel or hear it getting muddier really.

Glad Im not the only who feels this way. Again though, Im really only talking about Non master volume Marshalls and 4x12 cabs. Thats where my experience comes from.

Clay Finley and I have tried different NONMV JMP's through different vintage Marshall cabs, some with casters, some without, some with basketweave grills, some with checkered etc etc... And they all sounded different.

However, when we went from one checked cab with castors, to another checkerd (or was it basketweave?) without castors I noticed a big improvement in sustain.

And Ive noticed it during rehearsals too. When I first got my castors back on, we were praciticing and I noticed my tone sounded a little less full and little less sustain. Took the castors off... And i was back where I wanted to be.

Ive actually talked about this with my band ad nauseum.

 

[Meathead]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

Damn Shea...I used to be a FOH soundman for a long time before I started playing guitar in a band again five years ago.
The high-pass filter was my friend with a lot of guitar players miked stage sound. Tons of whoosh, mids hidden...when guitarists started showing up with guitar subs...what a nightmare, so unnecessary.
Warmth is one thing...pants vibrating sub lows on a guitar tone? Heavy, fat CD tones don't sound like.

Well guitar subs are just assinine IMO.

But removing the casters from my cab has never made my bands mix muddy. In fact I actually thought it made our mix sound better. But I dont run a ridiculous amount of a low end and I rarely play with another guitar player.

One would think if you're mix is being muddied up by guitar the first place to look is the amps eq settings, not whether or not the cab has castors.

I know what you are saying, not saying I know best, just my opinion. I used to like my cabs on the ground, I've just gotten used to not doing that anymore and now when I do have a cab resting on the floor I don't like the extra lows it adds.

 

[vchizzle]

That's why Orange cabs don't have casters at all. The wood slats on the bottom of the cab "connect" the cab to the stage. that's the whole idea behind their cabs.

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

Damn Shea...I used to be a FOH soundman for a long time before I started playing guitar in a band again five years ago.
The high-pass filter was my friend with a lot of guitar players miked stage sound. Tons of whoosh, mids hidden...when guitarists started showing up with guitar subs...what a nightmare, so unnecessary.
Warmth is one thing...pants vibrating sub lows on a guitar tone? Heavy, fat CD tones don't sound like.

Well guitar subs are just assinine IMO.

But removing the casters from my cab has never made my bands mix muddy. In fact I actually thought it made our mix sound better. But I dont run a ridiculous amount of a low end and I rarely play with another guitar player.

One would think if you're mix is being muddied up by guitar the first place to look is the amps eq settings, not whether or not the cab has castors.

I agree.

 

[Meathead]

oops

 

[Meathead]

That's why Orange cabs don't have casters at all. The wood slats on the bottom of the cab "connect" the cab to the stage. that's the whole idea behind their cabs.

Well guitar subs are just assinine IMO.

But removing the casters from my cab has never made my bands mix muddy. In fact I actually thought it made our mix sound better. But I dont run a ridiculous amount of a low end and I rarely play with another guitar player.

One would think if you're mix is being muddied up by guitar the first place to look is the amps eq settings, not whether or not the cab has castors.

I agree.

If you gig a lot you really run into problems where some stages your rig sounds good on the floor because the stage isn't too resonant (the stage isn't hollow underneath) and other stages are just really boomy and your feet are actually vibrating from all the bass from the guitar, bass and kick drum. I've gotten used to my sound off the floor and now I like my tone in every room I play...it's consistent. It's a real drag walking into a gig not knowing if you are going to like the stage resonance or not....so I take that out of the equation by being used to my amp not flat on the stage.

 

[vchizzle]

That's why Orange cabs don't have casters at all. The wood slats on the bottom of the cab "connect" the cab to the stage. that's the whole idea behind their cabs.

Well guitar subs are just assinine IMO.

But removing the casters from my cab has never made my bands mix muddy. In fact I actually thought it made our mix sound better. But I dont run a ridiculous amount of a low end and I rarely play with another guitar player.

One would think if you're mix is being muddied up by guitar the first place to look is the amps eq settings, not whether or not the cab has castors.

I agree.

If you gig a lot you really run into problems where some stages your rig sounds good on the floor because the stage isn't too resonant (the stage isn't hollow underneath) and other stages are just really boomy and your feet are actually vibrating from all the bass from the guitar, bass and kick drum. I've gotten used to my sound off the floor and now I like my tone in every room I play...it's consistent. It's a real drag walking into a gig not knowing if you are going to like the stage resonance or not....so I take that out of the equation by being used to my amp not flat on the stage.

I don't disagree that you'll get different sound by different stage materials and what's underneath. I just haven't run into my rig being muddy is all. my casters come off if we headline a show. if we are an opening band, I don't bother cause my rig is pretty big and I don't waste the time with it. your tone will likely be more consistent with the casters on. replying to the original poster, no casters pretty much always = more resonant tone. case and point:
the 1st time I played a coliseum sized show. our bass player had a 350W ampeg solid state head and an 8x10 cab. we had tons of room on stage(not usually the case) so we were all furthur from our amps than usual. we ended up laying his 8x10 on its side and it helped him hear himself alot better, especially we he wasn't near a monitor.
could stage resonance be a problem? of course. but i've run into brighter thinner sounding rooms more often than having an issue with boominess with stage resonance.

 

[Odin]

I agree, except if you have a good PA it doesn't fight with the bass player out front at all - the bass player completely covers it up.

But it's still there, and the room acoustics take hold where the AUDIENCE is standing, possibly destroying the mix. And how many people or venues really have truly good PAs? I've seen maybe...one.

You aren't going to hear it, so just don't have it there.

Our band has a good PA and the rooms that provide sound either have a good PA (rarely) or we bring our own.

I work as a sound engineer in a venue with a great PA that always makes bass players happy - (8) JBL 15's and (8) JBL 18's, all with Crown 200 watt power amps on each pair. Some bass players just choose to run direct and skip the amp in our venue since they get their own monitor mix and there is no need for an amp for the room, but most prefer to have some stage volume. I also prefer to hear everything on stage (from the amp, not in the monitors).

But I agree with you, there is no need to have the lower freq's prominent in the guitar cabs because it won't cut through the mix and it's just wasting amp power on freqs that won't be heard.

 

[Odin]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

Damn Shea...I used to be a FOH soundman for a long time before I started playing guitar in a band again five years ago.
The high-pass filter was my friend with a lot of guitar players miked stage sound. Tons of whoosh, mids hidden...when guitarists started showing up with guitar subs...what a nightmare, so unnecessary.
Warmth is one thing...pants vibrating sub lows on a guitar tone? Heavy, fat CD tones don't sound like.

Ditto...I run the HP filter on ALL guitars in our venue. In fact, the only channels that DON'T get the HPF are kick drum, floor toms, bass and sometimes keyboards (depending on the key player's patches) - everything else is high-passed.

 

[Odin]

I've not had the problem of a cab on the floor making the guitar sound bad, if the guitar sounds bad it's always the player, the amp settings, or the gear. But I don't notice much difference in our venue whether the guitar player sets his cab on the floor, on casters, or on an amp stand.

I prefer the sound of my amps on the floor also. But setting cabs on the floor means that every room will sound different, some dramatically so. When I play combo amps at gigs I always put them on an amp stand because it's consistent and lowers the stage volume having the amp closer to your ears.

With sealed cabs I only play 1x12 and 2x12 cabs these days. On the 2x12 I mounted the casters on the bottom and I usually set it on the floor sideways (speakers over/under).

I prefer a bass player with a good tonal range and full sound (not all rumble) and I prefer my guitar to focus on the mids and upper mids (Dr Z Maz 18 & 38 amps for 1 band and a Splawn Quickrod for the other band) so I'm not much into rumble.

 

['63-Strat]

And BTW you guys are saying a cab without casters can cause too much bass and muddy up the mix?

I was thinking that too

I get a fuller, richer sound with more sustain as well.

I don't feel or hear it getting muddier really.

Glad Im not the only who feels this way. Again though, Im really only talking about Non master volume Marshalls and 4x12 cabs. Thats where my experience comes from.

Clay Finley and I have tried different NONMV JMP's through different vintage Marshall cabs, some with casters, some without, some with basketweave grills, some with checkered etc etc... And they all sounded different.

However, when we went from one checked cab with castors, to another checkerd (or was it basketweave?) without castors I noticed a big improvement in sustain.

And Ive noticed it during rehearsals too. When I first got my castors back on, we were praciticing and I noticed my tone sounded a little less full and little less ustain. Took the castors off... And i was back where I wanted to be.

Ive actually talked about this with my band ad nauseum.

I think ideally, it could help sustain, makes sense to me anyways. Its obviously a personal preference thing. I do not like it much when I see band's guitarists hogging all the space and making the mix either muddy, or fighting the bass player. I'm sure in a trio format, so long as you're not doing that its all good. With two guitarists playing humbuckers and crunch through high gain type tones I think it may be more of an issue. And I like a full spectrum bass tone too. Low lows, lots of mids and clarity, yum

 

[J.B.]

People ak me why I have my cabs on their sides all the time. Just sounds better to me.

 

[guitarslinger]

of course, all of my cabs happen to be sideways at the moment.

 

[Qweklain]

It also depends what kind fo ground it is sitting on as well. I don't think there is going to be much of a difference from casters to being on the floor with sper soft carpet for example. I think the harder the floor, the more noticeable the difference with direct cab contact vs. casters/lifted.

 

[thegame]

If a cab sounds shitty with casters, its a shitty cab.
My Bogner 4x12 sounds clearer to me with them on. Its a straight BTW. Almost too much bass with the casters removed.

 

[kosta]

this depends entirely on the room you are in.

for recording guitar i always decouple it from the floor -

for live use - you are better off working on your abs than worrying about this