D Moll vs Hagen

[ja71cam]

So....long time lurker finally needing to ask a question. I'm going to be buying one of these amps....so not looking for suggestions of other amps. I've read about these 2 in all the other great posts in this forum and others. I've listened to as many clips as I could find......Ola's clips get me the closest to finding my answer but I figured I'd ask in here because I know there are a few of you that have these amps and know your stuff....plus the Master himself (Peter D) sometimes chimes in.

For some background first. For years I played mainly Les Pauls and I've played/owned many amps and had gotten rid of ALL my gear a few years ago. My last rig that I had was a Fryette Deliverance 120 thru a FB 4x12(p50's) and a Laney GH50 thru a Mesa traditional 4x12 with WGS Reaper 55's in the top and WGS BL 80's in the bottom....ran both together and used my volume knob for "cleanish" tones. The only effects I used was an old Ross Flanger into a Lehle P Split into the front end of both amps and a TC Nova Repeater in the loop of the Laney. It sounded huge and was a tone monster.

My favorite amps that I've owned or had good access to are the Deliverance, Pitbull UL, Bogner XTC and Uberschall. I've played the VH4 and Einstein and liked them both for different reasons. I've always liked the thickness and gain structure of Diezels as well as their low noise. Simply put....a Diezel is a Diezel and it's time for me to buy one.....and I know it's what I want for MY tone at this point with the music I'm writing.

Fast forward to now. Now I'm in the 7 string camp. I have two 27 inch baritones and I'm tuned to A standard. I play heavy rock/metal and sit in that mid tempo area.....Gojira/Tool type tempo. I generally use a little more gain then most as MY tone in my head is on the tighter then average but not surgical with smoothed highs and deep lows with fairly neutral mids.... slightly darker but with some bite. I use more gain as I like it to be in the edge of almost too much yet still articulate with good note separation on chords. I don't like using boosts and the effects I'll be using will be an Eventide Modfactor in front and an Eventide Timefactor in the loop.

So....what's my question? Which of these amps is better at the following:

1. Staying tighter in the low end under gain

2. Better articulation

3. Wider mid range footprint/better sitting mids (not sure how to explain this)

4. More 3d as a whole

5. More percussive

6. Lastly.....less high end sizzle

Also.....this will primarily be used for direct recording hooked up to a Suhr RL or Fryette Power Load into my DAW and I use IR's in the DAW. I will also buy a Diezel FL K100 cab for the 10% of the time when no one is home and I just wanna melt my own face...haha

Thanks in advance to anyone that chimes in. Hopefully I've outlined my wants well enough

 

[belensky]

I wish I could help you, but I have Herbert and use to own VH4. Very curious to hear other opinions

ps. Suhr RL is great piece of gear, I use it with herbert for years.

Before you decide about diezel cab, try ownhammer IR's. They have Diezel FL cab(heavy hitters collection) with Both V30 and K100, they sound very close to real cabs, so it going to give you good perspective on which one you prefer.
I didn't like either speaker and ended up putting 8 Eminence Governor Speakers into two Diezel 4x12 FL cabs.

 

[ja71cam]

Thanks belensky. Yeah I have those Ownhammer Diezel IR's....I have the Heavy Hitters 2 and the Engl from them too. I also have some Lancaster Audio Marshall and Divided by 13 IR's which I didn't really like. I also have the ML Sound Mesa Green IR's which have the 90's Greenbacks I believe....they're decent. I really like Ownhammer's stuff....but......I also have Bogren IR's....Jen's Bogren produced bands like Katatonia, Opeth, Dimmu Borgir, Arch Enemy, etc. His IRs are really good too. They are "mixed" for heavy rhythm guitars.

I've played thru a Diezel can with K100's and liked it. Not a big fan of Vintage 30's.....I do like WGS's retro and veteran 30's though. I liked those better than the Governor's....but I liked the Governor's better then the Vintage 30's too

 

[ja71cam]

I wish I could help you, but I have Herbert and use to own VH4. Very curious to hear other opinions

ps. Suhr RL is great piece of gear, I use it with herbert for years.

Before you decide about diezel cab, try ownhammer IR's. They have Diezel FL cab(heavy hitters collection) with Both V30 and K100, they sound very close to real cabs, so it going to give you good perspective on which one you prefer.
I didn't like either speaker and ended up putting 8 Eminence Governor Speakers into two Diezel 4x12 FL cabs.

One other thing....since we're talking about speakers. If you ever go down the speaker rabbit hole....my brother and I did.....try a WGS Reaper 55(not sure if they still make them actually but you can find them)...out of about 20 or so speakers we both picked that as one of if not the top choice under any mic...57's, 421, 121, Heil PR30, and some others. Also in the V30 camp is the Weber Grey Wolf. I still have that speaker currently in an Avatar Contemporary 2x12 with a WGS Liberator(kinda higher watt ET-65). The Grey Wolf is a good speaker for the V30 flavor.

Also I just realized there's the reply button on here.....didn't do that on my other response for you. First timer here

 

[belensky]

yes, I heard very good things about Reaper, didn't played it yet. If I recall correctly it's WGS take on greenback ?

Regarding Governor vs Veteran 30 vs Retro 30 from what I know
Veteran is similar to Mesa version of V30
Retro is more like Modern Chinese V30 but less spiky
Governor is thing on it's own it's in V30 camp but is not complete knock off. I really like them and I hated K100 in my Diezel 412.

 

[ja71cam]

yes, I heard very good things about Reaper, didn't played it yet. If I recall correctly it's WGS take on greenback ?

Regarding Governor vs Veteran 30 vs Retro 30 from what I know
Veteran is similar to Mesa version of V30
Retro is more like Modern Chinese V30 but less spiky
Governor is thing on it's own it's in V30 camp but is not complete knock off. I really like them and I hated K100 in my Diezel 412.

Yeah the WGS aren't necessarily knock offs just like the Eminence....just different flavors of the Celestions. As far as Vet vs Retro vs V30....I guess you could put it that way....only they're not the same. The Reaper's are in the g12h Anniversary camp. There's the standard Reaper, the Reaper HP(50 watts...I think), and then the Reaper 55(bass cone) which I believe they stopped making.

 

[Ventura]

Fast forward to now. Now I'm in the 7 string camp. I have two 27 inch baritones and I'm tuned to A standard....I don't like using boosts

So....what's my question? Which of these amps is better at the following:

1. Staying tighter in the low end under gain
HAGEN with the Depth is incredible
2. Better articulation
HAGEN is extremely sensitive, to all strings, and playing nuances - but both amps are incredible at this, it's a Diezel thing...they're both amazing
3. Wider mid range footprint/better sitting mids (not sure how to explain this)
HAGEN and D-Moll offer great mids, D-Moll has midcut, which isn't what you want here...you want fuller mids, so ya, Hagen
4. More 3d as a whole
Both are 3D amps for sure...they sparkle and glisten and shimmer and bounce... Love 'em
5. More percussive
As the volumes go up?? HAGEN holds more bass, the D-Moll is fantastic in a band setting as it's not competing with the bass player
6. Lastly.....less high end sizzle
See below
Also.....this will primarily be used for direct recording hooked up to a Suhr RL or Fryette Power Load into my DAW and I use IR's in the DAW. I will also buy a Diezel FL K100 cab for the 10% of the time when no one is home and I just wanna melt my own face...haha

(Might wanna expand the above to see my notes)

Terrific post!! Guess what 2 amps I have stacked on my UberKab - ya, the D-Moll and a Hagen.
From your description - Hagen, hands down, all the way, 100% that is the amp you'll be looking for. The only thing that gets metal-heads into the boner zone with the D-Moll is the midcut, which indeed is excellent for NIN "Last" style tones - razor hot - cutting - but for what you're describing, it's the Hagen 100%of the way.

Sizzle - that's another word associated with the Hagen, sometimes more negatively referred to as "fizzle". Well, if you're running through a G12K100 FL cab, that cab RIGHT there (have the same one personally) is the best cab for this amp to "remove" what could be construed as "fizz". As for sizzle - well - are we talking in the room or with mic placement?? As well, this is an amp best cracked open on the MV - I run my Hagen at 10 o'clock, sometime 11 o'clock with the my channel volumes at 2 o'clock, it's crushingly loud - but it really defines the tone. The MVs are amazing on Diezels, but with it will come a slight degree of compression, and that compression and translate to fizz - or sizz - or whatever the hell ya wanna call it. Mic'ing the amp?? Or running it through a load/interface/IR box?? Just roll back the presence and EQ to flavour from there. It's the presence that needs the most attention when mic'ing or IR'ing this cab for recording purposes.

I too run 7 string ESP NT's for drop/low tunings, but for the most part play Les Pauls with standard E, Drop D, or 1/2 to full step down variations. The Hagen gets the most use. The D-Moll comes in as a blended amp to my Bogners (stereo or multi-tracked).

There ya have it.
Good Luck!!
They're both amazing - but the Hagen is where the penny drops for what you're describing in all matters.
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

(Might wanna expand the above to see my notes)

Terrific post!! Guess what 2 amps I have stacked on my UberKab - ya, the D-Moll and a Hagen.
From your description - Hagen, hands down, all the way, 100% that is the amp you'll be looking for. The only thing that gets metal-heads into the boner zone with the D-Moll is the midcut, which indeed is excellent for NIN "Last" style tones - razor hot - cutting - but for what you're describing, it's the Hagen 100%of the way.

Sizzle - that's another word associated with the Hagen, sometimes more negatively referred to as "fizzle". Well, if you're running through a G12K100 FL cab, that cab RIGHT there (have the same one personally) is the best cab for this amp to "remove" what could be construed as "fizz". As for sizzle - well - are we talking in the room or with mic placement?? As well, this is an amp best cracked open on the MV - I run my Hagen at 10 o'clock, sometime 11 o'clock with the my channel volumes at 2 o'clock, it's crushingly loud - but it really defines the tone. The MVs are amazing on Diezels, but with it will come a slight degree of compression, and that compression and translate to fizz - or sizz - or whatever the hell ya wanna call it. Mic'ing the amp?? Or running it through a load/interface/IR box?? Just roll back the presence and EQ to flavour from there. It's the presence that needs the most attention when mic'ing or IR'ing this cab for recording purposes.

I too run 7 string ESP NT's for drop/low tunings, but for the most part play Les Pauls with standard E, Drop D, or 1/2 to full step down variations. The Hagen gets the most use. The D-Moll comes in as a blended amp to my Bogners (stereo or multi-tracked).

There ya have it.
Good Luck!!
They're both amazing - but the Hagen is where the penny drops for what you're describing in all matters.
Unkle Mo

Thanks Uncle Mo.....I was waiting for you specifically to chime in as I've read most(I think) of your posts about these amps. Hagen it is.....that was where I was leaning. I agree the K100's are good for being "neutral" and not imparting too much character....they just seem to give you what you give them. Same kind of with the CL- 80's and the WGS BL 80's.....only better. I do like the Uberkabs like you use also....and the Fryette's especially with the Fanes. I'm with you in Diezel and Bogner and I also include Fryette as the best amps for me out there. Can't wait to finally join the family!!!

 

[Ventura]

Super happy to be of service and offer whatever help I can.

When it comes to the Diezel amps, they're all amazing. But each one especially in the heavier zones (Herbert, VH4, Hagen, D-Moll) all offer something different. I've listened to both my VH4 and Hagen run through the same sampled track - identical - the VH4 was a little more predominant in the 250-350Hz range, just a very small amount; whereas the Hagen was a little more in the 400Hz-650Hz/1000Hz zone (don't quote me on these, there's a method to my madness). I've always said I can get the Hagen to sound like a VH4, but not the other way around. I could probably do it - but I just love the Hagen as it is. VH4 is a tremendous amp - and would be my go-to choice for pretty much everything BUT lower tunings. After getting to know the Hagen, well, it gets the most play out of the bunch - all styles - all guitars - everything - but where it really shines is the lower tunings when I venture in that zone. It holds its tone REALLY well, never farts out, and the low-end stays ROCK solid man. This is where the accent of the mids-difference comes in compared to the VH4 perhaps. I've played drop tunings on the VH4, and it sounded pretty phenomenal, but on the Hagen?? It's hands down the clear winner. So - likely - the slight EQ variation native to the Hagen is to accommodate lower tunings, but you don't HAVE to play lower tunings to get the most out of the amp. Hope that makes sense??

D-Moll is a beast. I'm surprised they're not more prevelant an amp - it's killer!! It's a solid stand-alone amp and if push came to shove and that was the only amp I had, I'd not be crying. But we're all lucky to have a couple of the things we love. The D-Moll does have a Herbert'esque flavour to it - for sure - and the mid-cut is brutal; that's the industrial metal tone 100%. But the range? The full on experience "compared" to a Hagen?? It's not there. As a stand alone amp "without" having a Hagen or whatnot to compare it to - it is absolutely amazing, and would work well with any and all tunings, but the focus on the low-end isn't as full and forceful as the Hagen (or the Herbert). It is an absolutely excellent amp on its own - just not as potent when compared side by side to it's bigger brothers. Making sense??

Anyway - there it is - hope you enjoy. I've run a MXR M108S in the switchable serial loop - I've A/B'd it with my VH4, by giving it a slight tweak in the aforementioned mids, it sounds identical. Where it differs is feel. VH4 is very thick, I've gotten away with some slop in my playing, even though it's super tight and pretty dry (but not lacking 3D punch); the Hagen is a WALL of punch, but it's got some space in that wall where mistakes will be amplified - it's not as compressed - but offers all the gain - so, it's a slicker greasier playing amp that shows your slop; and it plays everything from standard tunings down to baritone/ERG, and ALL channels are used all the time!! VH4 is that mid-rich Diezel signature tone - love it - just never seem to get off Ch.3!! D-Moll is a beast unto itself, but I'm spoiled - so with it - I blend an XTC or Shiva to really get things cooking. Amazing cleans, amazing crunch, amazing hi-gain, and amazing mid-cut brootz, and decent low-end "to a point". Herbert - only ever played a Mk.1 and while it was a beautiful amp, it wasn't my cup of tea. Some swear by it - and rightfully so - but I never gelled with it. Oddly enough I like my D-Moll way more than the Herbert and the D-Moll is supposed to be the Herbert offspring, go figure. Herbert's got MASSIVE lows, but I found it never held my place in the mix - sounded great in the room - everything - but man, dialling it in against other players or band context was maddening.

/end rant.

Good luck with the Hagen, all of it can easily be tweaked if you're running through an IR packed DAW for sure, especially how it blooms when the MV gets pushed up. Any fizzle will be compensated for by lower tunings, if not using lower tunings just tweak your IR or focus on the 1000Hz, 650Hz, 450Hz, zone - the "Presence". Mic placement with whatever software/IR your using will also come in handy to totally dial it in (ie TwoNotes, Ox, etc)

Peace
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

Awesome info as always. Now that I'm not just lurking I may bug you from time to time for your opinion. I've wanted the Hagen for some time and have always been intrigued by the Dmoll. This will be a rare occasion that I can spend this kind of money on an amp at this point. I was originally looking at used Dmolls for the price point then started thinking screw it I'll buy new....then I really said screw it and figured maybe I'll just buy a new Hagen....which is what it's gonna be now.

What you're saying makes sense about the Hagen vs VH4 regarding lower tunings. I would guess because the Hagen's mids are more towards the upper range and the VH4s maybe toward lower mids then maybe that's why the Hagen handles lower tunings and 7/8 string better. I would imagine that the lower the tuning the more your naturally invading the low mids and bass. So maybe by having the centered frequency of the mids a little higher it allows the natural lowness of the 7/8's- tunings to breath and the tone of the amp isn't fighting it. It's also nice to hear that the Hagen isn't as forgiving. Not only does that make you have to play better (always a plus in my book) but also usually means more dynamics are had....also a big plus in my book. But I wouldn't expect it to alter standard tunings....you may just dial them in a little different.

Once I get the Hagen then I may end up buying a couple different pickups too. I know you like the BKP Holy Diver....I've wondered about that one....but I haven't really dug the few BKP's that I've tried. I used SD JB's forever in Les Pauls....then I switched to a Lundgren Sucker Bucker in a Les Paul Custom a few years back.....neat pickup. But with my 7's it's different. I've got an Agile Septor 727 with EMG 707's...which will stay that way. And then I recently bought a Halo Merus 7 with an Evertune bridge....jury's still out kind of with that one but overall I like it. It came with a set of BKP True Grits but I didn't care for the bridge at all. I put a Dimarzio D Activator in it and it's pretty good....but.....it's a little too bass heavy and seems to a little flat in the mids....almost scooped. But.....I'm not playing it thru anything near what the Hagen will be. All I have currently is a 5153 50 watt head (my brothers that was collecting dust....and I've never been a big fan of the 5150 series....owned 3 over the years) and an Avatar Contemporary 2x12 with a Weber Grey Wolf and a WGS Liberator. I've got a Rivera Rick Crusher to run it into my interface but mostly I've been just using a Diezel VH4-2 pedal into my DAW and then running a power amp plugin and then the IR's. It works fine for noodling and writing but it's not the same as having a great amp.... obviously. I'm not crazy about the Rock Crusher either. Seems the Suhr RL or Fryette Power Load both have much better sounding loads for running direct. I don't like the Rivera as an attenuator either.....really messes with the tone. Anyway......just super pumped to be able to upgrade my gear. Oh yeah....I've seen you describe the Hagen as "greasy" in a few threads and I do think I know what you mean. It's not just about the tone or sound of the amp but how it interacts with your playing dynamics......my brother and I have called it "velcro" to describe what I think is the same thing. It's almost like the gain and saturation is stuck on your fingers as your playing. Greasy....Velcro.... It's all good shit

 

[Ventura]

All good man!!

I'm a huge fan of BKPs, and I have to say, lately, I've been loving the Rebel Yells the most - I've outfitted a few of my Lesters with the RYs now as they're - for me - exactly what I wanna hear. Diezel tend to like moderate output pups - it's just been something I've noticed personally, but also noticed echoed from various other players of Diezel amps. I have to run my guitars through a number of different amps, not "just" Diezel, and have to say they really do like "moderate" output pickups. When I installed my RYs, I knew they were a bit hot, but for whatever reason, they work (for me, this is not an endorsement to these pups in particular other than my own personal preferences and choices) REALLY well with the Diezel heads too. I often use a couple different EQs in my chain - front, looped, behind - whatever. When I started using my RYs, I didn't need my EQ on - at all - it sounded *that* good. Hence the reason I've gone with loading them into a few of my fave guitars. ANYWAY - pickups are personal preference - but my experience is that moderate output is best, across the board, with the exception of these RebelYells. But get your amp FIRST, get to know it FIRST, and take time to dial it in.

As for load-boxes, just picked up the CaptorX-16ohm and for what it is at the price it is?? Fucking incredible. I've used a number of DI/IR/load boxes in the past and just took a hard pass on them for a few years - they never got me what I wanted - but these new ones coming out - whether TwoNotes CaptorX, or the Ox, or whatever, they're insanely good. I love cabinets (bad obsession right?? of ALL THE THINGS TO SPEND CASH ON, the biggest goddamned things ya can - 4x12s...fuck!!), but with the recent tech coming out of UA and TwoNotes, and even Suhr - the need for multiple cabs is getting stifled, thankfully. As the sound I'm getting with, for instance, the CaptorX, is really fkn excellent and it responds almost as if for real - so, saves me buying a warehouse of 4x12s ?????? - and also saves me the hassle of the soundroom space/place I need to crank those things up to get them to their sweet-spot only to then have to mic 'em and screw with 'em and tweak 'em and fine tune 'em etc.

Presence on the Hagen is VERY rich. It's the difference between sizzle and fizzle at low volumes.
Master Volume works amazingly well, sounds great in the room, but VERY tricky at low volumes to mic - compression translates to fizz.
So, either crank it and mic it, or loadbox/IR and crank it, EQ to flavour, and boom - you've got yer track.
Haven't screwed around too much with tubes - likes Chinese HG pres, I use a EiYugo PI, but will likely revert back to LPS, 77s have pretty sharp top end, EL34s really bring out the mids, low end is equally punishing with either tube-set. But likely won't translate to mic/recording as it does from the room experience - just sayin...it's subsonic feeling.

There it is man, Hagen's a beast but it won't make a shitty player sound good LOL. It'll inspire you to get better no matter how good you are because it makes you aware of your slop. Don't take that the wrong way - it has taught me much and I love the tone it gives me in the meantime.

Lemme know if ya have any questions - I'll be outta here for a while but always browsing.
Peace
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

All good man!!

I'm a huge fan of BKPs, and I have to say, lately, I've been loving the Rebel Yells the most - I've outfitted a few of my Lesters with the RYs now as they're - for me - exactly what I wanna hear. Diezel tend to like moderate output pups - it's just been something I've noticed personally, but also noticed echoed from various other players of Diezel amps. I have to run my guitars through a number of different amps, not "just" Diezel, and have to say they really do like "moderate" output pickups. When I installed my RYs, I knew they were a bit hot, but for whatever reason, they work (for me, this is not an endorsement to these pups in particular other than my own personal preferences and choices) REALLY well with the Diezel heads too. I often use a couple different EQs in my chain - front, looped, behind - whatever. When I started using my RYs, I didn't need my EQ on - at all - it sounded *that* good. Hence the reason I've gone with loading them into a few of my fave guitars. ANYWAY - pickups are personal preference - but my experience is that moderate output is best, across the board, with the exception of these RebelYells. But get your amp FIRST, get to know it FIRST, and take time to dial it in.

As for load-boxes, just picked up the CaptorX-16ohm and for what it is at the price it is?? Fucking incredible. I've used a number of DI/IR/load boxes in the past and just took a hard pass on them for a few years - they never got me what I wanted - but these new ones coming out - whether TwoNotes CaptorX, or the Ox, or whatever, they're insanely good. I love cabinets (bad obsession right?? of ALL THE THINGS TO SPEND CASH ON, the biggest goddamned things ya can - 4x12s...fuck!!), but with the recent tech coming out of UA and TwoNotes, and even Suhr - the need for multiple cabs is getting stifled, thankfully. As the sound I'm getting with, for instance, the CaptorX, is really fkn excellent and it responds almost as if for real - so, saves me buying a warehouse of 4x12s ?????? - and also saves me the hassle of the soundroom space/place I need to crank those things up to get them to their sweet-spot only to then have to mic 'em and screw with 'em and tweak 'em and fine tune 'em etc.

Presence on the Hagen is VERY rich. It's the difference between sizzle and fizzle at low volumes.
Master Volume works amazingly well, sounds great in the room, but VERY tricky at low volumes to mic - compression translates to fizz.
So, either crank it and mic it, or loadbox/IR and crank it, EQ to flavour, and boom - you've got yer track.
Haven't screwed around too much with tubes - likes Chinese HG pres, I use a EiYugo PI, but will likely revert back to LPS, 77s have pretty sharp top end, EL34s really bring out the mids, low end is equally punishing with either tube-set. But likely won't translate to mic/recording as it does from the room experience - just sayin...it's subsonic feeling.

There it is man, Hagen's a beast but it won't make a shitty player sound good LOL. It'll inspire you to get better no matter how good you are because it makes you aware of your slop. Don't take that the wrong way - it has taught me much and I love the tone it gives me in the meantime.

Lemme know if ya have any questions - I'll be outta here for a while but always browsing.
Peace
Unkle Mo

We'll talk tube rolling another time then. I use to have a box of older pre's....mostly 12ax7's and a few 12at7's. Gave them all away to friends or they stayed in the amps they were in when I sold them. Gonna have to buy some more ....I like rolling tubes. Had some old Mullards, RFT's, RCA's, had 2 Amperex Bugle Boys, Jan Phillips, etc. My favorite V1 tube for most amps was the old GE short grey plate 12ax7's.....awesome tube....a little darker....not as crisp and defined as some....but sounded oh so right....to my ears. We'll talk again after I get the Hagen....should be just a few weeks

 

[Ventura]

get the amp first and put it through its paces - the only thing you may wanna swap out at first is the PI to an LPS, but it's not mandatory.

just get her thumping and get to know 'er.

ROCK TF ON!!!!

 

[dirtyfunkg]

I want to chime in. I've demoed a Hagen, own a D-Moll, and am a Fryette/VHT-head at heart, so I think we come from similar(ish) places.

The one thing I want to refute with Ventura is the mid-cut function on the D-Moll. I actually use it as a mid boost for leads. If you turn the mid cut intensity knob down and crank the level, it acts as a mid boost as opposed to a cut.

Also, FWIW, I seem to get pretty strong compliments from guys I play with around the D-Moll that I don't get from my Fryettes, and it's not a name recognition thing (drummers seem to really like the D-Moll for some reason). I think it has to do with the note definition and compression which gives that "3D" kind of sound in the room.

I can't really speak to specific comps between the D-Moll and Hagen except that, as I remember it, they are pretty different overall.

I will say that between my CLX, Sig:X and D-Moll, the D-Moll gets the least usage, but I think that may be a style thing. For the better part of ten years my right hand has been trained on Fryettes, so the D-Moll always takes a little playing adjustment before I feel at home. I have also been playing my Strats a lot more and doing less super high gain stuff lately, so the CLX and Sig are a lot more flexible to excel.

Lastly--and this is purely subjective--I'd recommend buying used at market rates. It gives the flexibility to flip and not lose much (if any) money in the event you don't still love the amp after the honeymoon wears off.

 

[ja71cam]

I want to chime in. I've demoed a Hagen, own a D-Moll, and am a Fryette/VHT-head at heart, so I think we come from similar(ish) places.

The one thing I want to refute with Ventura is the mid-cut function on the D-Moll. I actually use it as a mid boost for leads. If you turn the mid cut intensity knob down and crank the level, it acts as a mid boost as opposed to a cut.

Also, FWIW, I seem to get pretty strong compliments from guys I play with around the D-Moll that I don't get from my Fryettes, and it's not a name recognition thing (drummers seem to really like the D-Moll for some reason). I think it has to do with the note definition and compression which gives that "3D" kind of sound in the room.

I can't really speak to specific comps between the D-Moll and Hagen except that, as I remember it, they are pretty different overall.

I will say that between my CLX, Sig:X and D-Moll, the D-Moll gets the least usage, but I think that may be a style thing. For the better part of ten years my right hand has been trained on Fryettes, so the D-Moll always takes a little playing adjustment before I feel at home. I have also been playing my Strats a lot more and doing less super high gain stuff lately, so the CLX and Sig are a lot more flexible to excel.

Lastly--and this is purely subjective--I'd recommend buying used at market rates. It gives the flexibility to flip and not lose much (if any) money in the event you don't still love the amp after the honeymoon wears off.

Thanks for the input. I really think I'd be happy with either...hell I'd be happy with another Fryette. Normally the Fryette amps have been my choice.... however I want more saturation at this point. Another thing that's made me decide on the Hagen at this point is the 4 independent channels.....more options. And I'm with you as far as buying used. I typically have always bought used thru Guitar Center so that I can easily hand it back if it's not what I want.......but now that works for new with them also.....and even Sweetwater. With used though I always buy all new tubes and bias it.....so I'm out the cost of the tubes if I don't like it. So this time I'll end up buying new because if the return policies. The other good thing is that I will most likely be driving down to Florida to my brothers for Xmas and should have the amp before then. He has a Pitbull UL, Bogner 20th anniv XTC, and a few others.....so I'd be able to put the Hagen up against them. Also.....when I get the amp I'll be able to get my old Deliverance 120 back from my friend that I sold it to and run them against each other as well. But you make great points and I appreciate the feedback

 

[Ventura]

I want to chime in. I've demoed a Hagen, own a D-Moll, and am a Fryette/VHT-head at heart, so I think we come from similar(ish) places.

The one thing I want to refute with Ventura is the mid-cut function on the D-Moll. I actually use it as a mid boost for leads. If you turn the mid cut intensity knob down and crank the level, it acts as a mid boost as opposed to a cut.

100% fact regarding the mid-UP capabilities of the "mid-cut" switch, absolutely one can do that. But jesus I just loved the pure-industrial sinister grind of the "mid-cut" doing that metal'esque "mid-cut" thing. If ya know what I mean.

D-Moll is NO slouch, I hope I didn't give that vibe off. Like I said - the 2 amps I use the most are currently stacked atop of one another and that's the D-Moll and the Hagen, running through either an UberKab or Diezel FL K100 412 - I like the UberKab a bit better for flavour... But obviously the K100 is better for recording

Let us know when the eagle has landed, and as for Fryette?? Most underrated amp out there IMHO - incredible amps, incredible cabs. Seriously great gear

 

[ja71cam]

100% fact regarding the mid-UP capabilities of the "mid-cut" switch, absolutely one can do that. But jesus I just loved the pure-industrial sinister grind of the "mid-cut" doing that metal'esque "mid-cut" thing. If ya know what I mean.

D-Moll is NO slouch, I hope I didn't give that vibe off. Like I said - the 2 amps I use the most are currently stacked atop of one another and that's the D-Moll and the Hagen, running through either an UberKab or Diezel FL K100 412 - I like the UberKab a bit better for flavour... But obviously the K100 is better for recording

Let us know when the eagle has landed, and as for Fryette?? Most underrated amp out there IMHO - incredible amps, incredible cabs. Seriously great gear

I definitely understood what you were saying about the Dmoll before.....and that it's no slouch. In your original response you gave me exactly what I was looking for as far as my pointed questions regarding the two. And I'm confident that the Hagen is the right choice for this purchase. Realistically.....I could buy any Diezel, Fryette, and an XTC or Uberschall and make any of them work. But the Diezel sound is what I'm looking for now. I also decided to just go ahead and order a Diezel FL K100 2x12 with the Hagen. At some point down the road I'll probably pick up a used Dmoll.....and probably another Deliverance. Hell.....when I borrow my old D120 from my buddy I may try to see if he'll sell it back to me for what he paid me for it......which was criminal. I sold him the head and a Fat Bottom 4x12 for...............................$1200.

 

[Ventura]

I definitely understood what you were saying about the Dmoll before.....and that it's no slouch. In your original response you gave me exactly what I was looking for as far as my pointed questions regarding the two. And I'm confident that the Hagen is the right choice for this purchase. Realistically.....I could buy any Diezel, Fryette, and an XTC or Uberschall and make any of them work. But the Diezel sound is what I'm looking for now. I also decided to just go ahead and order a Diezel FL K100 2x12 with the Hagen. At some point down the road I'll probably pick up a used Dmoll.....and probably another Deliverance. Hell.....when I borrow my old D120 from my buddy I may try to see if he'll sell it back to me for what he paid me for it......which was criminal. I sold him the head and a Fat Bottom 4x12 for...............................$1200.

Damn, an FL-K100 212 is gonna be SO fine!! Love K100s - *especially* with the Hagen. Nice purchase!!

And a FB and D120 for $1200 - dear gawd man, lemme know next time you feel like selling.....anything ???

Peace & Powerchords!
Mojo

 

[dirtyfunkg]

I definitely understood what you were saying about the Dmoll before.....and that it's no slouch. In your original response you gave me exactly what I was looking for as far as my pointed questions regarding the two. And I'm confident that the Hagen is the right choice for this purchase. Realistically.....I could buy any Diezel, Fryette, and an XTC or Uberschall and make any of them work. But the Diezel sound is what I'm looking for now. I also decided to just go ahead and order a Diezel FL K100 2x12 with the Hagen. At some point down the road I'll probably pick up a used Dmoll.....and probably another Deliverance. Hell.....when I borrow my old D120 from my buddy I may try to see if he'll sell it back to me for what he paid me for it......which was criminal. I sold him the head and a Fat Bottom 4x12 for...............................$1200.

LOL totally get it.

Want a 1+?

I bought a D120 and FB412 6 years ago for $1000, AND the D120 had an insert FX loop added already so I could run 4CM at that time (with my old GSP1101). This was over Craigslist and wasn't some old grandma who had no idea what she was doing, but I felt like I was ripping the guy off. That said, he advertised at $1K, and I guess I was the only one that came calling... I didn't try to negotiate down even further.

 

[ja71cam]

LOL totally get it.

Want a 1+?

I bought a D120 and FB412 6 years ago for $1000, AND the D120 had an insert FX loop added already so I could run 4CM at that time (with my old GSP1101). This was over Craigslist and wasn't some old grandma who had no idea what she was doing, but I felt like I was ripping the guy off. That said, he advertised at $1K, and I guess I was the only one that came calling... I didn't try to negotiate down even further.

It was about 5 years ago I sold mine.....and yeah the market was soft back then....plus I only paid $700 for the head and $450 for the cab....plus a re-tube....so I wasn't out that much. But they seem to go for a good amount more now