D Moll vs Hagen

[ja71cam]

What are you using for DAW and plugins?? Just curious.

I've used my TF in the front and back of my setup. As I often run a stereo setup, it's been easier to manage up front - albeit I'm in the midst of tear-down on the effects and studio - and will likely attempt stereo delay and reverb in the loop of 2 heads, line level, matching parity/etc - and see how a) it sounds, and b) how to control it. Things are shifting for my setup as of late - the need for sound insulated spaces for my cabs and mics has dropped as my productivity has gone up - all thanks to the new TwoNotes CaptorX (and a blown DAW server that just recently got replaced - which also meant hours of downloads of software, licensing, etc. - backups only do data - not programs). ANYWAY, gameplan is all amps accessible at my desk, with TwoNotes paired to any 1-4 amps at any given time, Clarett8Pre O/I, into my DAW, out to monitors/headphones - all effects accessible at the desk to run series, parallel or whatever, with MIDI tending to those that can be MIDI controlled.

Fun!!

I'm using Studio One. And only using a couple plugins that are in Studio One. I don't really do much for mixing or anything....I have a couple people that will do that for me when it gets to that point. The big issue is I don't have a room that is any good for micing or even monitors....so I just use my Beyerdynamic DT770's and Audio Technica AT 50's. I just have what I need to get my guitar recorded with the Hagen so someone else can mix it. My brother has a full Pro Tools HD setup at his house. Here's a pic of my brother's studio from about a year ago. They just did a complete remodel of their house that took about 6 months....new roof... completely gutted the interior and re built it..... basically paid for a completely new house with extra space. So he's in the process of setting everything back up and tuning and treating the new room.

 

[Ventura]

^^^^ completely understand.

And ya, yer Bro's place kinda looks like the setup I'm working through now - multi-MIDI controllers, DAW screens, etc - but the access to effect pedals, and a patch-bay for all amps to run through the audio I/O

It's a project.

Nice thing is - I can just plug in and play an amp/cab when not in the mood for renos.

The reason I asked about yer set up was the recordings sounded good - you'd mentioned drums - etc - was just keen to know wwhat you used for the add-ons

Anyway - ROCK ON!!!!!
Peace

 

[ja71cam]

^^^^ completely understand.

And ya, yer Bro's place kinda looks like the setup I'm working through now - multi-MIDI controllers, DAW screens, etc - but the access to effect pedals, and a patch-bay for all amps to run through the audio I/O

It's a project.

Nice thing is - I can just plug in and play an amp/cab when not in the mood for renos.

The reason I asked about yer set up was the recordings sounded good - you'd mentioned drums - etc - was just keen to know wwhat you used for the add-ons

Anyway - ROCK ON!!!!!
Peace

I wish I had the space to get into it like you and my brother. But....I'm just super stoked with my new gear....it'll get me going in the right direction. Thanks for the props about the clips. I really don't know what I'm doing.....I just turn stuff on and twist knobs until it sounds decent to me. I'm putting a clip here again.... shocker....I might be doing this to you guys for awhile...haha. This clip is the middle section of a song I'm working on. The drums this time are not a loop. The insane Travis Orbin from Darkest Hour/Periphery wrote them....I just put his midi file into EZ Drummer and use a John Tempests kit and then use a couple plugins. The guitar is just raw Hagen again. I'm including pics instead if explaining it all. This is what the Hagen does when you dime the channel volume. It's channel 3 and I'm including a pic if the amp settings as well as the IR's I'm using. I used a different IR for left and right panned tracks. I was thinking some kind of ambient lead over some of this part but I'm not that good at leads......so Unkle Mo I'll need you to rip a tripped out lead over it....haha. Also....the droney part is Channel 2 with just an Undulator preset from the Modfactor. Oh yeah....and I also flipped the high pass switch on my interface....pic included.

 

[Ventura]

I wish I had the space to get into it like you and my brother. But....I'm just super stoked with my new gear....it'll get me going in the right direction. Thanks for the props about the clips. I really don't know what I'm doing.....I just turn stuff on and twist knobs until it sounds decent to me. I'm putting a clip here again.... shocker....I might be doing this to you guys for awhile...haha. This clip is the middle section of a song I'm working on. The drums this time are not a loop. The insane Travis Orbin from Darkest Hour/Periphery wrote them....I just put his midi file into EZ Drummer and use a John Tempests kit and then use a couple plugins. The guitar is just raw Hagen again. I'm including pics instead if explaining it all. This is what the Hagen does when you dime the channel volume. It's channel 3 and I'm including a pic if the amp settings as well as the IR's I'm using. I used a different IR for left and right panned tracks. I was thinking some kind of ambient lead over some of this part but I'm not that good at leads......so Unkle Mo I'll need you to rip a tripped out lead over it....haha. Also....the droney part is Channel 2 with just an Undulator preset from the Modfactor. Oh yeah....and I also flipped the high pass switch on my interface....pic included.

You're doing something many people tend not too - rather than getting caught up in the minutiae, you're fkn playing guitar. At the end of the day, it's playing guitar that gives us the skills, not oogling techno shit and pondering mental schematics of design.

/end

 

[Nick2027xl]

I own both only these amps and i would recommend the dmoll based on your requirements.

That said I don't think you'd be unhappy with either.

Really just a question of do you want to spend more to have an additional channel?

 

[ja71cam]

You're doing something many people tend not too - rather than getting caught up in the minutiae, you're fkn playing guitar. At the end of the day, it's playing guitar that gives us the skills, not oogling techno shit and pondering mental schematics of design.

/end

Hey Mo....so..... something interesting that I noticed last night with my Hagen. Not sure if there's something wrong with it or if I uncovered some kind of secret. So what I noticed is happening is that all the preamp controls affect each other through all channels....which I'm not sure should be happening with independent channels. So for example....let's say I'm using CH3.....if I adjust the treble knob on any of the other channels it has an effect on CH3's tone. It does that with any knob...gain, ch volume, treb, mid, bass. Also....the master volumes have different tones....master one is more open and master 2 seems more compressed. Anyway....wanted to reach out to you first before I email Diezel.

I don't think I've ever had a multi channel amp react like this before with independent channels. One thing though........ the sculpting capabilities with this are ridiculous

 

[Ventura]

Never had that happen - could be a preamp bottle - but lemme think on this and screw around on my Hagen and get back to you - I've used the Hagen for a long time and I'd think I'd notice this - soooooo....

Lemme get back to you on this!!

Peace
Mojo

 

[ja71cam]

Never had that happen - could be a preamp bottle - but lemme think on this and screw around on my Hagen and get back to you - I've used the Hagen for a long time and I'd think I'd notice this - soooooo....

Lemme get back to you on this!!

Peace
Mojo

So it was an issue with the tube in V1. Never had that symptom happen before that I can think of. One thing I noticed while fighting to get that tube out is that the V1 tube sits lower in the chassis than any of the others...could barely grab into it. So now I need to order a couple preamp tubes. I'm going to get an LPS for the PI..... any suggestions for the V1 spot? It came stock with a TAD 7025 high grade......the one I put in for now was a non branded one that I took out of a 5153 V1. I also just put a quad of some Preferred Series EL34's from thetubestore....nice bottles

 

[Ventura]

So it was an issue with the tube in V1. Never had that symptom happen before that I can think of. One thing I noticed while fighting to get that tube out is that the V1 tube sits lower in the chassis than any of the others...could barely grab into it. So now I need to order a couple preamp tubes. I'm going to get an LPS for the PI..... any suggestions for the V1 spot? It came stock with a TAD 7025 high grade......the one I put in for now was a non branded one that I took out of a 5153 V1. I also just put a quad of some Preferred Series EL34's from thetubestore....nice bottles

Bingo - preamp tube.

Nice.

I run high-grade Chinese, TAD, Svetlana, or Gold-Lion ECC83 in V1 - amp dependent, and yes, an LPS in the PhaseInverter is always my default.

Your choice - just go with a high-gain low-noise quality tube.

Glad this was sorted.
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

Bingo - preamp tube.

Nice.

I run high-grade Chinese, TAD, Svetlana, or Gold-Lion ECC83 in V1 - amp dependent, and yes, an LPS in the PhaseInverter is always my default.

Your choice - just go with a high-gain low-noise quality tube.

Glad this was sorted.
Unkle Mo

I ended up putting a Preferred series 12ax7 from thetubestore.com in V1 and an LPS in the PI. Also.....I think I'm getting the hang of the IR and tones down better. This riff is on Hagen CH2 with an EQD Plumes OD in front. Guitar is a Halo Merus 7 with Fluence Moderns on the passive mode

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fnnwgmewc1khco/HAGEN_MSHGH.wav?dl=0

 

[Ventura]

I ended up putting a Preferred series 12ax7 from thetubestore.com in V1 and an LPS in the PI. Also.....I think I'm getting the hang of the IR and tones down better. This riff is on Hagen CH2 with an EQD Plumes OD in front. Guitar is a Halo Merus 7 with Fluence Moderns on the passive mode

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fnnwgmewc1khco/HAGEN_MSHGH.wav?dl=0

Got just the naked guitar track?? Would love to hear it on its own.

PreferredSeries 12AX7 - nice - notice a difference with that preamp in V1?? LPS is always a great phase-inverter. I've tried EiYugo and while they're unique and cool and all, they sometimes come across as "saw-toothy" in their wave-form. All psychological of course, as I'm not physically witnessing these waves on a scope - it just feels very square and boxy at times.

ANYWAY - you're gelling nicely with the amp - killer!!

Keep it up!!
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

Got just the naked guitar track?? Would love to hear it on its own.

PreferredSeries 12AX7 - nice - notice a difference with that preamp in V1?? LPS is always a great phase-inverter. I've tried EiYugo and while they're unique and cool and all, they sometimes come across as "saw-toothy" in their wave-form. All psychological of course, as I'm not physically witnessing these waves on a scope - it just feels very square and boxy at times.

ANYWAY - you're gelling nicely with the amp - killer!!

Keep it up!!
Unkle Mo

I did notice a little difference with the PF 12ax7.....I think it has a little more body and a little smoother on the top end of the gain compared to the TAD that came in the amp. I agree the LPS has been a go to for PI......also have used older Jan Phillips, Amperex Bugle Boy, and RFT before in that spot......but will generally go with the LPS as I think it does a better job at feeling like it feeds the Power tubes "cleanly".

Here's your naked guitar track......the slight eq was really to bring a little "presence" in and and also a low pass to cut at 100......so....not much different then the naked version. I can get more "tweaking" out of just changing IR's generally. The IR's on this are a blend of Ownhammer Diesel FL K100 and Zilla 4x12 V30 with no grill cloth. It also sounds really good with a Mesa IR with H30's or Greenbacks......it sounds good with anything really.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55ct7vqvr0roqul/HAGEN_MSHGH_DRY.wav?dl=0

 

[Nick2027xl]

I did notice a little difference with the PF 12ax7.....I think it has a little more body and a little smoother on the top end of the gain compared to the TAD that came in the amp. I agree the LPS has been a go to for PI......also have used older Jan Phillips, Amperex Bugle Boy, and RFT before in that spot......but will generally go with the LPS as I think it does a better job at feeling like it feeds the Power tubes "cleanly".

Here's your naked guitar track......the slight eq was really to bring a little "presence" in and and also a low pass to cut at 100......so....not much different then the naked version. I can get more "tweaking" out of just changing IR's generally. The IR's on this are a blend of Ownhammer Diesel FL K100 and Zilla 4x12 V30 with no grill cloth. It also sounds really good with a Mesa IR with H30's or Greenbacks......it sounds good with anything really.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55ct7vqvr0roqul/HAGEN_MSHGH_DRY.wav?dl=0

What are your settings on the amp for this?

 

[ja71cam]

What are your settings on the amp for this?

Settings are:

Channel 2
Gain 2.5 o'clock
Channel Volume 1 o'clock
Treble 3 o'clock
Mids 2 o'clock
Bass 1.5 o'clock
Deep 1 o'clock
Presence 10 o'clock
Master 10 o'clock

 

[Nick2027xl]

Settings are:

Channel 2
Gain 2.5 o'clock
Channel Volume 1 o'clock
Treble 3 o'clock
Mids 2 o'clock
Bass 1.5 o'clock
Deep 1 o'clock
Presence 10 o'clock
Master 10 o'clock

Thanks for this, will give these settings a try.

Out of interest are yiu recording the head via di?

I started a thread about this but was just wondering if you find the hagen gets really hot when it's used with a load (I'm using two notes). All hooked up correctly etc, no issues with that

 

[Ventura]

Sounds great!! Love my Hagen. But you ALL already knew that

 

[ja71cam]

Thanks for this, will give these settings a try.

Out of interest are yiu recording the head via di?

I started a thread about this but was just wondering if you find the hagen gets really hot when it's used with a load (I'm using two notes). All hooked up correctly etc, no issues with that

I'm using a Suhr RL into my interface and then IR's in the DAW. I haven't have any issue with heat from the amp

 

[Ventura]

Thanks for this, will give these settings a try.

Out of interest are yiu recording the head via di?

I started a thread about this but was just wondering if you find the hagen gets really hot when it's used with a load (I'm using two notes). All hooked up correctly etc, no issues with that

Nothing out of the ordinary given the MV of the amp and the fact it's being run 2-6 hours per session. VH4, D-Moll, Hagen - all through TN CaptorX 16s, they get warm for sure - pretty damn hot - but they do that when plugged into a cab running for the same amount of time at the same MVs just the same.

 

[ja71cam]

Sounds great!! Love my Hagen. But you ALL already knew that

Figured I'd share a vid clip.....just using my phone. I dusted off the 5153 for shit's and giggles. The 5153 is running on the right side of the cab with a Weber Gray Wolf and K100.....the Hagen is on CH4 and running on the left side with a K100 and Weber Silver Bell. Channel 4 on the Hagen is actually similar to the 5153 as far as gain structure....the Hagen is darker(I could have turned the presence up to make it brighter) and also bigger, deeper, thicker, cleaner than the 5153.....hard to really really appreciate it without being in front of the amps. Anyway ....just noodling around with the amps....the EVH is first then Hagen then both together.

 

[Ventura]

ENJOYED THAT!!!!!!