D Moll vs Hagen

[dirtyfunkg]

They sure do.

I think I got my first D60 head in 2012 for $600. That was a saga. Traded that head + $300 for a Mesa Roadster, then traded the Roadster + $300 for a 2011 Fryette Ultra Lead, all within a year. Spend a year with the UL but didn't jive with it like my CLX or Deliverances, so sold it and bought a Mako Mak4 and Fryette 2/90/2 rig, but that was a backbreaker and totally impractical (plus the Mako was super noisy on the 4th channel and I didn't want to go through the trouble to address the issue) so I sold all of that stuff and ended up using that money to get... the D-Moll... for $1450... on craigslist... with the FS7HE floorboard.

The gear flipping scene ain't what it used to be, folks.

 

[Ventura]

It was about 5 years ago I sold mine.....and yeah the market was soft back then....plus I only paid $700 for the head and $450 for the cab....plus a re-tube....so I wasn't out that much. But they seem to go for a good amount more now

that's ridiculously good!!!! christ you'd be losing money not to buy it

 

[fantom]

So....long time lurker finally needing to ask a question. I'm going to be buying one of these amps....so not looking for suggestions of other amps. I've read about these 2 in all the other great posts in this forum and others. I've listened to as many clips as I could find......Ola's clips get me the closest to finding my answer but I figured I'd ask in here because I know there are a few of you that have these amps and know your stuff....plus the Master himself (Peter D) sometimes chimes in.

For some background first. For years I played mainly Les Pauls and I've played/owned many amps and had gotten rid of ALL my gear a few years ago. My last rig that I had was a Fryette Deliverance 120 thru a FB 4x12(p50's) and a Laney GH50 thru a Mesa traditional 4x12 with WGS Reaper 55's in the top and WGS BL 80's in the bottom....ran both together and used my volume knob for "cleanish" tones. The only effects I used was an old Ross Flanger into a Lehle P Split into the front end of both amps and a TC Nova Repeater in the loop of the Laney. It sounded huge and was a tone monster.

My favorite amps that I've owned or had good access to are the Deliverance, Pitbull UL, Bogner XTC and Uberschall. I've played the VH4 and Einstein and liked them both for different reasons. I've always liked the thickness and gain structure of Diezels as well as their low noise. Simply put....a Diezel is a Diezel and it's time for me to buy one.....and I know it's what I want for MY tone at this point with the music I'm writing.

Fast forward to now. Now I'm in the 7 string camp. I have two 27 inch baritones and I'm tuned to A standard. I play heavy rock/metal and sit in that mid tempo area.....Gojira/Tool type tempo. I generally use a little more gain then most as MY tone in my head is on the tighter then average but not surgical with smoothed highs and deep lows with fairly neutral mids.... slightly darker but with some bite. I use more gain as I like it to be in the edge of almost too much yet still articulate with good note separation on chords. I don't like using boosts and the effects I'll be using will be an Eventide Modfactor in front and an Eventide Timefactor in the loop.

So....what's my question? Which of these amps is better at the following:

1. Staying tighter in the low end under gain

2. Better articulation

3. Wider mid range footprint/better sitting mids (not sure how to explain this)

4. More 3d as a whole

5. More percussive

6. Lastly.....less high end sizzle

Also.....this will primarily be used for direct recording hooked up to a Suhr RL or Fryette Power Load into my DAW and I use IR's in the DAW. I will also buy a Diezel FL K100 cab for the 10% of the time when no one is home and I just wanna melt my own face...haha

Thanks in advance to anyone that chimes in. Hopefully I've outlined my wants well enough

I went through a similar dilemma earlier this year. I ended up buying the first Diezel that came up used so I could limit my risk. In my case, a Hagen. I also have a GP3 and 2/90/2, which is a Pitbull UL for the most part.

Answers for the Hagen from my point of view. I can't compare to a DMoll

1. The Hagen only stays tight if you have the deep knob under 10:00-11:00. If you crank the deep knob even to 12:00, the low end is loose and very noticeable when run direct through a Torpedo with pretty much any IR. At first I tried fixing this with multiband, but I now just realize to cut the deep knob. This is also true when running it through a frontloaded Diezel cab. In other words, I understand why many people say the low end is loose, but it can also be controlled with the deep knob. It really comes down to if you can dial in enough "thump" without overloading the 150-300 hz range in your mix.

2. The Hagen is articulate. I wouldn't worry about this. It just isn't as a dry as a VHT, but you will definitely hear any mistakes.

3. Definitely watch the videos. The midrange is the defining point on the Hagen. This one seems like a reasonable representation. Lasse also has some good videos. You mentioned Ola already.

The other points are hard to answer as the terms are subjective to me.

The other thing to note: the Hagen is more sensitive to different pickups and guitars than other amps I have played. So one guitar might sound great, and then a different one needs some adjusting. Pickups like the Aftermath that I usually can't stand due to honkiness sound reasonable through a Hagen.

Regarding the volume, the master volumes are not very linear. It goes from bedroom level to loud very quick, similar to a Triple Rectifier in terms of adjusting it. There are two master volumes, and I leave one dialed in for bedroom level. The channel volumes are much more linear, but I prefer the tone with the channel volumes around 12:00-1:00, so I deal with the master volume range being a bit too finicky.

Bottom line, I kept it so far. I'm not sure if I will use a Hagen by itself in a mix, but I would definitely blend it. If I had to use it alone in a mix or a band, I would be more than happy with it. I haven't tried to record anything serious with it yet though....and pandemic means I haven't played with a drummer using it. But at home, I've used it far more than I have ever used the VHT. It has been the go-to amp just for doodling when I have a chance.

 

[ja71cam]

I went through a similar dilemma earlier this year. I ended up buying the first Diezel that came up used so I could limit my risk. In my case, a Hagen. I also have a GP3 and 2/90/2, which is a Pitbull UL for the most part.

Answers for the Hagen from my point of view. I can't compare to a DMoll

1. The Hagen only stays tight if you have the deep knob under 10:00-11:00. If you crank the deep knob even to 12:00, the low end is loose and very noticeable when run direct through a Torpedo with pretty much any IR. At first I tried fixing this with multiband, but I now just realize to cut the deep knob. This is also true when running it through a frontloaded Diezel cab. In other words, I understand why many people say the low end is loose, but it can also be controlled with the deep knob. It really comes down to if you can dial in enough "thump" without overloading the 150-300 hz range in your mix.

2. The Hagen is articulate. I wouldn't worry about this. It just isn't as a dry as a VHT, but you will definitely hear any mistakes.

3. Definitely watch the videos. The midrange is the defining point on the Hagen. This one seems like a reasonable representation. Lasse also has some good videos. You mentioned Ola already.

The other points are hard to answer as the terms are subjective to me.

The other thing to note: the Hagen is more sensitive to different pickups and guitars than other amps I have played. So one guitar might sound great, and then a different one needs some adjusting. Pickups like the Aftermath that I usually can't stand due to honkiness sound reasonable through a Hagen.

Regarding the volume, the master volumes are not very linear. It goes from bedroom level to loud very quick, similar to a Triple Rectifier in terms of adjusting it. There are two master volumes, and I leave one dialed in for bedroom level. The channel volumes are much more linear, but I prefer the tone with the channel volumes around 12:00-1:00, so I deal with the master volume range being a bit too finicky.

Bottom line, I kept it so far. I'm not sure if I will use a Hagen by itself in a mix, but I would definitely blend it. If I had to use it alone in a mix or a band, I would be more than happy with it. I haven't tried to record anything serious with it yet though....and pandemic means I haven't played with a drummer using it. But at home, I've used it far more than I have ever used the VHT. It has been the go-to amp just for doodling when I have a chance.

Thanks for the input. I hadn't seen that video......def like the Hagen much better. As far as the deep know and keeping the low end tight I kinda figured that. I would imagine the higher you bring the deep knob up the more you may need to dial back the bass knob and find a happy balance between the two. Also in the IR or the mix I would also imagine you wouldn't drive the deep up too much since I believe it's around 120hz. Again....thanks for the help

 

[Ventura]

Josh cops some killer tones outta the Hagen in his 3 part videos - check 'em out too if ya haven't already.

Josh & Hagen

Peace
Mojo ?

 

[ja71cam]

Josh cops some killer tones outta the Hagen in his 3 part videos - check 'em out too if ya haven't already.

Josh & Hagen

Peace
Mojo ?

Yeah he's great.....I've seen his videos....great player

 

[Ventura]

haven't heard anything yet on your newly acquired Hagen - didja get it??

keep us posted

 

[ja71cam]

haven't heard anything yet on your newly acquired Hagen - didja get it??

keep us posted

Not yet....soon. Should be in a few weeks. I thought it would've been before Xmas but the money I'm waiting for didn't make it yet. I will def post NAD pics when it arrives

 

[ja71cam]

Not yet....soon. Should be in a few weeks. I thought it would've been before Xmas but the money I'm waiting for didn't make it yet. I will def post NAD pics when it arrives

The Hagen has been ordered....should be here next Wednesday. I also ordered the front loaded 4x12 with K100's. The 2x12's were out of stock and they had a demo 4x12 at Sweetwater for $120 off so I grabbed it. Bought an Audient ID44 interface too....needed to upgrade. Post coming soon

 

[Ventura]

The Hagen has been ordered....should be here next Wednesday. I also ordered the front loaded 4x12 with K100's. The 2x12's were out of stock and they had a demo 4x12 at Sweetwater for $120 off so I grabbed it. Bought an Audient ID44 interface too....needed to upgrade. Post coming soon

K100 FL - fave Diezel cab outta the lot!!

Gonna be a killer setup Dude!!
Congratz!!
UnkleMo

 

[ja71cam]

The Hagen has landed. Here's my review.....the sound in my head....the end....haha. My God it's such a great amp....Peter Diezel thank you for doing what you do.

 

[Ventura]

The Hagen has landed. Here's my review.....the sound in my head....the end....haha. My God it's such a great amp....Peter Diezel thank you for doing what you do.

SWEEY BABY JESUS!!!!

WHAT a GLORIOUS looking setup!!!

That a K100 front-load cab!?!!??!?

Channel 2, gain at 2 o'clock, GIVE 'ER!!! And with them 7 string beasts ya got?!?!?! Ch.3 for the chugg-a-thon and Ch.4 for liquid-leads

HELL YEAH!!!
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

SWEEY BABY JESUS!!!!

WHAT a GLORIOUS looking setup!!!

That a K100 front-load cab!?!!??!?

Channel 2, gain at 2 o'clock, GIVE 'ER!!! And with them 7 string beasts ya got?!?!?! Ch.3 for the chugg-a-thon and Ch.4 for liquid-leads

HELL YEAH!!!
Unkle Mo

Yes K100 for the 4x12

I did a little snip clip after about 5 minutes of turning knobs. It's raw.....no additional eq's or any processing....it's probably a little blown out sounding if you play through regular computer speakers but if you use good headphones or monitors it should be good......with very little tweaking it'll be just what I was looking for.

Signal chain is:
Agile Septor 727 with EMG 707
Hagen - Suhr RL - Audient iD44 interface -
Ownhammer Diezel FL K100 IR with SM57 & Royer 121 blend.

It's just one riff that starts with CH3 then CH4 then a mix of CH3 panned left CH4 panned right. Both channels are dialed in exactly the same. I know it needs some tweaking but it's my NAD excitement clip....haha

 

[Ventura]

Yes K100 for the 4x12

I did a little snip clip after about 5 minutes of turning knobs. It's raw.....no additional eq's or any processing....it's probably a little blown out sounding if you play through regular computer speakers but if you use good headphones or monitors it should be good......with very little tweaking it'll be just what I was looking for.

Signal chain is:
Agile Septor 727 with EMG 707
Hagen - Suhr RL - Audient iD44 interface -
Ownhammer Diezel FL K100 IR with SM57 & Royer 121 blend.

It's just one riff that starts with CH3 then CH4 then a mix of CH3 panned left CH4 panned right. Both channels are dialed in exactly the same. I know it needs some tweaking but it's my NAD excitement clip....haha

Yep, that sounds like a raw pissed off Hagen to me... This particular clip shows the openness of the tone, its teeth, the rawness. Of course as you know - with a twist of some knobs you can get into that rubbery VH4 Ch.3 compressed zone very easily.

Sorry to say it again, but the Hagen - once ya figure it out - is an incredible fkn amplifier. My fave outta the lot. It just takes time to learn its nuances.

Mega congratz on the amp AND the K100 cab - you're set - gameover - I dunno about you, but for me?? After I went full-circle on all manner of amps, boutique designs, product of the month, etc etc etc. - I just ended up right back where I started - Diezel and Bogner. I have no GAS. Weird, but true.

Keep us in the loop man - this is epic.
Stoked for ya!!
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

Yep, that sounds like a raw pissed off Hagen to me... This particular clip shows the openness of the tone, its teeth, the rawness. Of course as you know - with a twist of some knobs you can get into that rubbery VH4 Ch.3 compressed zone very easily.

Sorry to say it again, but the Hagen - once ya figure it out - is an incredible fkn amplifier. My fave outta the lot. It just takes time to learn its nuances.

Mega congratz on the amp AND the K100 cab - you're set - gameover - I dunno about you, but for me?? After I went full-circle on all manner of amps, boutique designs, product of the month, etc etc etc. - I just ended up right back where I started - Diezel and Bogner. I have no GAS. Weird, but true.

Keep us in the loop man - this is epic.
Stoked for ya!!
Unkle Mo

I agree....no gas after this. I haven't gassed for many amps in a few years. Played or owned the ones I did gas for enough to end it. The only thing I might gas for is an original Sunn Model T.....for those times you want to through a fuzz infront of something and loose your mind in doom....haha.

And as you've mentioned before....channel 2 with the mids maxed and gain about 2 o'clock is Marshall-esque territory. You could play 80's hair metal or prog all day with that. Here's a quick clip for anyone wondering about that. Let me know if I captured it right Unkle Mo.

 

[Ventura]

I agree....no gas after this. I haven't gassed for many amps in a few years. Played or owned the ones I did gas for enough to end it. The only thing I might gas for is an original Sunn Model T.....for those times you want to through a fuzz infront of something and loose your mind in doom....haha.

And as you've mentioned before....channel 2 with the mids maxed and gain about 2 o'clock is Marshall-esque territory. You could play 80's hair metal or prog all day with that. Here's a quick clip for anyone wondering about that. Let me know if I captured it right Unkle Mo.

AH!!!!!!! You nailed the 80s vibe in Ch.2 for sure.... Sounded primo!! Makes me howl - this amp - it does A LOT!! I'd not relegate Ch.2 solely as "80s hair metal" as I'm sure you know, but this knocked me off my seat - I never go for that 80s vibe and here ya pulled it outta the ass with Ch.2 no problem KILLED IT!!

Awesome amp. Crushing it man, LOVE IT!!! Keep the vibe alive!!!
I'll be crunching mine up later tonight....
Stoked.

And BTW, great lil' clips you're throwing out here - awesome to see and listen too - THANK YOU for doing this!!
Unkle Mo

 

[ja71cam]

AH!!!!!!! You nailed the 80s vibe in Ch.2 for sure.... Sounded primo!! Makes me howl - this amp - it does A LOT!! I'd not relegate Ch.2 solely as "80s hair metal" as I'm sure you know, but this knocked me off my seat - I never go for that 80s vibe and here ya pulled it outta the ass with Ch.2 no problem KILLED IT!!

Awesome amp. Crushing it man, LOVE IT!!! Keep the vibe alive!!!
I'll be crunching mine up later tonight....
Stoked.

And BTW, great lil' clips you're throwing out here - awesome to see and listen too - THANK YOU for doing this!!
Unkle Mo

Thanks man.

I agree about channel 2....it can cover a lot of ground. It made me decide to buy an OD pedal to play with. It's also a great channel for atmospheric stuff....like with some heavy modulation and delay. I ran my Eventide Modfactor through the front end and used a delay plugin on my DAW and almost lost my shit. Channel 2 is a really really good base channel to build off with pedals as well as standing by itself

 

[Ventura]

Thanks man.

I agree about channel 2....it can cover a lot of ground. It made me decide to buy an OD pedal to play with. It's also a great channel for atmospheric stuff....like with some heavy modulation and delay. I ran my Eventide Modfactor through the front end and used a delay plugin on my DAW and almost lost my shit. Channel 2 is a really really good base channel to build off with pedals as well as standing by itself

Similar ears & tastes it seems - I'm an Eventide fanboi - ModFactor, PitchFactor, TimeFactor - and if ya look at my posts on the Hagen, I mention the breadth of Ch.2 in many of points of interest.

It's a HOOOOGE channel.

Love it!!
Rock TF On Brethren!!

 

[ja71cam]

Similar ears & tastes it seems - I'm an Eventide fanboi - ModFactor, PitchFactor, TimeFactor - and if ya look at my posts on the Hagen, I mention the breadth of Ch.2 in many of points of interest.

It's a HOOOOGE channel.

Love it!!
Rock TF On Brethren!!

I'll have a Timefactor in a couple days. I had a TC Nova System but gave it away. I like my modulation before the amp and time based in the loop. I also had an old Ross Flanger with the vacuum cleaner plug/cord from the 70's.....awesome pedal.....but I gave it to my brother because he really wanted it and I wasn't playing at the time. I'll have a full song draft done sometime this week with drums and guitar.....maybe I'll post that one here too

 

[Ventura]

I'll have a Timefactor in a couple days. I had a TC Nova System but gave it away. I like my modulation before the amp and time based in the loop. I also had an old Ross Flanger with the vacuum cleaner plug/cord from the 70's.....awesome pedal.....but I gave it to my brother because he really wanted it and I wasn't playing at the time. I'll have a full song draft done sometime this week with drums and guitar.....maybe I'll post that one here too

What are you using for DAW and plugins?? Just curious.

I've used my TF in the front and back of my setup. As I often run a stereo setup, it's been easier to manage up front - albeit I'm in the midst of tear-down on the effects and studio - and will likely attempt stereo delay and reverb in the loop of 2 heads, line level, matching parity/etc - and see how a) it sounds, and b) how to control it. Things are shifting for my setup as of late - the need for sound insulated spaces for my cabs and mics has dropped as my productivity has gone up - all thanks to the new TwoNotes CaptorX (and a blown DAW server that just recently got replaced - which also meant hours of downloads of software, licensing, etc. - backups only do data - not programs). ANYWAY, gameplan is all amps accessible at my desk, with TwoNotes paired to any 1-4 amps at any given time, Clarett8Pre O/I, into my DAW, out to monitors/headphones - all effects accessible at the desk to run series, parallel or whatever, with MIDI tending to those that can be MIDI controlled.

Fun!!