Diezel Herbert Mark III vs Mesa Triple Mutli-Watt vs Bogner UU

[mwc]

I made a comparison of the Diezel and Bogner here. Diezel Herbert Mk3 would be my overall choice. It is giant and tight. I ended up trading my Uber Ultra for a new Bogner Helios Eclipse.

 

[Zado]

I made a comparison of the Diezel and Bogner here. Diezel Herbert Mk3 for me though. I ended up trading the Uber Ultra for a new Bogner Helios Eclipse.

Damn that Herbert sounded tight as smurf anus

 

[angelspade]

I made a comparison of the Diezel and Bogner here. Diezel Herbert Mk3 would be my overall choice. It is giant and tight. I ended up trading my Uber Ultra for a new Bogner Helios Eclipse.

Herbert sounds great...But, also I really love the way the mids respond on that XTC. Certainly not as "mean" as the Herbert or Ultra but a very nice quality and texture to it.

 

[glpg80]

Herbert sounds great...But, also I really love the way the mids respond on that XTC. Certainly not as "mean" as the Herbert or Ultra but a very nice quality and texture to it.

I definitely like the Herbert mkiii over the UU here. It really outlines the qualities @braintheory stated he hated about his UU IMO. Just this cardboard type of gain structure that once you hear it you can’t unhear it. I also love where the diezel is voiced sonically.

 

[mwc]

I definitely like the Herbert mkiii over the UU here. It really outlines the qualities @braintheory stated he hated about his UU IMO. Just this cardboard type of gain structure that once you hear it you can’t unhear it. I also love where the diezel is voiced sonically.

Yes I had the same feeling with the UU, it had a mix quality to it where it sounded filtered to my ears. I had a hard time getting it to open up like the XTC and Helios Eclipse can do. I am still interested in trying an older Uberschall.

 

[braintheory]

Yes I had the same feeling with the UU, it had a mix quality to it where it sounded filtered to my ears. I had a hard time getting it to open up like the XTC and Helios Eclipse can do. I am still interested in trying an older Uberschall.

Yes very filtered/cardboardy. Some guys don’t mind it, but I’ve grown to hate amps with that sound. None of the earlier Uberschall’s or any other Bogner’s I’ve tried period were like that, so it was strange for me to hear the Ultra get that sound, but it still has the overall Uber flavor, just a filtered version of it. The early revision Uber’s were way better to me. Didn’t like the Twin Jet or Blue

 

[braintheory]

I definitely like the Herbert mkiii over the UU here. It really outlines the qualities @braintheory stated he hated about his UU IMO. Just this cardboard type of gain structure that once you hear it you can’t unhear it. I also love where the diezel is voiced sonically.

Yes, the Herbert’s don’t have that cardboardy sound. I prefer it to the UU. I did still remember liking the MK1 version more, but never compared different Herbert’s directly (only compared them with other amps). It’s still honestly not my favorite amp for its niche and didn’t love it feel-wise either, but if we’re comparing to what’s in that clip it would be my choice too. You may find it comes off smooth and polished sounding vs your other amps (I would), but it could be a nice contrast. They’re not also the most dynamic amps to some expressive nuances in playing, but for a lot of the styles of metal guys tend to use it for it seems to not be as needed

 

[glpg80]

Yes I had the same feeling with the UU, it had a mix quality to it where it sounded filtered to my ears. I had a hard time getting it to open up like the XTC and Helios Eclipse can do. I am still interested in trying an older Uberschall.

I think you’ll find that beyond the one trick pony initial wow factor exists a lot of overlap with the XTC boosted. The XTC offers way, way more sonically than just doing metal.

 

[glpg80]

Yes, the Herbert’s don’t have that cardboardy sound. I prefer it to the UU. I did still remember liking the MK1 version more, but never compared different Herbert’s directly (only compared them with other amps). It’s still honestly not my favorite amp for its niche and didn’t love it feel-wise either, but if we’re comparing to what’s in that clip it would be my choice too. You may find it comes off smooth and polished sounding vs your other amps (I would), but it could be a nice contrast. They’re not also the most dynamic amps to some expressive nuances in playing, but for a lot of the styles of metal guys tend to use it for it seems to not be as needed

You do make a good point - many of the amps I have are on the extremes of aggression and gain. I’d argue probably the best even without spending dumb 5 figure money. I do lack a Europe voicing and the diezel would compliment the collection without overlap quite easily. Diezel is also the obvious choice over Engl for build quality and reliability.

I’m still torn between a Mesa triple multi-watt or the Herbert mkiii. Ideally I’d just add both but it comes down to personal preferences at this point. They each do their own thing well and there’s no sonic negatives - just preferences.

 

[Beyond Black]

I definitely like the Herbert mkiii over the UU here. It really outlines the qualities @braintheory stated he hated about his UU IMO. Just this cardboard type of gain structure that once you hear it you can’t unhear it. I also love where the diezel is voiced sonically.

Sam’s description is spot on. I had an UU and flipped it in a few days. It’s a very synthetic and inorganic sounding/feeling amp. Cool amp if you’re into that sort of thing I guess. Trust me when I say it’ll sound/feel like a modeler compared to your Marshalls and Coli.
IMO a good Recto is mandatory and recommended, especially if you’ve never had one.

 

[Emg77]

Yes, the Herbert’s don’t have that cardboardy sound. I prefer it to the UU. I did still remember liking the MK1 version more, but never compared different Herbert’s directly (only compared them with other amps). It’s still honestly not my favorite amp for its niche and didn’t love it feel-wise either, but if we’re comparing to what’s in that clip it would be my choice too. You may find it comes off smooth and polished sounding vs your other amps (I would), but it could be a nice contrast. They’re not also the most dynamic amps to some expressive nuances in playing, but for a lot of the styles of metal guys tend to use it for it seems to not be as needed

Interesting comment regarding the dynamics with Herbert. It’s is quite dynamic to the picking hand in my opinion. For me it gives me back what I put in. Light touch and it cleans up considerably . Dig in and it roars ! I dig it!

 

[Emg77]

You do make a good point - many of the amps I have are on the extremes of aggression and gain. I’d argue probably the best even without spending dumb 5 figure money. I do lack a Europe voicing and the diezel would compliment the collection without overlap quite easily. Diezel is also the obvious choice over Engl for build quality and reliability.

I’m still torn between a Mesa triple multi-watt or the Herbert mkiii. Ideally I’d just add both but it comes down to personal preferences at this point. They each do their own thing well and there’s no sonic negatives - just preferences.

It’s funny, I go into each piece of gear with a mind set of “something different “ then I end try to make everything sound the same!! Guitars , amps etc!! I’m trying appreciate “something different “ and stick with it! Lol

 

[braintheory]

Interesting comment regarding the dynamics with Herbert. It’s is quite dynamic to the picking hand in my opinion. For me it gives me back what I put in. Light touch and it cleans up considerably . Dig in and it roars ! I dig it!

I guess it depends maybe what amps it’s being compared to. Vs many modern high gainers I can see that (including maybe also the UU), but imo vs amps like Wizards, Naylor’s, IIC+, vintage 2203/4’s or good modded ones like Cameron’s, or a Rev C I find it feels comparatively dull/not lively and not as receptive to a lot expressive nuances in playing like the variations in pick attack, milking overtones out of vibratos, string rakes, etc. It just to me lacks some of these shades or details around the notes (hard to describe) and for me that’s where a lot of the magic happens in making some gear special and more inspiring to play through vs others more homogenous and less interesting for me

 

[mwc]

I think you’ll find that beyond the one trick pony initial wow factor exists a lot of overlap with the XTC boosted. The XTC offers way, way more sonically than just doing metal.

Agree, the XTC is amazing. Out of my 8 amps it's a close tie between the XTC and Herbert as my overall favorite. I did a boosted test of the XTC 101b here as well as an XTC vs VH4 here .

 

[Emg77]

I guess it depends maybe what amps it’s being compared to. Vs many modern high gainers I can see that (including maybe also the UU), but imo vs amps like Wizards, Naylor’s, IIC+, vintage 2203/4’s or good modded ones like Cameron’s, or a Rev C I find it feels comparatively dull/not lively and not as receptive to a lot expressive nuances in playing like the variations in pick attack, milking overtones out of vibratos, string rakes, etc. It just to me lacks some of these shades or details around the notes (hard to describe) and for me that’s where a lot of the magic happens in making some gear special and more inspiring to play through vs others more homogenous and less interesting for me

I understand what you’re saying. For me I’m not trying to compare it to vintage amps. It certainly doesn’t have the bloom of a vintage Marshall, or Mark. Actually, nothing modern I’ve tried does! Where the notes swell almost on their own.

 

[braintheory]

I understand what you’re saying. For me I’m not trying to compare it to vintage amps. It certainly doesn’t have the bloom of a vintage Marshall, or Mark. Actually, nothing modern I’ve tried does! Where the notes swell almost on their own.

Yeah I like that sort of complexity to the sound. A lot of that is what kept me going as a gearhead and is what wows me most. I find the Wizard Hell Razor and Naylor have some of that too as modern examples, but I guess the sound of those amps may arguably be considered less modern and the early Recto’s, which is ‘90’s. I actually think the Hermansson’s in their own way have it too and I find them quite modern, but more specific sounding. I also would prefer the Herbert to most modern high gainers, although I think the Megalith Beta in some ways for me better (even a bit more modern though imo), but sadly hard to come by

Some non-metal/high gain recent amps like the Gjika, Alessandro’s, and Ronin I actually find to be among the most 3D/complex sounding amps I’ve heard (including the vintage stuff) besides a real Dumble of course, but maybe it’s also that they’re going for a more vintage type of sound, but just have some modern attributes by being made today and with some of today’s components. Although it may not seem like it, that old/dated sound that most vintage gear has actually is not really my cup of tea, but ultimately if I have to choose between a dated but 3D high quality sound vs a sterile/2D modern sound I’m choosing the former almost everytime. Ideally I want both modern and 3D, but it seems to be a very tough task

 

[ChuggNorris]

I guess it depends maybe what amps it’s being compared to. Vs many modern high gainers I can see that (including maybe also the UU), but imo vs amps like Wizards, Naylor’s, IIC+, vintage 2203/4’s or good modded ones like Cameron’s, or a Rev C I find it feels comparatively dull/not lively and not as receptive to a lot expressive nuances in playing like the variations in pick attack, milking overtones out of vibratos, string rakes, etc. It just to me lacks some of these shades or details around the notes (hard to describe) and for me that’s where a lot of the magic happens in making some gear special and more inspiring to play through vs others more homogenous and less interesting for me

Are you playing guitar or using the guitar as a training rifle in drill camp? Sounds kinda noisy what you're describing here. ?

 

[the4thlast1]

I have had all 3 amps that you’re considering here just recently. The Mesa was Triple Rev G. I went and listened to Septicflesh to get an idea of the tones you’re shooting for. I would say the UU or the Herbert would certainly get you there.

The MK3 Herbert is what I ended keeping. For me, and this is coming from playing in a band mix, it is the more versatile amp and sits in the mix almost perfect. It rivals my other guitar players MB Roadster. It has more mid content and more presence than the previous versions. A tighter low end as well. In contrast the UU was almost, dare I say, too much, in the mix! But that was me trying to get it to cover multiple genres. So, if you’re just dialing it in to specific tones. Either will get you there! View attachment 316734

Are you saying the UU was cutting more in the mix than the others?

 

[Emg77]

Are you saying the UU was cutting more in the mix than the others?

Yeah! It was way out front ! I certainly like to be present in the mix. It was the mids I was trying to control. There is so many options to tailor the tone. It can be very mid heavy and some cases in the wrong spot to my ear in the mix of the band. I didn’t spend too much time trying to dial it in. I moved on from it as I was struggling to make it work for multiple genres. But for heavy tight chugs it was a monster. I will also say that I also struggle as stated before in this thread with non organic tones. ie… Engl , EVH etc. It had a bit of that going on. The earlier revisions were much more organic.

 

[braintheory]

Agreed on all. I didn't try it in a mix, but it did seem more upfront and cutting than most amps I compared it with actually (including the Rev 1 Uber) and did have a lot of power and punch, which made it chug well, but my Hell Razor KT150 I felt was better in that department still (I know it costs a lot more than the UU, but it is what it is)