Dime 40 watt Warhead mini amps.....Did the designers achieve old Randall RG100ES feel and tones?

[TheGreatGreen]

I have the regular one and use it like you’re saying, I thought using the line out with the mini would do the same thing, I was gonna grab the mini but not if it’s like that

If you used it like that and set the mimiq mini to 100% wet and into a separate poweramp from your main amp, that could kinda work. It wouldn't be as good as the regular mimiq because you wouldn't be getting two independent amps generating distortion in parallel, which is how the real magic works with these things, but it would definitely be better than a simple one-side-only delay. So if you only have one preamp and two poweramps, and use a mimiq mini so the mini is only outputting the effected signal, then yeah the mimiq mini could be a good option in that specific scenario.

edit: I just watched OIa's video and it turns out this is exactly how he's using the mini pedal, post-preamp with Dry on 0 and Effect on 10. Honestly I wonder why they even put a "Dry" knob on the mini pedal. Seems like it should have only come with Tightness and Level controls, and internally hardwired to only output the effected signal.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

The delays have to be two separate mono delays in stereo.

I don't see how that makes any difference. No matter how many delays you'd use to emulate a double tracked effect, those delays are still just outputting the exact same signal as the original signal, just delayed a bit.

Actually, using more than a single delay in a stereo rig to achieve a doubling effect doesn't really make sense. You'd just be gumming up the signal.

If you're talking about a VH Balance kind of thing where you have a center dry line and separate left and right signals where the delays are applied, that's entirely different because in that case the key ingredient isn't delay, it's pitch shift, which is incidentally what the mimiq dynamically applies to the signal along with some delay at different amounts over time to do its thing.

The whole thing with the mimiq is that the effect it applies to the effected half of the signal isn't static like a standard delay. It changes as you play, depending on how you play. That's why it sounds real.

 

[Techdeth]

I understand the studio using them to add layers to Dimes tone but I respectfully disagree with your statement. His core tone was the Randall's, having owned a number of Randalls and the entire Dime rig through the years.

As good at these little mini Warhead sound the real RG's just punch more.

Here's a lowly Randall RG80 gettin it done from Domicidal Cover YT channel.

All I hear is that wizard on top on CFH and vulgar . After buying all of dimes gear and getting a wizard it was like a light bulb went off . It was like there it is !
Idk . I found the rest of Dimes gear to be garbage . Except the warhead 4x12 . I sold getting bit the can and the wizard

 

[Exo-metal]

I don't see how that makes any difference. No matter how many delays you'd use to emulate a double tracked effect, those delays are still just outputting the exact same signal as the original signal, just delayed a bit.

Actually, using more than a single delay in a stereo rig to achieve a doubling effect doesn't really make sense. You'd just be gumming up the signal.

If you're talking about a VH Balance kind of thing where you have a center dry line and separate left and right signals where the delays are applied, that's entirely different because in that case the key ingredient isn't delay, it's pitch shift, which is incidentally what the mimiq dynamically applies to the signal along with some delay at different amounts over time to do its thing.

The whole thing with the mimiq is that the effect it applies to the effected half of the signal isn't static like a standard delay. It changes as you play, depending on how you play. That's why it sounds real.

Read about the Haas effect. A dry signal in a wet dry wet makes this epic. There is no pitch in the Haas effect.

 

[harddriver]

All I hear is that wizard on top on CFH and vulgar . After buying all of dimes gear and getting a wizard it was like a light bulb went off . It was like there it is !
Idk . I found the rest of Dimes gear to be garbage . Except the warhead 4x12 . I sold getting bit the can and the wizard

I haven't found a single video of a Wizard doing Dime tone on the internet..........I'm not saying they probably can't get close or sound good but tubes do not clip and overdrive like the FET's did in the old Randalls especially when Dime was pushing the front end with the 6 band and Furman PQ3's and PQ4's.

Here's a Wizard MCII doing some metal for comparison...

Here's 1993 Wizard Metal


If you can post a Wizard video that has all the nuances of an old Randall and smokes the grind, crunch of a solid state Randall RG100ES with Dimes signal chain I will retract my statement but that video I posted is Dimes core tones, you can't deny it.

I can get close with a VFE standout driving my Splawn Modded 2203 but it's still has a bit of tubey give to the response and feel no matter how tight I get it.

I'm totally on board with them using it in the studios to layer the tones, but by the late 90's and early 2000's don't you think Dime would have had stacks of Wizards behind him instead of old Randall RG100ES's and Century 200's if he was getting a better tone that he liked from the Wizards that he had used in the studio?

Dime's tone is like EVH's tone......it all in how the gear was used to get their specific tones.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Read about the Haas effect. A dry signal in a wet dry wet makes this epic. There is pitch in the Haas effect at all.

The Haas effect is exactly what I described earlier when I said "set one side to 100% wet and anywhere from like 3-20 ms of digital delay." It can sound really cool, sure, but it only ever sounds like a "wider" version of the regular sound, and it fails the moment the track is summed to mono, or the two guitar lines are panned together. The mimiq actually sounds like two humans playing the same line (or more accurately, one human with a time machine playing different takes of the same part at the same time) in a way the Haas effect can't duplicate.

edit: found a video detailing the Haas effect. The guy goes over every point I've made in the thread about it, both the benefits and pitfalls:

 

[harddriver]

Here's Wes Hauch using a PRS Archon 100 to compare to the Randall....the Randall wins hand down for me anyway.

 

[Exo-metal]

The Haas effect is exactly what I described earlier when I said "set one side to 100% wet and anywhere from like 3-20 ms of digital delay." It can sound really cool, sure, but it only ever sounds like a "wider" version of the regular sound, and it fails the moment the track is summed to mono, or the two guitar lines are panned together. The mimiq actually sounds like two humans playing the same thing at the same time in a way the Haas effect can't duplicate.

edit: found a video detailing the Haas effect. The guy goes over every point I've made in the thread about it, both the benefits and pitfalls:

No, you are describing shifted mono, the video is not. That pedal cannot replicate a wet dry wet with two mono delays shifted L 20ms and R shifted 17ms and a dry center. FYI I love shifted mono too...does the mimic use a synthetic pitch effect?

 

[RaceU4her]

I haven't found a single video of a Wizard doing Dime tone on the internet..........I'm not saying they probably can't get close or sound good but tubes do not clip and overdrive like the FET's did in the old Randalls especially when Dime was pushing the front end with the 6 band and Furman PQ3's and PQ4's.

If you can post a Wizard video that has all the nuances of an old Randall and smokes the grind, crunch of a solid state Randall RG100ES with Dimes signal chain I will retract my statement but that video I posted is Dimes core tones, you can't deny it.

I can get close with a VFE standout driving my Splawn Modded 2203 but it's still has a bit of tubey give to the response and feel no matter how tight I get it.

I'm totally on board with them using it in the studios to layer the tones, but by the late 90's and early 2000's don't you think Dime would have had stacks of Wizards behind him instead of old Randall RG100ES's and Century 200's if he was getting a better tone that he liked from the Wizards that he had used in the studio?

Dime's tone is like EVH's tone......it all in how the gear was used to get their specific tones.

The only mention of wizards ive ever seen was the one guitar world article where Vinny mentioned them, and I think he said they added just a little for clarity. Dimes tone never really changed much from I Am the Night, I don’t know if wizards do back that far?

 

[TheGreatGreen]

No, you are describing shifted mono, the video is not. That pedal cannot replicate a wet dry wet with two mono delays shifted L 20ms and R shifted 17ms and a dry center. FYI I love shifted mono too...

If you think what I described is different than what the video describes, and you think either one doesn't properly describe the Haas effect, then you don't know what the Haas effect is.

The Haas effect is what happens when your brain hears "a mono sound played in stereo with one side shifted in time slightly, usually under 40 ms" and perceives it as a "wider" version of one sound as opposed to two different sounds. This is exactly what I described in this thread, and exactly what the video I posted describes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

Again, for the third time, it can sound cool, but if it's not listened to under ideal conditions, it phase cancels itself and fails. Adding a center dry line and two slightly delayed signals doesn't change anything. Still the exact same phenomena occurring that will fail in the exact same way.


edit: Actually, now that I think about it, doing it the way you're describing, blending a center dry with both a delayed 20ms hard panned left and delayed 17ms hard panned right signal, would build phase cancellation right into your tone even if everything was listened to under ideal conditions, so... yeah man I don't really know what to tell ya from here.

 

[RaceU4her]

The mimiq actually sounds like two humans playing the same line (or more accurately, one human with a time machine playing different takes of the same part at the same time) in a way the Haas effect can't duplicate.

That’s how I describe it, it’s like adding yourself as the second guitar player if you were to do a half stack on each side of the stage, or pan each rig L/R when recording.

 

[thegame]

One does not go to war with 40 watts. Unless you're in Kazakhstan.

 

[Exo-metal]

If you think what I described is different than what the video describes, and you think either one doesn't properly describe the Haas effect, then you don't know what the Haas effect is.

The Haas effect is what happens when your brain hears "a mono sound played in stereo with one side shifted in time slightly, usually under 40 ms" and perceives it as a "wider" version of one sound as opposed to two different sounds. This is exactly what I described in this thread, and exactly what the video I posted describes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

Again, for the third time, it can sound cool, but if it's not listened to under ideal conditions, it phase cancels itself and fails. Adding a center dry line and two slightly delayed signals doesn't change anything. Still the exact same phenomena occurring that will fail in the exact same way.


edit: Actually, now that I think about it, doing it the way you're describing, blending a center dry with both a delayed 20ms hard panned left and delayed 17ms hard panned right signal, would build phase cancellation right into your tone even if everything was listened to under ideal conditions, so... yeah man I don't really know what to tell ya from here.

Have you tried it bc you may be surprised. This is the core of my rig. I hate chorus bc of the rate function. When I discovered this concept you think I don't understand I learned I don't like the picture moving around that is inherent to chorusing. I use this with a harmonizer mixed extremely low for my sound. There is no phase cancelation bc they are at different set points.

 

[WarHed]

I have a mini mimiq - to use it properly you put it on the left or right after a mono to stereo splitter and set it to 100% wet. I use my delay pedal which receives a mono in and outputs left and right channels.
Then the mimiq works the same as the bigger one which would otherwise do the job of the mono - stereo split as well.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Have you tried it bc you may be surprised. This is the core of my rig. I hate chorus bc of the rate function. When I discovered this concept you think I don't understand I learned I don't like the picture moving around that is inherent to chorusing. I use this with a harmonizer mixed extremely low for my sound. There is no phase cancelation bc they are at different set points.

I actually messed around with it in my DAW for a second because I wanted to hear it for myself. When I tried it in the DAW, dry down the middle, 20ms L and 17ms R, the phase cancellation was pretty bad even if I just barely mixed in that delay at all.

However if you used those delays with a harmonizer to do pitch shifting, yeah that would change the whole sound completely. You didn't mention that! That would avoid the phase cancellation. I bet it would sound really cool.

Sometimes I'll do something similar myself. If I just want a big wide sound and not a full on doubler, I'll do the VH Balance thing and setup a post-amp stereo pitch shift, so I'll hard pan separate left and right signals by like +-6 ct or so, but I won't use any delay. Makes guitars sound huge! It still doesn't sound like two different takes from one player being hard panned and played together like the mimiq though. Seriously man you should try one, I bet you'd get a kick out of it.

 

[Exo-metal]

My rig is old school racks and old Marshall's, no daw or computer shit. I'm sure it is a far different experience.

 

[Techdeth]

I haven't found a single video of a Wizard doing Dime tone on the internet..........I'm not saying they probably can't get close or sound good but tubes do not clip and overdrive like the FET's did in the old Randalls especially when Dime was pushing the front end with the 6 band and Furman PQ3's and PQ4's.

Here's a Wizard MCII doing some metal for comparison...

Here's 1993 Wizard Metal


If you can post a Wizard video that has all the nuances of an old Randall and smokes the grind, crunch of a solid state Randall RG100ES with Dimes signal chain I will retract my statement but that video I posted is Dimes core tones, you can't deny it.

I can get close with a VFE standout driving my Splawn Modded 2203 but it's still has a bit of tubey give to the response and feel no matter how tight I get it.

I'm totally on board with them using it in the studios to layer the tones, but by the late 90's and early 2000's don't you think Dime would have had stacks of Wizards behind him instead of old Randall RG100ES's and Century 200's if he was getting a better tone that he liked from the Wizards that he had used in the studio?

Dime's tone is like EVH's tone......it all in how the gear was used to get their specific tones.

All of the highs you hear in cowboys and vulgar us the wizard sitting on top
You’re hearing the wizard . Terry date and Rick said they always used a tube amp to get the killer sharp highs . Terry date explained it all in guitar world . The wizard is right on top of the Randall so they could cut through the mix . You’re hearing it on trendkill . They recorded the wizard at a quiet volume too . They said on like 2 the wizard did something special before the tubes would break up